dagga you are the cancer

Great story.

Alternative version: This is 80% politics. Nobody is even attacking Laf, which would have been my first order of business if I was them.

Find a larger alliance to merge into for a set or two. Then split off and do your own thing.

It will be worth it in the long run.

I find that rich of you given the crap I read in your little PR stunt about LaF where you imply folks like LCN were secretly doing LaF's work to destroy SOL. As if SOL never provoked LCN in the least. What a load of revisionist crap (see below quote of yours).

Many of us see through these PR stunts as attempts to try to eliminate LaF from the game and some of us veterans think that's foolish given how few people play than used to play. I want to see efforts to rid the game of cheating and I like the way EE has really taken a stand on it. But using the veil of an anti-cheating crusade to destroy an alliance that isn't all cheaters strikes me as foolish.

Look at SOL's collective rhetoric (expressed individually). You have DH whining about people moving to "clean alliances." Give me a fn break. SOL had an RDer in them once upon a time. Does that qualify SOL for termination? Clearly DH tinks Ruth is the epitomy of all that is evil and so is that an excuse to try to eliminate LCN from the game? EVO? I remember MD catching cheaters before in their ranks. So now all of a sudden we have a new axis of power who determines who should keep playing and who should be eliminated from the game. All because a handful of douchebags cheated.

Yah, if people support this quest then they're foolish. LaF should open their logs. Hanlong should be banned forever. And cheaters should be dealt with swiftly. But the guilt by association, judge and jury duty that you guys are trying to pull by public fiat is patently ridiculous.

That's my rant.

Too bad a smear campaign almost always involves lies and/or misused information. The actions taken here are known to be true, so its not a smear campaign, it is an understandable guilt by association situation, that, if you had half a brain, is even acknowledged by the new LaF heads.

Don't join any clan using boxcar :)

If HLW did:

- view other alliances site's posts on BOXCAR
- view other alliances site's posts on EVOHOSTING
- view other allainces site's posts on whatever they are on

Then I really can't see how it's different than what has been going on this game since organized groups began. Hacking, spies, steal logins, pretending to be another person, those are exterior gameplay that doesn't involve the game itself. Alliances can decide to take IN GAME ACTIONS against HLW for that, and may put the blame on LaF as well.

But that is just fine and dandy IMO.

If HLW gained access through a password given by TC, to Admin Forums and Private Message.

Then that is an Admin management issue, of not closing an access after a person has left the team. Sure, you can say HLW shouldn't have, but it's not much more different that the usual espionge that happens between alliances. (Previous cases of private messages being read on alliance hosting sites by spies who have moved up the chain into leadership, even PRESIDENT, has occured)

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I'm not defending HLW here, just saying, these accusations, should be separated from the accusations of game manipulation, and viewing other countries spyops with out using a turn.

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TC giving Admin access to HLW to BOXCAR is just a meh, unethical to other alliances, but in no way 'cheated' in the game. You can hate and flame the guy all you want, and never trust him again, but he didn't 'cheat' by sharing Admin access to BOXCAR.

TC giving Admin access to HLW to EE is dead wrong, unethical to the game.

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Again, the country viewing / editing is the only thing that I think the Admins should focus on, and bringing the other things along seems part of a smear campaign against LaF.

At some point repeated leaders of an alliance being outted as cheaters becomes "the alliance" and not "people". My logic is not flawed. While I do not advocate LaF disbanding or being tagkilled they politically rightfully SHOULD be isolated right now. SOF is propping them up by standing by them. People say Son Goku isn't a cheater, I sure as hell don't know that. I know people said the same thing about the new leader of LaF every other time someone got ousted for being a cheater and yet their leadership started cheating again.

i think ^ he means don't condone cheating :P

This isn't actually about LaF. It's about SOF who supported and continues to support LaF while claiming to hold themselves to the highest ethical standards, which is a logically inconsistent statement.

Maybe other people do. But I don't. I'm just calling a spade a spade and pointing out that LaF leaders do this fluff constantly and then the alliance tries to play it off as rogue members before appointing a new cheater to run the alliance and start it over again.

how does that make sense orkin... read martians post.

This whole thing is starting to spiral out of control.

2 people in LaF cheat, and besides the gifting there is no proof they did anything different than what Slagpit was doing for evo.

granted they cheated and should be punished I'm not trying to say its not a huge deal. But still...crucifying the rest of LaF players and EVERY tag that is allied to them...does that seem fair to you?