Victim mentality? Oh please. Open your damn eyes. We as a society have come a LONG way towards equality, but it's still not there yet. Bias and racism, whether direct or indirect, are still very real. A minority in the US still starts out at a disadvantage, even if there are more and more exceptions these days.

Although it's easy to completely ignore classism and focus on racism exclusively, which is a huge mistake imo. Unfortunately, classism is the stronger force, and due to a long history of racism and oppression, guess who fills out the ranks of the lower class disproportionately? Yeah, doesn't take a genius to figure that out and make the connection.

It's still true. You gotta be a fluffing idiot to think you can successfully defend yourself against the government with guns.

The government can squash you with its military. That is a fact. They do not fear your gun. They fear the political consequences of killing you. It is politics which keeps the government from crushing you. It is not your guns. If you try to defend your rights with guns, you take away the political consequences of killing you. Your guns don't keep them from killing you. Your guns help them kill you.

Do you not understand how much more powerful the US government is than you? You cannot defeat them through force. Do you realize how completely and incomprehensibly stupid you have to be to believe the falsehoods you're repeating?

Do you think the government cares if you kill a few of their henchmen while they squash you? On the contrary, every pawn of the government that you kill generates more support for government oppression. They do not fear your guns.

Look at what happened with the NYPD. The public was against them. Then a nutcase kills two of them, and the NYPD receives sympathy from the public. Do the leaders mourn the loss of two pawns? Of course not. Do the leaders rejoice at political ammunition that they can use to justify oppression? Of course they do.

Violence plays into the hands of the oppressors. The filthy lie that the second amendment protects us from the government is a lie that plays into the hands of the oppressors. Stop spreading that filthy lie. Stop helping the oppressors.

Ya ya ya, you libs have been waging class warfare for several decades now, I'm happy it worked out for you all's agenda and you've been successfully brainwashed and you now carry the torch to brainwash future generations of clueless people, my dad brought us to this beautiful country with only couple hundred dollars in his pocket and I'm happy to report that we successfully avoided falling victims of liberalism and we are successful contributors to this beautiful country, like us I know hundreds more that made it, I also know thousands that fell victim to liberalism and now hate this country due to the brainwashing they received by people like you.

Good day sir!

Viva liberalism!

The gov cant be everywhere for everyone. Stop with your bullfluff rehash. Guns will never be outlawed in the US. If they are, people like yourself, the ones with the big mouths on a soap box with the big bad clusterfluff of a military behind your back will be killed by people like me that take note. God bless your stupid asses.
This reminds me of you rockman...
http://youtu.be/C7R_emYOchc

This isn't about liberalism, moron. You are trying to claim that everyone has equality of opportunity. That is patently false. Yes, many people have the ability to rise above their environment and succeed beyond expectations, but that doesn't mean it was easy for them. I'm a white, upper-middle class male, and I had it incredibly easy compared to many people out there. I'm smart enough to recognize the advantage I had growing up, and realize that not everyone had it so easy...

And please, stop equating being a 'liberal' in the sense of US politics with 'Liberalism'. The US is incredibly Liberal in the real sense of the word, and it's a damn good thing too.

Why you call me a moron, I didn't call you names other than liberal, you over reacting douchebag.

Overreacting? When you completely misunderstand what I say and use buzzwords to pigeon hole me, I'm going to call you a moron. But hey, please continue to write off everything I say just because you consider me a brainwashed, victimized liberal.

But before you continue, please go read a book and learn the difference between American liberals/conservatives and Liberalism/Conservatism.

And speaking further on the issue of our rights being taken away, I'd love to see what some of you republicans and libertarians think about Citizens United.

Blah blah blah blah, it's all fkn smokescreen gibberish jabbering to turn our attention from what's really going on.

Its because calling someone a liberal is equal to calling someone a libtard. Thats why "liberal" is such a swear word.

But please koh... tell is whats REALLY going on. Is it brainwashing again?

Tella, your being white had very little to do with your opportunities.

Your being upper middle class did. Your parents, and importantly, your being educated, has almost all to do with where you are at today. Not the color of your skin.

and even more-so, your decision in life to finish high school, and further than that college, are why you are where you are at.

The major issue, not being talked about, are the reasons for the correlation of the low class being filed with blacks in the US.
I work with 3 low education, low income blacks and every one of them come from households whose parents couldn't even read. They are working 2 jobs, sometimes 3, to pay for better opportunities for their children. all 3 are also taking basic courses and attend free seminars together to advance their own education, as adults. They see that as the way to change the future for their kids. They are right. Joining gangs, dropping out of high school, committing crimes, are not ways out of the poverty.



but back on topic, i like my guns, thank you very much

Why do I even bother writing anything if people don't read what I write? Did you read what I said about classism being the bigger issue? Or how racism ties into classism?



I'll take this to mean that you don't understand what I wrote.

Are death threats now permitted on AT? Are you another Jared Loughner? Do we need to have you committed to a mental institution?

That would be your first reaction. Twisting something up into something its not. If you can have me committed to a looney bin, i will youtube me eating my own fluff. Punk.

