seth is pointless to argue with these people, like in FFA most of the people who complained against it , have never done it and dont understand what is actually involved.


look at them complain about 2 guys in 2 different tags trading blow all reset and how bad it is, but it's fine if 1 guy continues to farm the same group of untags all reset long.

tho in saying that intra tag farming i believe isnt suited for 1a

Seth always like to find the technicality to justify his shadiness. Land trading is not difficult and should not consume much resources. I have never coordinated one, but just thinking about it I don't see any difficulty in doing it effectively.

On every server you will find him doing something dirty.

i do it in ffa, but i think it has no place here. In ffa you have 16 of YOUR countries to do as you like, here you get 1.

I am afraid that it will become like FFA, you trade or you have no chance at a top 10. The traders are getting the strat down and making it work more efficiently fast.

lol crest

warster do you think TKO would hold so many tnw crowns if it didn't land trade?

What's the difference between intag farming and what RD and NA and PDM do? (RD does actual intag farming as well but that's another topic)

For a mod, you sure act as an apologist for terrible game play a lot. The whole "we can't prove they're cheating" over the blatant abuse in Express cost that server several good players...

So if I grab a MD country with similar acres to me every 3 days and they retal (because I have low defense) is that considered land trading? Because it's exactly the same thing.

Internal farming and landtrading will drives people away from this game. People work very hard to be on top but end up losing to landtraders. Therefore, MOST RD tags should be wiped off the top ten list.

"Land trading is not easy, its not cheap, and its just as strategic if not more strategic than bottom feeding."

i tried to repeat this with a straight face but broke down and giggled like a school girl on whippets

from an earlier thread on the topic by Mr Cheater here:


let's see













Now as for the people defending landtrading... PDM and RD who don't know how to netgain by everyone else's rules.

this debate is stupid, the root cause of this problem is a lack attainable land in alliance. I net perfectly well in primary, because with a decent amount of skill and knowledge it isn't hard to find targets and grabbing isn't bogged down by pacts. But here you either have to DR camp the few untags with decent land (who are probably multi farms for tags anyway), all explore, or gangbang an alliance early in the set and farm them. I'll be honest, i don't really like land trading, because it's a retarded concept for a war game, but holy god is it preferable to the retard alternatives offered in 1a. It takes skill to DR camp? It takes skill to rape an alliance half your size and farm them? PA-lease.

We need to solve this land problem, obviously ghost acres didn't cover it completely.

^ your post and RD's policies don't really add up:
"there are problems with the game, therefore we're just going to abuse game mechanics and try to get the solution to these problems removed by game admins instead of just grabbing like normal people"

i think you missed my point. All you focus on is that landtrading is bad, not why it has become widespread. It's more fun than grinding untags and you make friends with other alliances, so people are doing it more. Suiciding and tag killing is not going to stop that fact.

right......land is scarce in 1a and it's completely fine if they trade a hit every 48 hrs but look at those top 10 RDs, they have low defense and trade 4-5 hits a day. It's ridiculous! i will suicide on landtraders this set ( `;´ )‹^›

As a member of a land trading alliance who does not land trade I felt the need to say a few things. While I am obviously not 100% against land trading, I must admit that I don't agree with the levels it has been done to within my alliance. I feel that a limit could and should be set to the amount of acres gained through it. How fast that amount of acres is gained is something I haven't been able to set a guideline to.

I've been following this thread in hopes of someone posting a reasonable guideline for trading. Instead all I am seeing is insult and threats of suicide. I feel that with the right self or even admin imposed limitations, land trading could be used more widely and the server could keep a friendly, fun, competitive netgaining atmosphere.

I do not find it reasonable or fair to think that anyone has to stick to the conventional ways of grabbing. In my opinion daily farming of the same 3 or 4 untagged countries into nonexistance is not healthy, fun, or even sporting. It is just something that because it has been done forever people are more prone to accepting it.

We have some great grabbing mechanics available to us if we can just find a healthy balance rather than preach injustice being done by the bad people who are in a bad alliance full of bad players.

As it is the nature of these forums and it's poster, more than likely people will decide to troll my post than treat it seriously. So if you'd like to have a conversation or have input on setting land trading guidelines I encourage you to contact me in private. I should note that I am not interested in arguing whether or not land trading should not be used at all, so if that is your intent when messaging me please do not waste your time or mine.

