What Dis is talking about is the working poor. People who put in a fluff ton of effort and still can't make it due to structural and societal limitations. Just 'working hard' isn't always enough. Equality of opportunity in America is a fluffing pipedream.

And dear lord, 7 pages and I haven't seen one of you guys mention trickle down 'economics'? PROGRESS!!!

i like how you keep making excuses for other people.

i think the perception of inequality is a bigger problem than the actual inequality. it is used as a fluffing crutch by the lazy and entitled.

as for your trickle down economics snide ass remark. this is a gun thread dumbass. you seem to be one of the ones pointing this in a different direction.

Snide ass, hah. Yeah, this is a gun thread, but people keep talking about the second amendment like it's the most important fluffing part of the Constitution, and how life will end when that 'right' is taken away. I guess I started the diversion when I pointed out that there are many more important rights that impact your daily life that already have been or are being taken away as we speak.

But seriously, the first step towards solving a problem is admitting that there is one. If you guys can't realize that there is a ton of inequality of opportunity in the US, then I don't know what to tell you.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/...lity-costs_b_6249904.html

Cause, you know, that looks hella equal to me....

everything needs to be given to everyone regardless of effort or determination because everyone is equal!!!!!!


welcome to the downfall of the human race with that ideal.

as for your pretty graph, im not sure you know how statistics work lol. regardless, you need to figure out if you want to call me a rascist, or classist, and stick to it. all this flip flopping to try to prove a point is making me dizzy. im not sure where in the constitution it days that the 1% shouldnt get any richer and the poor should.

OMG I read some of page 1 and then 7, it started with ban on knifes and turned into income

Ban Americans!, they can't even stick to a subject!

The working poor are the working poor because of life choices they have made. Come from a disadvantaged background? You may need to work harder to overcome but it is possible if you put in the hard work and make good life decisions. I'm tired of all the stupid fluffs who pissed away their younger years fluffing off who now want to be rewarded as if they have done something spectacular in their career as a janitor or some other low level job. Hard work is not the same as hours worked.

poor people just need to be more bootstrappy and quit being poor!

It isn't a hard concept to understand if you are not a brainwashed zombie of the Democrat or republican party. It really isn't hard to understand but you seem to eat the fluff they keep feeding you to maintain political power.

the dude with the name i'm not going to bother trying to type out probably didn't put himself through school in economics....

i'm also fairly certain that the "stupid fluffs" he's tired of don't actually exist in the real world. it's just hyperbole.

that's the problem with these discussions....

Pang clearly lives under a rock or never leaves his office.

your counterpoint has the same level of quality as your earlier arguments.

GIVE POOR PEOPLE GUNS!!!

No way, the government will then exploit that and come up with an Obama bullets program and raise even more the taxes on the rich!

Yawn

no one's saying that.....

So.......you're suggesting exactly what?

We have different definitions of reality. I live in a world filled with victims of violence. I talked to a bunch of them today when I was at a protest against Enrique Pena Nieto. These people exist in my reality. These people don't exist in your reality. Unless I was at a protest filled with imaginary friends, then you're the one that is clueless about reality.

Me and my imaginary friends were on RT today.

Well, then we must be on separate dimensions, just because you're protesting a Mexican mobster doesn't make your reality different than mine, you just don't understand how the world works hence your reality is different than mine, but in reality we live in same world, you just see it from an idealistic point of view, and BTW I grew up in a very bad Argentina where our dictator did worse than the one in Mexico, so don't attempt to use that against me, I lived it in flesh.

A dictator that came into power with the support of the USA. Yet it is irrational for me to not trust the US military? I don't trust authority. I don't trust those who commit acts of violence.

My view isn't idealistic at all, it is in fact a very cynical realistic point of view. My lack of faith in leadership and those with guns isn't idealistic, it is completely grounded in reality and empirical evidence. Idealism is where you are willing to live under the delusion that the authorities are trustworthy. I am not idealistic. I am a hardcore realist.

