you understand that I didn't cite those calculations, right?

I did however cite the following:

*Footballs are permeable, meaning they lose air over the course of a game.
*Footballs with less air pressure have less mass, and thus do not travel as far.


*"Sure, that doesn’t sound all that scientific, but it’s the greater point that these very smart people who know how nature works aren’t totally convinced foul play was necessarily involved."


you seem to be going at this with a great deal of conviction. i'm not so much.

lol, you post an article with scientific calculations, then focus on the most arbitrary statements in it. ok, i get it. you are joking. well played. either that or you actually believe what you are saying and if that is the case there is no point in continuing this conversation, because the very evidence you posted disproves you.

lol fordy i love you buddy, free hugs

Ford's right, the Patriots need to be made an example of. If Goodell doesn't address this situation properly, I'm going to quit paying any attention to the NFL, and will never buy any of their merchandise ever again.

and my conviction stems from your leading insult with your link. not sure how you expect me to respond to a knee jerk fanboy of a cheating organisation saying i didnt finish 2nd grade. i remember all your boston threads and your blind ignorance flowing through them. you dont want me to go hard, dont open with an insult if i dont like you enough to take it as a joke.

i do take your point BUT the concept of you being from appalachia and receiving a 2nd grade education is laughable because :

- I know you graduated from a competitive college
- You know I know this
- I know you didn't grow up in appalachia
- You know I know this
- It is a long standing AT joke that you are a redneck, which technically, you aren't at all
- You know I know this
- And to a lesser extent; I too am a conservative and believe in gun rights, so for the very reason some people poke fun at you for being a redneck, I align perfectly with you on

I hear you, but there's no way. it will be a fine, maybe a draft pick. maybe.


in any event, THIS is the straw that breaks the camel's back with regards to Goodell on? His complete BS story about the whole Ray Rice fiasco, in which a woman was physically beaten - thats one thing.. but we're talking about under-inflated footballs here! No sir! I won't support that! Boo this man!

i argue with so many people on here it is difficult to remember who actually dislikes me and who just plays along for fun at times. i havnt fluff in 4 days, im on a ton of meds, and im bored as fluff. come at me bro. it is easier to always be on attack mode and keep the posts coming.

that isnt a fair point when people are talking about a pattern of behavior. with your logic we need to wait for another woman to be beaten in order to call for goodell's termination! goodell has proven over the years that he cares very little for the integrity of the sport, just with lining the owners pockets. and this is why the owners wont get rid of him, he makes them rich.

i mean fluff, half the seahawks were on PEDs and the gaytriots are cheating like a NASCAR team looking for a championship. GREAT for ratings!

+10

also props to buttman for a VERY quick witted Half Baked reference!

lmfao.

Only thing that will happen is

1. Equipment manager responsible for balls will be fired.
2. Fine on the Patriots and possibly HC
3. Maybe a loss of a draft pick (not even 1st round) if NFL feels inclined.


That being said if the NFL can prove that patriots intenally beyond a shadow of a doubt deflated the balls in purpose and a particular member of the Patriots organization was in on it. HC, Assistant Coach, or even the GM some how then I think you see suspensions.

That specific coach or even the HC as a result knowingly is suspended for games not sure how many. Depends on how much evidence the NFL has obtained. That being said the chances of the NFL gathering enough evidence to uphold any suspension upon appeal or in a court hearing afterwards is almost null.

Did this effect the game? 99.9% probability hell no. Granted if the game was won by a field goal or so, some debate could be defended.

This is mostly a fluff up on the Patriots side and should be a fine personally at most (unless some how evidence of deliberately altering the balls showed up) Not sure for what end but, if that evidence appears then this becomes more complicated.