I played untagged last reset to give more land to the server. Was attacked pretty much every day by many different tags many many many times. Never retalled anyone, never sent a missile at anyone and only complained to players who were being greedy and not sharing my land farm enough. Try that for a change Thomas and maybe there would be a little less land trading :)

hey PowerOfLight, were you "its me beek"?

Pontius --- I just installed Windows Live Messenger again.



Hit me up

yes AzNiZe that was me.

That statement is a bigger knock against those who used to be in the top 10 but were unable to adapt to the changing policies in the game. Nobody is stoping you from land trading. Don't want to do it? Fine. But don't expect to win without it. What you're doing would be analogous to admonishing Sammy Baugh for passing the ball. The sport used to be run-first. In fact, the forward pass was illegal in football for quite some time, and even after becoming legal it took a few decades before anybody tried to use it as anything more than a gimmick. Like land trading, many people thought it cheapened the game. Real men run the ball through a gauntlet of defenders rather than pass it through the air to avoid getting hit. Now look at the game. It's a quarterback's league. Games change. The best players change with them. They don't fluff about the changes.

or maybe the top netters (Evo, LaF, Omega) who don't really landtrade are afraid the game will turn too one dimensional once they start doing it?

pre-landtrading you can compete with bottomfeeding or midfeeding, some players come close with all-ex. now it's all landtrading.

I like the comment about playing primary. I picked up primary this set and there are only a few hundred playing, but many targets to choose from. Pacts are the problem.

imagine what it would be like if every alliance could only pact 2 clans period.

yes we would, due to the fact we are the largest alliance and the fact that we almost never war. and zip TKO didnt start the FFA land trading, LAE did, all we did was adapt to compete.



as for express cheating, i have rules i must follow, you know like actual proof that someone is breaking the rules. as for blatant abuse, i guess you are refering to DR, well up until a month or so ago it wasnt against the rules, so how could i do anything about it???

i follow the guidelines given to me, hell i even got the rules changed for express to lessen the problem.

[quote poster=Warster; 18063; 333813]


yes we would, due to the fact we are the largest alliance and the fact that we almost never war. and zip TKO didnt start the FFA land trading, LAE did, all we did was adapt to compete.

I agree - it was someone else that started it and now you are forced to trade or go home

Landtrading is well suited to ffa, not 1a tho.

Grabbing pacts which people are complaining about is different and it helps those people who have never learned to grab and those who have forgotten how to break.

Oh PP I have never supported FFA style landtrading in 1a.

Good times.....

do what you want, thomas, just remember that my all explore rep isn't trading hits and you done have no reason to touch me.

i'll have zero tanks, but i'll be on the ethical side of the spectrum.. while in rd?!?!

Thomas feel free to suicide my country.

i need a good laugh.

What RD is doing is pretty much FFA style landtrading.

I support "landtrading" when it's done for instance via PDM's grabbing pacts ie. grabbing is ok and expected, but repeated grabbing is retalled more harshly..

but we don't attack within our tag. we do what pdm does, exchange hits between like minded folk in friendly alliances.

ffa style landtrading i understand to be attacking your sixteen countries between each other, all within the same tag?

(on a side note, only tits runs sixteen countries in alliance..)

um, you see, i responded pre-edit, so you can ignore it as your edit clarified making my point/question moot!

:P

Funny enough I would believe that lol

Attacking your same countries, or attacking a country, him attacking you, attacking him back, him attacking you over and over and over. There's a difference in legitimacy? They're both cheap, lame ways of playing. The only ones who argue against that point are ones who NEED to do so in order to be successful.

i haven't traded a single hit outside of my ffa maybe three resets ago?

as far as you and i am concerned, i finished first in rd this reset :P.

but i follow my alliances' policy, so take that for what you will. i also don't use it and thus don't need it. to succeed is an infinitive some might argue, though :P

what if two entirely separate countries exchange more than one hit? i mean, how do you differentiate between land trading and retaling retals?

It's pretty obvious if there are a handful of retals, or an instance where A hits B, B hits A, A hits B, 50 times.

You finished first in RD but didn't land trade? Yeah, okay.

