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mrford Game profile

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21,352

Sep 23rd 2014, 22:53:05

humans were killing each other long before guns were invented. if you think about it, many great innovations came from humans desire to more efficiently kill their enemy.
Swagger of a Chupacabra

[21:37:01] <&KILLERfluffY> when I was doing FA stuff for sof the person who gave me the longest angry rant was Mr Ford

HavocMD

Member
96

Sep 24th 2014, 4:10:19

When did all the Free Republic folks start playing EE?

BlueCow

Member
793

Sep 24th 2014, 19:34:26

Obama is the best half black president ever!
Slag 12 - Chevs -15

Trife Game profile

Member
5817

Sep 24th 2014, 20:18:50

Originally posted by BlueCow:
Obama is the best half black president ever!


Bill Clinton would probably object to that statement

BlueCow

Member
793

Sep 24th 2014, 20:46:08

Originally posted by Trife:
Originally posted by BlueCow:
Obama is the best half black president ever!


Bill Clinton would probably object to that statement


Second time I have heard that when using that line.
Slag 12 - Chevs -15

Pang Game profile

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Game Development
5731

Sep 24th 2014, 21:44:03

Originally posted by mrford:
canada actually has an extremely competent military, although it isnt set up to operate on its own really. it relies heavily on allies logistics and support, much like many UN members.

in that regard, no military on the planet really has the logistics support of the US military, it is one of the main things that make it a world wide tool for force projection


http://www.ctvnews.ca/...nada-in-mideast-1.2021704

Harper proclaimed with a smile that Canada's military has actually moved more supplies into northern Iraq, so far, than the U.S. Air Force. In addition to those logistical flights, he said Canada has the second-largest contingent of foreign forces advising the Iraqi military.


pwned.
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elvesrus

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5053

Sep 24th 2014, 22:31:36

don't forget the greatest canadian war hero ever http://www.todayifoundout.com/...-shot-six-times-on-d-day/
Originally posted by crest23:
Elves is a douche on every server.

mrford Game profile

Member
21,352

Sep 24th 2014, 22:35:22

Originally posted by Pang:
Originally posted by mrford:
canada actually has an extremely competent military, although it isnt set up to operate on its own really. it relies heavily on allies logistics and support, much like many UN members.

in that regard, no military on the planet really has the logistics support of the US military, it is one of the main things that make it a world wide tool for force projection


http://www.ctvnews.ca/...nada-in-mideast-1.2021704

Harper proclaimed with a smile that Canada's military has actually moved more supplies into northern Iraq, so far, than the U.S. Air Force. In addition to those logistical flights, he said Canada has the second-largest contingent of foreign forces advising the Iraqi military.


pwned.


Poor canada. Clawing and scratching for some sense of superiority, however inconsequential or manipulated. Even when being paid a compliment.

Your fact does not change my statement. It does not mean Canada has superior capabilities.

Edited By: mrford on Sep 24th 2014, 22:37:46
Swagger of a Chupacabra

[21:37:01] <&KILLERfluffY> when I was doing FA stuff for sof the person who gave me the longest angry rant was Mr Ford

VicRattlehead Game profile

Member
1373

Sep 24th 2014, 23:59:13

Also, why single out the Air Force? The Army is a bigger branch logistics-wise.

mrford Game profile

Member
21,352

Sep 25th 2014, 0:22:14

The airforce generally handles the strategic airlift capabilities, which is key to logistics and force projection. and airlift was what the article he linked to was talking about.

Airlift command and sea lift command handle a large portion of the supply logistics.
Swagger of a Chupacabra

[21:37:01] <&KILLERfluffY> when I was doing FA stuff for sof the person who gave me the longest angry rant was Mr Ford

Viceroy Game profile

Member
893

Sep 25th 2014, 0:43:10

Originally posted by Pang:
It's not really an apples-to-apples comparison of isis-to-hussein.

With the 2003 war, there was a big song and dance to prove Iraq was doing things that made them worth fighting/deposing their regime in the first place.

In 2014, ISIS is outright committing atrocities, planning to take over/kill more people... and then publishing what they do on YouTube for the world to see; basically throwing down the gauntlet to the West and their regional allies.

The other piece is that the only reason this situation has come about is because of the power vacuum created by the other ill-advised war and the horrible post-invasion planning their-in.

If anything, this war is more Bush's fault than Obama's, TBH.


I agree it is not an apples to apples comparison, but at least make sure you know what fruits you're actually comparing...