You don't want to over penalize a team for a mistake but, direct fraud though deserves firings and suspensions.

dont over penalize a team for a mistake (it wasnt a mistake, it was fluffing cheating) because it didnt directly affect the outcome of the game? ignoring for a moment that football is a momentum game and that throwing isnt the only advantage from a flat ball, the problem here is the intention, not the results.

to you give a criminal less of a punishment because he sucks at being a criminal? i wouldnt. criminal intent is still intent.

you suggest lessening their punishment because they didnt cheat very well, lol. come on. fluff that. these slaps on the wrist breed rule bending. lay the fluffing hamer down and i guarantee you people will think twice about cheating again. this is a pattern of behavior, and im more concerned about the refs than the patriots to be honest. we all know they have been in belicheat's pocket since the tuck rule. brady even openly yelled at a ref after the carolina monday night game last year on that final PI flag that was picked up, he chased the ref down after the game and fluffed because his vagina hurt, an action that would have gotten any other non god QB fined and or suspended. it is a fluffing joke the leeway those people are given.

but no, this is about money, not integrity of the game. it will never happen.

a game entirely and wholly built around waiting now argues weighting?

i'd call irony, but i don't want ford to be mad that i make poor puns [with-]in relation to his femoral artery..

Epic fail. How do you always fail at these things? Just gaddamn tarded. Never go full retard bro. Too late for you though. You should leave tardation to Braden, seriously.

remove their hosting home games. if foxborough cheats so god damn fluffing much, the niners at the patriots is, in fact, now hosted in, as tupac so apty geographrically refrenced it, the bay area. even worse, blackout in new england any and all televised feetsball games.

how long would new cheaters, err old cheaters.. er, new englanders support their cheating while literally not being able to see the game live or televised..

if sportsnet can blackout a winnipeg jets game becsause they want me to pay money for the feed, for a team i don't give two fluffs about, then.. eventually, the cheats, er pats, fan base would fluffing demand that they tow party lines and, i don't know, follow rules?

there are blackout rules in most american professional sports, but all the team has to do to avoid them is keep attendance up. it has nothing to do with good behavior or integrity. i think it has been something like a required sellout 3 days in advance in order for the game to be broadcast on a local channel in the NFL. not sure about the NBA, i think it might be a TV contract thing, not attendance.

and there are ways around it. i think the panthers claim something like 120+ consecutive sellouts. this is accomplished through the PSL system where there are only really less than 10K seats for sale in a 75K seat arena. granted this wasnt the original intention of the PSL system, but it is convenient a byproduct! 15 years of claimed sellouts is impressive regardless of the loopholes, especially or a team that doesnt have back to back winning seasons in their short 20 year existence. we dont have generational fans yet!

there are ways around everything. ask the patriots. they know.

[IMG]http://i58.tinypic.com/2lrjet.jpg[/IMG]

Again, Ill wait for the NFL to speak on this.

unnamed sources gave the 2 psi figure. (Rosenberg has a history of exaggerating "facts" in his "journalism" to get clicks) the refs took action at halftime to under-inflated balls. were they back deflated after halftime/at the end of the game? What action was taken during the game to prevent it, if any?

They mention to colts balls not being underinflated as proof that the patriots cheated, I ask what was the initial weight of the colts balls prior to the game? I mean, if Luck is like Rodgers, he would have started with them at 13.5, right? So even with the drop that the Patriots balls had, they would have been above 12.5, and legal.

I want to hear from the NFL what the actual numbers were at halftime and during the investigation when they checked them. not through some chickenfluff unnamed source that any bogger could make up to get a fluff load of clicks and sensationalize a story...something that Rosenberg has done in the past, with unnamed sources, and it got him run out of town.

the NFL isnt going to go into it voluntarily because it is bad for business. you might be waiting a while. the current media circus is the ONLY reason the truth may come out eventually. this is an established pattern of behavior for the goodell dictatorship. one the owners love because they are all getting rich as fluff off new TV contracts and the likes. no harm on the wallet no four. he made 44mill last year....

as long as you are good with this, then wait all you want. im going to join in the frenzy and do my part to say fluff goodell.

Oh, Goodell needs to go, i 100% agree with that. He is going to go down as the commissioner that ruined the NFL. While they are making record profits right now, they are alienating the average fan with this off the field bullfluff and blundering and random rule changes and rule additions (the process of the catch) being one of them, and the tuck rule, the carson palmer rule.

