Actually you are forgetting Flamey that Helmet and I were in favor of maintaining our FDP with MD except it was MD who put the ultimatum on SoF to drop LAF or, in the words of MD of MD leadership, "be on the receiving end of some pain". It was when we decided not to drop LAF as a FDP that MD decided to not renew ours and subsequently FS us. Then MD pissed off Helmet in their war dec by lying about what Helmet had said and it was all over after that.

Also when SoF was not co-operating with MD as well as MD leadership had anticipated the blame was squarely directed at SoF's "IX component". Helmet was advised by the "wise" MD leadership to remove the IXers and just wear the membership loss in the interest's of furthering MD/SoF relations.

MD tried to make us choose between LAF and MD. LAF never asked us to choose anyone. We chose LAF.

Thanks for all the confirmations, I didn't even have to push the accusations! At least we agree on the history even if we disagree on the morality of it.

MD wanted to be #1, wow, what a crime in this game.

Hanlong hacked Boxcar while TC hacked the game and later Evo.

Flamey and SoF received the benefits of this cheating/hacking while denying it was happening.

When LaF was exposed for the lying/cheating/hacking they did against MD, MD asked SoF to drop LaF as an FULL DEFENSE PACT. SoF refused, MD threatened and down it went.

SO WOW... You agree you received info from cheaters and hackers, and you agree that you chose them over us.

But we are horrible for trying to get to #1 in the game. And the only thing that stopped us back then was hacking and cheating which you supported. AWESOME.

BTW, this is where you should stop posting since you've already made yourselves look like total pieces of fluff.

I had no knowledge of Hanlong's activities nor at the time did I have much contact with Hanlong. Flamey is the only one who was aware of Hanlong's access to boxcar, so you can say what you want about that.

You can say we look like pieces of fluff all you want, but as far as I am concerned MD showed that it is never really a reliable ally and will only serve it's own interests at it's own convenience.

It is pretty clear MD and SoF hate each other, right down to the very bone. I am fine with that. Let's continue the hate.

Flamey is right in that LaF showed SoF logs of me conspiring against LaF (shock horror because we suspected they were cheating! - oh and btw these logs were obtained by hacking boxcar). But misses three vital points;

1. We weren't conspiring against SoF (for example we never dropped SoF's FDP until AFTER it all went down, LaF was exposed and as Sov CORRECTLY points out discussions were had directly with Helmet asking SoF to side with MD post revelations etc)
2. Before we approached SOL/EVO or anyone else we told SoF of our suspicions and asked SoF to help us investigate / stand against LaF - you can confirm this with the then SoF VP Ivan.
3. You have admitted in the past that you knew the logs from LaF were obtained by cheating. We assume and I believe other SoF heads when they said to us you didn't pass this info on to them (how LaF got the logs)

It was Flamey more than anyone who caused SoF to side with LaF and create this conflict. LaF have fixed their house, SoF still haven't.

The fact that Helmet and Sov continued to let the wedge LaF created between MD/SoF (with such long history of being friends) is a cause of immense pain to us long-time MD'ers. Maybe we could have been softer (see what i did there!) on our ultimatum to SoF post LaF cheating, but Im sure people could see from our perspective how we'd want or expect in that situation having been vindicated and cheated against on such a massive scale to ask one of our most historic and longest standing FDP's to stand with us in that scenario.

You threatened us. Friends do not threaten friends. You were winning with Helmet and I until that point. I was actually your biggest supporter until you threatened SoF and then blamed me for SoF not backing you. You even tried to convince Helmet to get rid of me. Not the brightest move.

... which SoF did not. Great ally.

Tell the truth. You did not ask us to stand with you, you threatened us to stand with you "or else". Who is the great ally?

certain people / certain people.

DAMN, I was completely putting all this fluff behind me until you fluffed me in FA talks this set and hit us. I told you straight up - as far as we were concerned, all this fluff was behind us and we wanted to continue to let things cool and have a friendly with an ally.

SOF are the ones who WANT the hate to continue, as evidenced by the constant fanning of the flame(y)s here on AT.

We asked everyone in the EE community to stand with us. You declined. Then we threatened. Then you declined again.

Come on Sov... admit it. You "decided" there was more "benefit" for SoF in siding with LaF than MD. This has nothing to do with ethics because your leadership (esp. Flamey) had none. You made a pragmatic choice, not an ethical one.

That's your perspective. Frankly at that time SOL wanted to gangbang everyone involved (and I don't blame them and that included SoF). Staying with the MD FDP and leaving LaF was your ticket to avoid any involvement, MD was going to vouch for SoF completely and remove it from the mess. Helmet didn't believe I could do that and insisted I drop SOL as SoF drop LaF as collateral. I wasn't prepared to do that after SOL stood by us during the cheating episode and so that is where negotiations fell down. I did tell Helmet of this political reality. If you view that as a threat then I understand that but that was the substance of the emails between Helmet and I.