WTF does the US military have to do with that dictator assuming power, good God you're life stupid bro!, the assclowns that backed him up was your very own democrats and Obama, get a fluffing clue man!!

hmm... it's probably time for me to get a new handle because I pretty much retaliated against them crazy gun-wielding brain-washed masked Muslim idiots.

just out of curiosity, why do them crazy Muslims think that wearing a mask is going to hide their identity from the One True Jewish God?

ahh, they probably read that Muslims For Idiocy book. or was it Islam For Idiots? probably a good thing that Jesus the Son Of God took the time and effort to get resurrected for all of y'all's sins.

Thank You For Making Me Authenticate Before I Post My Drunken Nonsense.
Hmmm, Jayr is missing a post here.
I Must Look elsewhere to find his irreverent post.

Self service registration is awesome for dibs.

Just because my government did it doesn't mean that I support it. And you're calling me clueless? Have my posts not made it clear that I am against what my government has done?

I assume that the dictator you're talking about is Jorge Rafael Videla, known for his human rights abuses against left wing political opponents, which is why the US military and US government supported him. The information exposed in the trail of the juntas is why the term "Argentine dictator" makes me think of him.

But what do I know, I'm just living in some fantasy world not connected with reality, right?

Lol

ko is argentine is by birth, is he not? my guess is he might know better than most. but when it comes to argentine i go for wine, mountains and retired and living like a king in patagonia, so i'm obviously biased or clueless, whichever works better for you ;p

Yes that scumbag, ironically enough supported by Jimmy Carter, Democrat.

Viva liberalism!

And how is your knowledge of Argentine political history? I guess knowledge is for chumps?

How is that ironic? Jimmy Carter was the president of the US, so he kind of represented the US government. It's not called irony, it's called truth.

The reason it's ironic is because the left in this country paints itself like a beacon of truth and transparency brainwashing everyone into believing the republicans are the evil empire when in fact it is them the democrats doing everything they accuse the reps of doing, I hope you now understand why I despise the democrats, it's too bad people are so blinded by the deception and either don't want or can't see past the lies and deception.

Democrats have been trying to take our guns for a very long time, and it's not for our safety as they claim, it's for better control of populates, a disarmament of general population would mean free reign to do whatever they please without fearing a revolt.

I dont know about Argentina anything. Whats funny to me is your view of the us military as a political power.
I wouldnt have bother engaging you in a us political discussion or flame had i known youre mexican. Totally different ball game down there. I dont know where in particular you reside down there but i do know its a killing zone and corruption is boss. I suspect after being under siege and death everywhere all the time with zero justice i would have some crazy beliefs also.

I can't tell Democrats apart from Republicans. That's why I'm a libertarian, and I have never voted for a Republican or a Democrat. Their actions in office make them indistinguishable from each other. Obama fooled some people with his civil liberties rhetoric, but then look what he did with expanding the drone attacks program, not closing Guantanamo like promised, and ramping up unconstitutional domestic surveillance programs.

I'm a life long libertarian (well, since I was 15 years old), that has never ever voted for a Democrat. So trying to defeat me in an argument by saying that Democrats suck ... it's kind of pointless. You're only proving my point by criticizing them. You're not proving me wrong at all.

I'm not a Mexican, but I don't have to be a Mexican to care about the suffering they are enduring because of the US foreign policies like NAFTA, the war on drugs, and plan Merida. The reason I care is that I have empathy for others, and I have taken it upon myself to learn the history and politics of other countries. I have made a very strong effort to learn the truth about what is happening in the world. My beliefs are "crazy" because I choose to not be ignorant.

You don't know about Argentina anything, you don't know about Mexico anything, you don't know about Colombia anything, you don't know about Brazil anything, you don't know about Turkey anything, you don't know about Greece anything, you don't know about Germany anything, you pretty much just don't know anything about world history. But in your ignorance, you decide that the views of someone else are "crazy" because of the conclusions they've come to after choosing to learn about stuff that you know nothing about.

That's not even remotely close to what I'm talking about. People shouldn't be given handouts. I'm against abuse of the welfare system just as much as you are. It sickens me to hear of welfare fraud, because many people out there really DO need it to survive, and they are working their asses off for nothing.