I will concede that nothing changed that warranted deposing Hussein from Iraq in 2003. However, he had a long laundry list of atrocities - which definitely included the utilization of weapons of mass destruction against Shiite and Kurdish Iraqis - that made the war very justified, but only when applied retroactively. In short, Bush did what Clinton didn't want to do, and he did not do it until he could build sufficient support from allied partners to accomplish it.

[Edit] Regardless, the manner in which we went into Iraq has no bearing on how long we should have stayed or the time frame and/or manner in which we left. We cannot consider the two as being the same thing. Even if we were not justified going in in the first place, we cannot use this alone to determine the nature or speed in which to extricate ourselves from the situation. [/edit]

Additionally, I fail to see how ISIS publishing their atrocities is new. Does the name Nick Berg ring a bell?

And in regards to the power vacuum, blaming this on Bush is short-sighted, ignorant, and naive. The reason there is a power vacuum in Iraq specifically is not because we went in there. It is because of the manner in which we left.

I was in Iraq. I supported Iraqi missions. They were becoming competent. They were running their own operations. Hell, in some cases, they were also running our operations. Sure, they still had a long way to go, but they were coming together to make a viable country. Unfortunately, a paradigm shift in American foreign policy caused us to pull out before the job was finished - and by job, I mean the job of rebuilding the country and providing law and order, not war. In fact, with the reliance on warrants issued by Iraqi courts, you could easily make the argument that there was no war in Iraq any longer as early as the summer of 2009.

The American troops leaving when they did and in the manner in which they did was akin to a doctor removing the stitches before the scar had sufficient time to heal. Is it any shock that the festering wound is now infected?

I fault Bush for many things and his administration deserves the scrutiny and criticism it so often receives. But this? This is not on him.

Edited By: Viceroy on Sep 25th 2014, 0:46:48
See Original Post
And, Monsters, do not forget to specify, when time and place shall serve, that I am an ass.

Pang Game profile

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Game Development
5731

Sep 25th 2014, 1:15:37

Originally posted by mrford:
Originally posted by Pang:
Originally posted by mrford:
canada actually has an extremely competent military, although it isnt set up to operate on its own really. it relies heavily on allies logistics and support, much like many UN members.

in that regard, no military on the planet really has the logistics support of the US military, it is one of the main things that make it a world wide tool for force projection


http://www.ctvnews.ca/...nada-in-mideast-1.2021704

Harper proclaimed with a smile that Canada's military has actually moved more supplies into northern Iraq, so far, than the U.S. Air Force. In addition to those logistical flights, he said Canada has the second-largest contingent of foreign forces advising the Iraqi military.


pwned.


Poor canada. Clawing and scratching for some sense of superiority, however inconsequential or manipulated. Even when being paid a compliment.

Your fact does not change my statement. It does not mean Canada has superior capabilities.


poor america, needs to belittle the countries that help them clean up their messes. you're the homer simpson to our ned flanders.... neighbourino.
-=Pang=-
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Goofy Game profile

Member
415

Sep 25th 2014, 1:17:00

Pang, look at the poster, he doesn't speak for all of us.

elvesrus

Member
5053

Sep 25th 2014, 1:20:22

not to mention one of us homers said nice things about canada



TWICE :p
Originally posted by crest23:
Elves is a douche on every server.

Link Game profile

Member
4676

Sep 25th 2014, 1:29:12

i see quite alot of negativity towards obama actually lol
Link.


I Am a meat popsicle.


Elders
ICN
NBK
PanLV
SALT
MaK
Valks
CwG

mrford Game profile

Member
21,352

Sep 25th 2014, 1:32:44

Originally posted by Pang:
Originally posted by mrford:
Originally posted by Pang:
Originally posted by mrford:
canada actually has an extremely competent military, although it isnt set up to operate on its own really. it relies heavily on allies logistics and support, much like many UN members.

in that regard, no military on the planet really has the logistics support of the US military, it is one of the main things that make it a world wide tool for force projection


http://www.ctvnews.ca/...nada-in-mideast-1.2021704

Harper proclaimed with a smile that Canada's military has actually moved more supplies into northern Iraq, so far, than the U.S. Air Force. In addition to those logistical flights, he said Canada has the second-largest contingent of foreign forces advising the Iraqi military.


pwned.


Poor canada. Clawing and scratching for some sense of superiority, however inconsequential or manipulated. Even when being paid a compliment.