It wasn't until afterwards that what you describe above happened (me blaming you). And to be clear I blame Flamey 80%, Helmet 10% and you 10%. I'm sure you guys blame me and perhaps some other MD heads in similar quantities.

It is what it is now Sov. I don't really think there needs to be "hate". Is there love? Nope. But frankly there are like 10 people in this game left and if 6/7 of them are constantly going to fight on the same sides it will eventually destroy things.

Things change in Earth, lines shift and then they shift back and shift again. If we've gotten to the point where people aren't willing to forgive and forget (both sides) then the game gets repetitive to the extreme (remember the game mechanics don't change just the interpersonal relations).

If i've been willing to forgive LaF (for god sakes MD's been FDP'd to them for what a year?) - not that I control this but I also don't fight it at all then eventually guys like you (me) and makinso are going to need to "get over it".

Holy fluff, Arsenal sounds more calm than me. What is the world coming to?

We allowed you to gangbang LAF and we stood by and did nothing. That is pretty much the same as most Alliances in EE did in response to LAF's actions. We did not get involved when we could have clearly have FSed Evo and SOL (and won).

THEN you threatened.



Unlike MD I do not drop FDPs lightly nor do I FS them. I actually place significant value in all of my FDPs. Since I first became an Alliance leader in 2002 in MX I have never dropped a FDP and FSed them. I also have never threatened a FDP like you did with SoF. The ONLY reason why I remained even remotely sympathetic to LAF's position was that Son Goku, Don TOB and I have all been close friends since I was President of MX and we have always been allied. Don TOB is actually one of the closest friends I have had in this game ever to the point where he left LAF for a few sets after stepping down as Don to play in MX for me.

Can you honestly say you have never FSed a FDP? I can.

I would have gladly of maintained a pact with MD and LAF remaining neutral between the both and dealt with our own enemies as they lay.

Beating a dead horse here mders.

1.Sof supports cheaters. IF they can dodge the Hanlong Watergate with : " i didn't know - flamey knew or fluffcetera" ( like anyone believes that is possible) - they can not dodge inviting RD to outpost in Sof.

2.Sof does not want a challenge. They want advantages. The above mentioned, is done to gain the needed advantages. If someone would have had a multie bot and the admins of this game would have been lurking Mehul style - Sof would have allied the multie bot.

I don't really understand why you are still trying to score points with me?

MD's never FS'd an FDP either, we dropped you first. And I agree SoF did let LaF get gangbang'd that first reset. For MD and its vets it was more symbolic that SoF drop LaF. In our minds you were either "with us or against us" at that stage. You've goto understand it was the most massive case of cheating in earth history period and it had been done against us and it was admitted by the HFA of one of our longest and closest FDP's that he knew it was happening. You can see why we would want you guys to drop them or we'd no longer consider you friends.

If duplicity by a senior leader in a massive episode of cheating isn't grounds to re-examine a FDP relationship then nothing is. Don't paint it like we had no cause.

Either way this was like what 4 years ago. Surely we've moved on to new "outrages" =)

I am not trying to score points with you at all, I am stating what happened. And we did not bring this up, Atryn did.

Unfortunately Arsenal current MD leadership makes more effort in to trying to discredit me or isolate SoF rather than any real meaningful attempts at moving forward. Every time I have any dealings of any sort with MD it is coupled with MD twisting a knife into me (via the use of lies) with other Alliances.

And so the blood letting goes on.

Why wouldn't the blood letting go on?

MD has threatened us with a grudge war. MD is rallying allies to gangbang SoF next set and is doing the best it can to spin as many lies as possible about SoF. You think we should just sit back and take it? To believe we would do that is being naive.

If you think SoF will be bullied you are sorely mistaken.

Isolating?

Did MD and SoL both ask for pacts from LaF AND SoF this reset?
How is that isolating? Both of us asked for pacts from both of you specifically to prevent isolation.

You were allowed to have a 1v1 2 resets ago (not isolated)

You were allowed to not war last reset (not isolated)

I cannot speak for MD's pact but I know the SoL one that you have this reset and I believe last last contains out clauses that would not allow you to be isolated, because we have been trying to put this fluff behind us and move on.