The level of risk is completely different :P

if you discount all who did land trade, which you seem to do, then yes i did. yeah, okay. continue to ignore interjection.

dictionary.com, for infinitive and interjection if you need :(

difference is.. u hope to outrun the retal or make them bounce

Gee, a thinly veiled threat against PDM by Thomas, how novel. The reason Thomas will be the lone suicider this set it because no alliance will have his useless ass.

I don't play on this server--I just occasionally feel the need to argue over here for fluffs and giggles, so feel free to ignore me if you don't like what I have to say, but ultimately, if you have a problem with land-trading, the people to talk to are the admins. Ask them to turn off ghost acres. Then there's no benefit to land-trading.

Or declare war on all the clans that land-trade.

fluffing about it isn't productive and is a waste of everyone's time. The same fluffing happens probably about once every set or two in FFA where it's even easier to land-trade since we have 16 countries ourselves to trade between. If I know I can put a few in the top 100 land-trading or I can play an all-explore and finish with my best country ranked 300, or land-grab and spent 3-4 hours trying to find targets that are suitable (especially difficult in FFA since, again, we have 16 countries), only to AT BEST get the same results if I land-traded, then why wouldn't I?

And how is this a moral or immoral choice? It doesn't make you a better person because you refuse to land-trade with someone else in your tag, just like it doesn't make you a worse person to NOT land-trade. Ghost acres as they are currently set are NOT a bug being exploited. They're part of the programming of the game.

but boltar, if you understand either math or this game, you realize there is no outrunning a retal or if they themself know math or understand this game they won't fail.. so.. i don't understand.. outside of bottom feeding, who really expects to not be retalled?

Boltar, if you grab and then try to outrun every retal owed to you - you're not really grabbing and definitely not netgaining. If you are good and lucky, you might be able to outrun a few retals (although in reality, if a tag wants your ass they can always get it), but pretty soon your NW is so high that you cant find any suitable grabbing targets and all you are left with is an extra 4-5k acres that way over built.

These two just want to put on their hero capes and feel important. They will do very little on the grand scale of things. Please stop feeding the trolls. And remember, they will farm all your alliances before they hit us! Enjoy your set ;-)

ya you can't outrun a retal, in fact lots of alliances see it as bad form because you make their retal unnecessarily costly. The pacting and politcal make up of alliance has made land trading attractive, stop railing against the symptoms.

Yeak locket that's correct, its more of a risk to landtrade then to farm untags :)

Not when Seth is farming himself, uhm, sorry, I meant, not when Mr. Titanium is farming smlandau84.

I thought this was a joke until braden confirmed that the best RD netter outside of the land traders and Mr. Titanium/Seth with his 16 countries in RD was an all-explore, braden no less.

Alright, as a land trader myself, here are my thoughts:

-You forgot me in your list, (#13 New Toys For All there last set that finished at 80k acres).
-I traded to 36k Acres
-I retal'd up to 80k acres due to people poorly grabbing me and L:L policies getting my land + ghost acres back
-I went from 8k acres to 36k in 2 weeks.

Alright, those main points aside, here is my recommendation:

-Landtrading be performed after the 15k mark
-Only exchange 2 hits per day, (Really, are 2 hits THAT bad?)
-Try to grab and perform some retals aside from your "Trading Partner"
-Trade hits to be performed until week 5 of the set, (2 hits within 24 hours. 1 hit every 24 hours after this point would be legit).

With that type of layout, how horrendously would that offend people? Yeah, these 5 hits per day thing does look pretty bad. The one thing I don't agree on is inter-alliance trading... I'd rather it be outside of the core alliance myself.

By the way, I am no longer active leadership in PDM and these commentaries do not reflect the alliance as a whole. This is my plan for the set myself because frankly, trading sucks =P Allll those hits are way too expensive and the risk, (yes risk), of being hit and having your plan shot to hell is pretty high. And hey, you know what all you untags out there? You should be thanking alliances that have tried to find other ways to gain land rather than ruin your sets set after set by grabbing the hell out of you each and every day. That's just my $0.02 on the subject.

id rather all-x then landtrade even if its 2 times a day.. and the set i have to all-x is the set i quit

^^^ True earther wisdom. Some here lack sense.