I'm sure there are a few here that would be willing to help ya with those bowel issues, lol jk
Pain meds are horrible abour constipating people sheesh....

but in all seriousness, Tom Brady likes soft balls, its no secret

and ummm fluff the Pats

What I want to know is what made the NFL change the rule for the balls. It used to be that both teams used the same set of balls. Now, each offence controls their own. That seems like it opens the door for cheating. I'm sure that they intended to allow offenses to make minor alterations within the ranges provided (some might want 12.5psi others 13.5 for example), but by making both teams use the same ball you're basically taking away the advantage from one or the other.

Either way, it would be a shame if it came out that anyone in Pats leadership (coaching, management, and/or players) knew and encouraged this. They didn't need it to win.

I was watching PTI yesterday and Kornheiser was talking about this and compared Brady's first half to second half stats. First half he was under .500 with 1 TD, 2 picks and like 80 yards. Second half he threw 2 incompletions, 2 TDs, 0 picks, and like 200 yards. So with the underinflated balls in the first half, he threw garbage. The Refs replaced the balls at half-time and then he played better.

Also, Brady has been throwing in the cold for 15 years. This doesn't seem like something that they would need to do to get an advantage.

Belichick isn't stupid. He knows that there's a target on their head after Spygate and that their actions are scrutinized more thoroughly and assumptions are made more quickly. Why would he sanction something that is so easy to catch and measure, that his QB doesn't need, and that ultimately actually resulted in poorer passing numbers? It just doesn't feel like something that they would do.

ya, what he said

a million times this.. everything the patriots do is analyzed as risk/reward.. Randy Moss, Ocho Cinco, they draft and trade for VALUE.. small risk, potential for great reward.

This is the complete opposite.. with the target on your back from spygate, you don't get the benefit of the doubt for anything, so why take such a big risk, for close to ZERO potential for reward?

Definitely a huge bummer if they find evidence of pats leadership involvement.

im not 100% sure on this, but i think you can blame the mannings.

basically, different QBs like their balls in different conditions. some like brand new balls, some like them that have been used in practice for a coule weeks, some like them rubbed down with some odd kind of stuff. all this is within the rules. kinda like baseball.

Wilson ships the balls to the team, the teams do what they want to prep the balls so their QB is happy, and the refs inspect the balls 2 hours before the game. i think it has less to do with the game PSI, and more to do with the condition of the leather. it isnt that difficult, and people that dont cheat shouldnt have a problem with it. too bad some people have no morals and want to gain every competitive advantage even if it "bends" the rules.

now we're seeing eye to eye!

The damned Patriots have been cheating a long time now, and it's continuing and getting even more egregious as time goes on, as long as there are no serious penalties that affect the owner of the team, it will continue since it puts money in the pocket of the owner. And apparently some of the refs too.

I too think that the refs are in the Patriots pocket. Goodell is destroying the NFL with his "lawyerly" administration.

Couldn't agree more

Known cheaters caught cheating again...

The patriots need to understand that in the grand scheme of things, continual denial is far worse than admittance of wrong doing. If someone hhad admitted to this today it would leave the headlines much faster. Both press conferences today ananswered no questions and screamed cover up of a crime that had no effect kn the game. That is more suspicious than the crime itself imo.

I honestly don't think this stems from Belichick. I think he bends any rules he can that he think will give him better odds, but listening to former players, all football selection / preference / control is between the QB and the equipment guys. Brady's a tool, and should be penalized at least twice a game for getting in refs faces. I think he's full of fluff saying he's never heard of something like this. He's quoted as saying he prefers underinflated footballs, so the 1st half vs 2nd half stats are out the window as far as motive. I don't care about a particular game, I care about how many times this has been done in the past. Like the 35-31 win over Baltimore at home? fluff the Patriots.