'HERP DERP LIBRULS!~~` OBUMMER KENYAN BIRTH CERT!!! OBUMMERS GON TAKE OUR GUNZ@!!!!@!@@@@ 2nd AMENDMANT!' -heston/sewageusmc/kotg

and lol @ comparing heston to JL.. its a good comparison, both are batfluff cray cray

I get my teenage daughter to translate you and bradens bullfluff.

Well... this is just fox news bullcrap that i hear from you guys. So go rehash more of that and align yourselves with the nuts citizens of the tea party

ITT the fallacy of a 2 party system is displayed in spectacular fasion.

[quote poster=Heston; 34532; 627580][people like yourself... will be killed by people like me [/quote]

Are death threats now permitted on AT? Are you another Jared Loughner? Do we need to have you committed to a mental institution? [/quote]

That would be your first reaction. Twisting something up into something its not. If you can have me committed to a looney bin, i will youtube me eating my own fluff. Punk. [/quote]

Seems like a death threat to me.

At the least, it is very disturbing. You've got a sick sick mind.

Rockman, you're either deliberately being dense, or just don't understand several things that I understand. Let me see if I can provide a list for you.

1. It"s a lot easier for the government to suppress dissent having all the weapons at their disposal and people who are willing to violate the constitution for financial gain/power, etc, than it is for the government to escape oversight and redress in the face of the people if the people are also armed. Someone who relies more on the news than actually getting around and meeting "the people", would see it as "I'm a terrorist" since the government feeds them good pablum about the status of the country. From my perspective, it's quite simple, I took an oath when I enlisted in the military to uphold and defend the constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign, or domestic. Swearing that oath made me responsible for the defense of the constitution and constitutional liberty. Being out of the military only removed the uniform, not the duty.

2. If constitutional liberty survives, then, I'm "NOT" the terrorist then, am I? The winners write the history books, and I don't think that I would paint myself and any compatriots I may have accrued as terrorists as much as I'd paint the potential destroyers of our freedoms as "Tyrants" that needed to be out of power, whether by voting sensibly as the founding fathers intended, or by other means should that become necessary to the survival of the republic.

3. If the tyrants succeed, then, I would be a "terrorist" I suppose. The liberals are really great at changing definitions of words to suit themselves best, so, there we have it.

Once again, the only rights you actually have are the ones you are willing to fight for. That's all there is, and that's the way it is.

If you've been in the military, and you don't think that the military is capable of defeating an armed civilian, then you were a pretty crappy soldier.

I have at least two mods that look for a reason to edit/ban me.
Your ideals regarding guns and peace are invalid in any part of the world. With war talk, comes talk of who will die. I wont pretend with you. You should become a master reiki practitioner and practice on mother earth then give us all a tantric massage. Maybe that will help you feel like your making a positive difference in the world instead sitting around with flat out rediculous ideals and share them on the internet with your thumb up your ass.

How is that I came from a poor white family a have risen to the upper middle class? Hard work - you asshats should try it sometime. The reason I know you have never tried it is because you wouldn't be looking for excuses to exercise your agenda of wealth distribution if you actually worked hard to get where you are today.

If you are referring to the national guard that is used by the states, no one is scared of them. I would be more scared of a pack of hungry fat chick's than I would be of the national guard.

well, the cracker sewageusmc

well, if one white person has upward mobility then that totally shows that everyone has the same opportunities! HAHA Tella, he SHUT YOU DOWN!!111one hahahaha!1!!one!!

It's not about color or class... it is about work ethic. Try walking further to work than your mailbox for your welfare check.

This is where you got it all wrong, Rockman, the military in this case will NOT be on our governments side, I have plenty military members in my family and friends, we covered this subject and the support for our right to bare arms is one that our military fully backs and will turn against government in a heartbeat.

rockman doesnt know the military code apparently. ordrs have to be lawful and moral. there would be large amount of dissension if the government ordered the military against its own civilians, since that is against the constitution.

not to mention that if the last 60 years have taught us anything it is that asymmetrical warfare on the part of a populace fighting for its home ans way of life can hold its own against a well armed and supported military force.

Every one I know in the millitar wouldn't follow orders to disarm citizens because they too own firearms and believe in the 2nd amendment and orders or not will defend it

I personally would have shot anyone who ordered a direct violation of the constitution. I am not the minority either.

Trife constantly cries bigotry while using racial slurs. Delete that fluff, ... even handed mods. Lol.

This thread made my head hurt...thanks

the white jive ass cracker casper ass ma flucker sewageusmc said that it's not about race or color so get over it heston!

just adding shiateposts to a shiatethread, tis all :D

shutup whitey.

and i saw your post before you made the edit, ya fag.

i hereby propose the mods rename heston to saltines

because that's one salty ass cracker right there

lol... if you work hard and keep your nose to the grindstone, you'll be in the upper middle class in no time.

is that it?

what do you tell all those families in the lower class pulling in less than 30k a year working 3 or 4 jobs at a time? are they not working hard enough? sewage... your breath stinks.