Your fact does not change my statement. It does not mean Canada has superior capabilities.


poor america, needs to belittle the countries that help them clean up their messes. you're the homer simpson to our ned flanders.... neighbourino.


where did i belittle canada in my orig post? jesus you are defensive. pretty sure i was dealing a compliment to canada's military.

it is a simple fact canada, like every other nation on the planet, doesnt have the logistical capabilities of the US. that isnt an insult anymore than saying the jamacians arnt very good at ice skating.

now if you want to get butthurt over my response to your article that was posted, tough turkey. you posted an article that proved nothing other than to take some information out of context in order to attempt to counter a point that was unrelated in pretty much every way. if that wasnt as i described as clawing foe some sense of superiority, then i dont know what it is.

Edited By: mrford on Sep 25th 2014, 1:48:19
Swagger of a Chupacabra

[21:37:01] <&KILLERfluffY> when I was doing FA stuff for sof the person who gave me the longest angry rant was Mr Ford

Pang Game profile

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Sep 25th 2014, 2:11:42

hmm i sort of hoped no one but ford and koh thought I was being serious in this thread....
-=Pang=-
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mrford Game profile

Member
21,352

Sep 25th 2014, 2:15:45

you arnt doing a very good job of that then

i find more name calling is effective, jerkface

Edited By: mrford on Sep 25th 2014, 2:25:35
Swagger of a Chupacabra

[21:37:01] <&KILLERfluffY> when I was doing FA stuff for sof the person who gave me the longest angry rant was Mr Ford

Zorp Game profile

Member
953

Sep 25th 2014, 4:02:03

I think Poe's Law is in full effect here. Sometimes Pang tries to imply that he is joking, but he is saying things that I think he agrees with.

Pang Game profile

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5731

Sep 25th 2014, 4:23:38

my wife is an American... draw your own conclusions about my opinions about America...
-=Pang=-
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BladeEWG Game profile

Member
2191

Sep 25th 2014, 10:37:14

this was actually pretty funny Pang ;)

poor america, needs to belittle the countries that help them clean up their messes. you're the homer simpson to our ned flanders.... neighbourino.

mrford Game profile

Member
21,352

Sep 25th 2014, 11:59:47

"i dont hate black people, i have a black friend!"
Swagger of a Chupacabra

[21:37:01] <&KILLERfluffY> when I was doing FA stuff for sof the person who gave me the longest angry rant was Mr Ford

Azz Kikr Game profile

Wiki Mod
1520

Sep 25th 2014, 13:44:50

Originally posted by Pang:
my wife is an American... draw your own conclusions about my opinions about America...


..."fluff america"?


:D

Requiem Game profile

Member
EE Patron
9056

Sep 25th 2014, 13:55:26

Pang I think this game has made you angry? Smoke more weed man!

Pang Game profile

Administrator
Game Development
5731

Sep 25th 2014, 13:56:44

Originally posted by Azz Kikr:
Originally posted by Pang:
my wife is an American... draw your own conclusions about my opinions about America...


..."fluff america"?


:D


+69!
-=Pang=-
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Requiem Game profile

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9056

Sep 25th 2014, 14:01:17

Pang I know your from up north but I'm going to give you the best advice ever: Don't eat anything that isn't cooked first.

Suicidal Game profile

Member
2215

Sep 26th 2014, 11:40:21

Build the border wall......block out Canada...., cuz that is where all the cold air comes from!!!

GodHead Dibs Game profile

New Member
1399

Sep 26th 2014, 13:34:17

Originally posted by Pang:
if the US wasn't such a beacon of hatred we probably wouldn't be targeted at all. your premise is flawed from the start; that's why I didn't really respond to it.

it's not like Canada has a major strategic interest in the middle east beyond supporting our allies.


it's not our fault that people from other countries are too poor to get real hobbies. probably why everybody decided to start moving to this hemisphere.
Dibs Ludicrous was here.

tellarion Game profile

Member
3906

Sep 28th 2014, 4:27:31

So...according to Pang...Canada is UPS? Congrats!

KoHeartsGPA Game profile

Member
EE Patron
29,485

Sep 28th 2014, 8:04:13

*eats popcorn*
Mess with me you better kill me, or I'll just take your pride & joy and jack it up
(•_•)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6VRMGTwU4I
-=TSO~DKnights~ICD~XI~LaF=-

S.F. Giants 2010, 2012, 2014 World Series Champions, fluff YEAH!