I worry that this may motivate them though. Like going 18-0 following spygate. The last thing I want furthered is the Brady GOAT arguments that idiotic Patriots homers throw around if Belichick's system wins another ring

k

10/10 would read again

goooooooooooooooooooood.



gooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooodd.....

The big question i have, outside of wanting to hear the hard number that the balls were at at halftime, is why are the only people around the league that are saying anything about this the two teams that they beat? Everybody else seems to either be silent or actually saying they have run onto this (gano) or that they like over inflated balls (rodgers). Nobody else has anything to say

my best guess is they have better things to do

https://www.facebook.com/...57&type=2&theater

this is funny but would have been better if AC DC did the singing

i understand you are a fan and everything but systematic and/or institutionalized cheating is a big deal. systematic and/or institutionalized cheating with cover ups and denial when the infraction isnt that big is an even bigger deal. this is a problem and they better not have anything better to do. turn that fanboy mode off for a second and imagine if this was the NY giants or something.

"systematic and/or institutionalized cheating is a big deal. systematic and/or institutionalized cheating with cover ups and denial when the infraction isnt that big is an even bigger deal."

I agree with that.
However, I don't believe we can definitely point to systematic or institutionalized cheating here.

they have been caught cheating in the playoffs twice. atleast one was from the top levels, this one may have been we just dont know yet.

it is easily a possibility of systematic and/or institutionalized. only ime will tell because they will be caught again if this is just a slap on the wrist. i hope not. maybe they straighten the fugg up after this.

thinking the pats are the only ones doing this kind of bullfluff is sort of ignorant.... I mean look at Tampa's SB win :p

the pats just have the most enemies from being so good for so long, consistently being in the spotlight.

the NFL needs to clean up it's act in general, patriots included.

however, the auto-tuned Tom Brady song talking about balls made this whole thing worth it

I think it is arrogant to believe they are hated in this manner here because they are good, and not because they have cheated before and clearly cheated here. They got caught, and in the playoffs. Twice. The tampa thing was one person paying a bribe to alter the footballs that we JUST found out about. and I hate Tampa now for it. I guarantee you that I would be on here saying the same fluff about them if this had happened this year and not the turn of the century. on a side note, didnt his actions benefit both teams? I havnt read into that much yet.

Regardless, it was not a head coach and cheating at the organisational level. that is much worse. There are plenty of good teams out there people arnt acting like this over. This is about the cheating for me, nothing else. I dislike the pats because of the titty bowl. I dislike a lot of teams. I HATE them because they cheat. Notice i didnt say cheated.

It is like calapari in NCAAM. fluff that cheating fluff. Not because he is one of the best coaches out there. Or my UNC football program. I will have a hard time bringing myself around to support that program ever again. the only reason I will be able to is that I bleed Carolina blue. I hate the sea chickens, not because they have a historic defenss, but because the cheating fluff Pete Caroll is their coach. I really want to like seattle. I think their football mindset is much like the panthers and I like watching them play. But their HC is a fluffing cheater! And something like half their team testing positive for PEDs lol. All these teams/coaches have been busted for cheating MULTIPLE times. I don't even want to go into my hatred for those swamp rats that call themselves the Saints. Cheating fluffs.

So yeah, I hate the patriots. But it is not because of their success. And yes others cheat, but they get hated on too. The patriots just happen to be in the headlines right now and playing in the superbowl despite cheating. Only a fan can accept that scenario. Like me and UNC.

No NFL player outside of maybe a kicker is PED free. Give me a break, half, lol!

There is no history of cheating by Calipari. He has never cheated based on every investigation there has been. Stop with the BS!

Lol seriously? He has had not one, but TWO deep tourney runs vacated. He even paid into a 100k settelment for the Derrick rose incident. Yeah, not guilty at all. He pops from school to school. He will be caught at Kentucky too. I'm sorry you are a fan. I like kentucky, hate calapari.

And no NFL player PED free maybe, but half the Hawks team tested positive. They got caught.

The argument "everyone does it" is generally used by cheaters. Lol.

hoop's gonna go all harvard on you fordy