What I'm talking about is providing a level playing field so that people can then make or break themselves. That's equality of opportunity. What you are referencing is literally the exact opposite; equality of outcome. Socialism, communism, whatever the fluff you wanna call it. That's not at all what I'm saying.

And ford, the problem with having this type of discussion on a forum is that you can't always tell who my remarks are directed at. So your silly response about me not being able to decide if I'm calling you racist or classist is asinine, because many of my comments aren't directed at you at all...

I was trying to figure out how your head got lodged up your ass. I see that will be an impossibility. Mexico would have been a great excuse.
Ill keep throwing fluff out there to see if it sticks though.

Equality of opportunity in America is a very real thing. The outcomes of that opportunity are what people make of it.

That's why we have so much migration, we have people from just about every country here.

i think the only opportunities immigrants have of making it big in America (this generation anyways) is through reality television or professional sports. Other than that, they can just clean the toilets of the people who believe that everyone in America has equal opportunity.

Are you guys living in the 1800s?

Aw there she is! Debbie Downer herself!

This is a large part of the problem as well, the Democrats and the Republicans are one and the same in the final analysis. This whole situation has made me reconsider the Government of China completely. I can't tell the difference between their communists, and our demorepublicrats at all, except ours just straight up lie to us about what exactly they represent, because it certainly isn't the people. The communists don't operate under such conditions, they are just in charge, like it or die. No wishy-washy acting out the drama for the public. Saves time and money in all reality. Look how much money is involved in a campaign. Why would someone spend millions to get a job that only pays 200K a year unless there was some means of wringing all that money and more out of it somehow.

Lawyers, which is all of them, never leave money on the table.

Cerb got rejected by another mail order bride from china and is considering moving there to get more game for his buck chasing down a sweaty fat german transvestite named shea buckley white who is really in india.

Whilst the real topic of this thread is about gun control and not the massacre, I'd just like to point out that I am from Cairns where the massacre took place. The family involved (not the suspect mother) are clients of my tax business and my friend is a police officer with child services who had to participate in the investigation following the tragedy. Was a very sad event but alas no gun laws or any other weapon related laws would have been able to prevent what took place.

If they come here educated or pit themselves through college there is plenty of opportunity. The only industry they are technically excluded is classified government work.

then why is the average salary income of america 25k for a family of 4?

you can work your bag off and make shyte for pay at a bunch of crappy jobs... or you can get lucky and find a job that pays well enough for you to call yourself middle class.

Of my waking hours, I have spent 40% of them at work in my entire life. I'm 31. I'm not rich... i'm not the most powerful person in the world, and i guarantee you i worked just as hard as any of the rich people in the world. But they had something that i didnt have. Luck of timing and circumstance? Right family line? family wealth? family connections?

pls tell me.

Heart. Work 24/7 . Good business ethics. Picked something that is in demand and makes a fluffload of money. They dont fluff on ee AT about not getting free fluff. There are so many more reasons.

LOL, I'm really enjoying this, Debbie is charming!

fluff, i do mechanic work on the side of my 9-5. jobs for friends, rebuilding junkyard motors and transmissions, etc. i have even taken some community college trade courses pertaining to automotive maintenance and diagnosis in addition to the numerous books.


the american dream requires effort not just into your work, but into improving yourself as well. motivation for moving up. if you are in a dead end job then do something about it.

i understand that some people are in situations where they have other priorities, but that is just that. with my recent circumstances i fully understand that. im falling behind in my continuing education requirements and everything. but i will get back on track. settling negates any right to equality you may have. it is as simple as that. you need to fight for it.




obviously there are people with family money, but it isnt their fault where they were born or the circumstances they were born into. and yes, this is part of the reason for the economic divide, generational money that some races have and others dont. and yes people have racial preferences when hiring for their business. the world isnt perfect. if anything it has been proven that government regulation is fairly ineffective when it comes to racial desegregation.

but these problems will not be as easily solved when complaining about the perceived inequality and prejudices. they will be easier solved with the determination of everyone to better themselves instead of settle into dead end jobs and blame their circumstances instead of their lack of motivation for self improvement.

that is as hippie as you are ever going to see me. dont get used to it.