Rufus Game profile

Member
249

Sep 28th 2014, 12:03:11

Originally posted by Hel_TKS:
Two diffrent wars. Iraq was wrong. Cleaning up Isis is beacause of Bush-war.
Srsly? 1) Why was Iraq war wrong and
2) isis is entirely obama's creation actually, not Bush's. What's even more ironic is that obama even got a nobel peace prize for it.
I am John Galt.

Pang Game profile

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Sep 28th 2014, 14:28:02

Originally posted by tellarion:
So...according to Pang...Canada is UPS? Congrats!


we had an over abundance of brown shorts!!
-=Pang=-
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KoHeartsGPA Game profile

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Sep 28th 2014, 17:15:24

Originally posted by Viceroy:
Originally posted by Pang:
It's not really an apples-to-apples comparison of isis-to-hussein.

With the 2003 war, there was a big song and dance to prove Iraq was doing things that made them worth fighting/deposing their regime in the first place.

In 2014, ISIS is outright committing atrocities, planning to take over/kill more people... and then publishing what they do on YouTube for the world to see; basically throwing down the gauntlet to the West and their regional allies.

The other piece is that the only reason this situation has come about is because of the power vacuum created by the other ill-advised war and the horrible post-invasion planning their-in.

If anything, this war is more Bush's fault than Obama's, TBH.


I agree it is not an apples to apples comparison, but at least make sure you know what fruits you're actually comparing...

I will concede that nothing changed that warranted deposing Hussein from Iraq in 2003. However, he had a long laundry list of atrocities - which definitely included the utilization of weapons of mass destruction against Shiite and Kurdish Iraqis - that made the war very justified, but only when applied retroactively. In short, Bush did what Clinton didn't want to do, and he did not do it until he could build sufficient support from allied partners to accomplish it.

(Edit) Regardless, the manner in which we went into Iraq has no bearing on how long we should have stayed or the time frame and/or manner in which we left. We cannot consider the two as being the same thing. Even if we were not justified going in in the first place, we cannot use this alone to determine the nature or speed in which to extricate ourselves from the situation. (/edit)

Additionally, I fail to see how ISIS publishing their atrocities is new. Does the name Nick Berg ring a bell?

And in regards to the power vacuum, blaming this on Bush is short-sighted, ignorant, and naive. The reason there is a power vacuum in Iraq specifically is not because we went in there. It is because of the manner in which we left.

I was in Iraq. I supported Iraqi missions. They were becoming competent. They were running their own operations. Hell, in some cases, they were also running our operations. Sure, they still had a long way to go, but they were coming together to make a viable country. Unfortunately, a paradigm shift in American foreign policy caused us to pull out before the job was finished - and by job, I mean the job of rebuilding the country and providing law and order, not war. In fact, with the reliance on warrants issued by Iraqi courts, you could easily make the argument that there was no war in Iraq any longer as early as the summer of 2009.

The American troops leaving when they did and in the manner in which they did was akin to a doctor removing the stitches before the scar had sufficient time to heal. Is it any shock that the festering wound is now infected?

I fault Bush for many things and his administration deserves the scrutiny and criticism it so often receives. But this? This is not on him.


I agree 100%, my brother was there too and said the exact same thing.

PS notice how Pang and the rest of the left didn't address your post, ya, it was a shut the door in your face post, that's why LOL :-)

Edited By: KoHeartsGPA on Sep 28th 2014, 17:17:25
Mess with me you better kill me, or I'll just take your pride & joy and jack it up
(•_•)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6VRMGTwU4I
-=TSO~DKnights~ICD~XI~LaF=-

S.F. Giants 2010, 2012, 2014 World Series Champions, fluff YEAH!

Bob Loblaw

Member
EE Patron
19

Sep 28th 2014, 19:41:50

Originally posted by Viceroy:

And in regards to the power vacuum, blaming this on Bush is short-sighted, ignorant, and naive. The reason there is a power vacuum in Iraq specifically is not because we went in there. It is because of the manner in which we left.

I was in Iraq. I supported Iraqi missions. They were becoming competent. They were running their own operations. Hell, in some cases, they were also running our operations. Sure, they still had a long way to go, but they were coming together to make a viable country. Unfortunately, a paradigm shift in American foreign policy caused us to pull out before the job was finished - and by job, I mean the job of rebuilding the country and providing law and order, not war. In fact, with the reliance on warrants issued by Iraqi courts, you could easily make the argument that there was no war in Iraq any longer as early as the summer of 2009.