Orders have to be lawful and moral? I guess torturing people that aren't even being charged with a crime, or using chemical weapons is moral? The US military is anything but moral.

And the last 60 years (and more) have taught us that civil war always sucks. Turning a civilian area into a warzone is never ever good for the civilians living in that area. It is not a desirable outcome. No one thrives when fighting for their home and their way of life. Living through a war is horrible. It is not a solution.

Thats a mouth full from a light skinned lost his way uncle tom. 😛

This is where you've got it all wrong. I do not consider the military to be an ally. The military is our enemy. Did you not see my repeated statements that I do not trust the police or military because of their addiction to violence?

The right of the mentally ill to bare arms is one that the military supports, and they will turn against the government if the government decides to take guns away from people who have demonstrated that they cannot be trusted with guns. Why? Because domestic violence, rape, mental illness including both suicidal and homicidal thoughts, and many other problems are far more common among military and police than they are among civilians. The number of ex-military people that commit suicide is incredibly high. Mental health among our military and police is very poor, and our government has done a horrible job at treating their mental health issues that have arisen from their training and the culture that they have joined. But when people have mental health issues which make them prone to suicide, murder, or murder-suicide, then they need to not have access to guns. Even if they are ex-military, current military, or police. Especially if they are one of those.

But of course our military will oppose any attempts to keep guns out of the hands of the mentally ill, because that will disproportionately target the military. Not only will it disproportionately target the military because of the prevalence of mental illness among the military, but military members are far more likely to feel the need to have guns, and to not consider it to be a tragedy to shoot and kill other people with those guns.

Have I not made it clear my distrust of those who use violence? Why do you think I would trust the military????

you are so idealistic and generalization prone it is a wonder you have made it this far. seems like you form your opinions based on others and not your own real world experiences. shame. the torture was organised and carried out by a civilian organisation, not the military. and i dont think it was wide spread or in the same context as say ordering forces against their own countrymen. what a terrible analogy. are you feeling okay?

this is ignoring the fact that you keep changing your point from civilians couldnt oppose the government to it wouldnt be worth it. if you dont want to fight for your rights that is fine. dont mind me when i do. no one eer said it was ideal, but sometimes it is necessary.

with that said, it is not like we are anywhere close to a civil war right now, so i dont even know why this is being discussed. it is you and your worst case scenario mischaracterizations that have brought the topic here.

Amen

woah.. how did i miss this post !

albeit it took a while but it was an interesting read.

I prefer honkey personally. Redneck, maybe. I would consider a consensus. My feelings get hurt with the native american slurs though. Ancestors dont like it either do i.

I form my opinions based not just on my real world experiences, but also on my extensive reading and my numerous friends from other countries. When you've got a lot of friends from Colombia and Brazil, and you're willing to learn about their experiences, you get a different perspective. Especially when you talk to people from Colombia or Mexico, you get to learn about what happens when violence is commonplace. When you actually learn history, you get to learn how the world works. When you learn the truth about the history of the US military, it is laughable when someone claims that the military only follows moral orders.

When you're finally ready to leave your American Exceptionalism bubble and to learn the truth about the world, and to get to know how people from outside the USA think, you'll find it is so very different.

FYI Guantanamo bay is a US MILITARY prison.

I've never said that standing up to the government as a lone individual would work, you're putting words in my mouth.

I don't want you fighting for your rights because it puts me in danger when you fight for your rights. I don't want my neighbor trying to use weaponry to defend himself from the government. I have the right to not have you jeopardizing my safety just because you're a paranoid delusional homicidal nutcase.

We are not close to a civil war, but when people are fighting against their own government, that would be a civil war. It's being discussed because people have this silly idea that the second amendment is what makes us free. If you can't see how I equate advocating using your guns against your own government with the idea of a civil war, then you're pretty clueless.

just because you are offended doesnt mean you are right. thankfully you not caring about your rights with your "it isnt possible to stop their revocation so why even try" mentality doesnt effect my resolve.

for some reason you have lumped me in with, and i quote, "paranoid delusional homicidal nutcases" and despite how offensive that is, i like it because it displays your comically irrational viewpoint on how the world actually works despite your extensive readings and internet friend conversations. just because i own a gun and support that right you see me that way. you are a bigger problem than violence.

earlier you actually inferred that the US military was all psychopaths. you also seem to have a viewpoint that anyone that would resort to violence is not to be trusted. that is a quote. can you not see how naive and utopian these viewpoints are?

Make better life choices? I put myself through school while working full time. If you aren't willing to put in the work, you shouldn't get the reward.

This


Plus, from Trife's logic, we should make this about race and because minorities are stupid... we should help them. What a load of crap.

Guetmo should be closed and the inhabitant scum should have been shot and left to rot for plotting to kill Americans.

We are all glad you have friends in Columbia and Brazil Rockman... lol

Wow Rockman, just wow, and here I sat thinking you were smart, you proved me wrong and it's sad there's so many yous running around clueless about reality with an ideological blindfold.