The American troops leaving when they did and in the manner in which they did was akin to a doctor removing the stitches before the scar had sufficient time to heal. Is it any shock that the festering wound is now infected?

I fault Bush for many things and his administration deserves the scrutiny and criticism it so often receives. But this? This is not on him.


The U.S.–Iraq Status of Forces Agreement (official name: Agreement Between the United States of America and the Republic of Iraq On the Withdrawal of United States Forces from Iraq and the Organization of Their Activities during Their Temporary Presence in Iraq) was a status of forces agreement (SOFA) between Iraq and the United States, signed by President George W. Bush in 2008. It established that U.S. combat forces would withdraw from Iraqi cities by June 30, 2009, and all U.S. forces will be completely out of Iraq by December 31, 2011.
http://en.wikipedia.org/...tatus_of_Forces_Agreement

BILL_DANGER Game profile

Member
524

Sep 28th 2014, 19:51:49

BOB, DO YOU BELIEVE THAT BUSH PERHAPS BOWED TO POLITICAL PRESSURE HERE AT HOME IN SIGNING THAT AGREEMENT?

REGARDLESS, I'M NOT A BUSH CHEERLEADER, SO LET ME GET BACK TO THE POINT OF THIS THREAD, THE HYPOCRISY ON DISPLAY WHEN PEOPLE TRY TO ABSOLVE OBAMA WHILE DEMONIZING HIS PREDECESSOR.

http://www.cnn.com/...ress/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

READ THAT AND THEN PLEASE TELL ME AGAIN HOW EVERYTHING IS BUSH'S FAULT, AND POOR OBAMA IS JUST STILL TRYING TO CLEAN UP THE MESS DEEP INTO HIS SECOND TERM AND WITH HIS OWN ARRAY OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS MISADVENTURES BEHIND HIM.. LET US JUST ADMIT THAT ELECTING OBAMA BECAUSE HE WAS NOT BUSH (SORTA LIKE GIVING HIM THE NOBEL PEACE PRICE FOR SAME REASON) WAS NOT SMART, AND MOVEON.

HA!
BILL

Furious999 Game profile

Member
1452

Sep 28th 2014, 20:07:15

He, Obama, has certainly turned out disappointing.

Bob Loblaw

Member
EE Patron
19

Sep 28th 2014, 20:34:13

BILL, if you believe Bush, in the last year of his presidency, was bowing to political pressure, which US political party do you think he was yielding to as the 2008 Presidential election approached?

And please explain how my posting a single fact, that the draw down of US combat forces in Iraq was per a timetable agreement signed by Bush, is demonizing him? I was merely posting a factual reminder in response to Viceroy's statement "The American troops leaving when they did and in the manner in which they did was akin to a doctor removing the stitches before the scar had sufficient time to heal. Is it any shock that the festering wound is now infected?"
This is a statement which I agree with 100%. And I am far far far from an Obama cheerleader. I detest what he has done with his presidency as much as I detested GW Bush's.

But let's also not forget, this isn't a matter of 20/20 hindsight. Remember the Pottery Barn rule?
-
According to Washington Post journalist Bob Woodward, U.S. Secretary of State Colin Powell cited the rule in the summer of 2002 when warning President George W. Bush of the consequences of military action in Iraq:
'You are going to be the proud owner of 25 million people,' he told the president. 'You will own all their hopes, aspirations, and problems. You'll own it all.' Privately, Powell and Deputy Secretary of State Richard Armitage called this the Pottery Barn rule: You break it, you own it.[4]
Powell confirmed the quotation on Jonathan Dimbleby's "Dimbleby" program on April 30, 2006.
Democratic candidate John Kerry cited the rule during the first debate of the 2004 Presidential election on September 30, 2004:
Powell denies using the term "pottery barn rule", but stated:
"It is said that I used the “Pottery Barn rule.” I never did it; [Thomas] Friedman did it … But what I did say … [is that] once you break it, you are going to own it, and we’re going to be responsible for 26 million people standing there looking at us. And it’s going to suck up a good 40 to 50 percent of the Army for years. And it’s going to take all the oxygen out of the political environment

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pottery_Barn_rule

Anyone that didn't see this coming lives with their head in the sand. Or someplace darker. And anyone thinking we can bomb the world into peace (or at least, into submission) lives in ignorance. And it this day and age it is willful.

“I do not think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.” - A. Lincoln