We could have pounded you into the ground for 2 or 3 more resets when you WERE isolated and we didn't, against the wishes of our members. We came to the table and we pacted you guys. Something that you didn't do while you were working to isolate us and MD with your powerblock until RD got caught breaking the law and hacking the game (that you had "no idea" about, which turns out you that you sorta did with the country lists and names with personal information e-mail going around your side that was stolen from boxcar)

We decided that having a healthy SoF in this game, who appeared to have been going in the right direction bringing aponic back to FA, was better, and the right move.

You have solidified the argument of all of the people saying not to trust you, and that you would just fall right back into your old ways if given some room to regroup. With the BS grudge wars that YOU campaigned for us to drop just 3 resets ago, to which we did, because it was the right thing to do...you have gone right back to the grudge wars and backdoor scheming of old.

You "allowed" us. LOL

Look at you acting like you ruled the game and decided who does what. You only were able to do what LAF allowed you to. Unfortunately for you that latitude you once had is over.

And we only had 2 sets where you did NOT gangbang SoF, and in both of those sets LAF was not willing to let you do it so stop pretending that you had a choice and you were being forgiving.

You call it a grudge war... but when you run around lying to other leaders and trying to manipulate them away from SoF, that is isolating SoF and you should expect we will come for you. That is not a grudge, that is us defending ourselves.

But if this is the path we are to take then so be it. Let's do it.

I have a slight problem with any alliances believing that they control and must allow anything on this server.
Just who the fluff do you think you are? This is precisely why I guess something has to give, and from the looks of it, it will be sol.

If you believe that I was FDPed to SOL, recruited for SOL (yes personally recruited for SOL), helped SOL even up it's arranged war with Rival by sending 3 of my Heads (including Helmet himself!) to fight for SOL, helped SOL restructure itself internally, posted strategic and IA information and protected SOL... all because I was trying to isolate you from MD then you are seriously nothing short of retarded.

I helped SOL rebuild because I believed SOL deserved to be a power in the game and I have huge respect for Dragon and Suni (even though Suni was not honest to SOLers about my intentions with SOL after the friendship ended).

Let's not forget why SoF/SOL relations broke down now... Why don't we show everyone why SoF and SOL really ended up going to war and not the bullfluff propaganda you have been spinning so much that you now believe...

- SOL sent a tagjumper into MD in it's war with SoF.
- SOL sent mass FA to MD in breach of our pact in the war with SoF.
- SOL was at war with RD which SoF remained neutral in and did not get involved.
- SOL was losing and then certain SOLers tried to make 2 fully stocked and huge SoFers tagjump to SOL and break against RD countries, forcing us to kill one of those SoF members involved and alienate another.
- SOL then decided to actively try and "poach" IXers from SoF.
- SoF was upset and started some rhetoric aimed at deterring SOL from it's course of action. Suni was also informed that SoF believed it's issues could be resolved.
- SoF begins discussions with SOL to resolve the issue but SoF Heads were not contactable for a couple of days due to rl issues.
- SOL panics and posts on AT calling on anyone who hates SoF to join them in warring SoF.
- SOL gets Evo and Monsters to join them in gangbanging SoF oop.

I admit fault on my part about my posts (the rhetoric) on Facebook which I made to deter SOLers from causing trouble with SoF (which I also told Suni that we had issues that we could resolve), but i challenge you to find what SoF did wrong by SOL during our time as allies apart from the words I posted on Facebook.

But yes, go ahead and make it out like it was all to just isolate SOL and MD.

Just give up evol.

some of you really need to step away from the keyboard and go get some fresh air

What Ruthie said.
like really drop the four years ago and 7 sets and that and this set go. We read it every.damn.time.there.is.a.war.

Hahahhaah hahahhaah, that is rich, coming from you! Considering I have barely spoken to you for a year, and we have had few dealings with sof aside from pact discussions over the past 4-5 sets, it's hilarious to see you trying to discredit me personally with my allies. I mean honestly, what was the point of all that?

I don't try to discredit you, but I do tell people what I think about you. I do not try to isolate Evo or sway others from being pacted to Evo. There is a difference. I also do not lie to others about you to suit my goals unlike others as I have mentioned above.

Lol seriously ? Out of the whole earth community you are the promoter of honesty, trust and God know what other fantasies cross your head ...

Out of all this people, you are that one ?
Hahahahahahhahahahahhahaha! My Earth Idol, my sun and moon, i have 3 words for you :

IX
Hanlong
RD

Alin is like a Romanian Cerberus with his repetitive drivel and chants

i love this fluff

More Guns!!!

You need more Guns...

Unlike MD I do not drop FDPs lightly nor do I FS them. I actually place significant value in all of my FDPs. Since I first became an Alliance leader in 2002 in MX I have never dropped a FDP and FSed them. [/quote]

Didnt we drop LCN after Deci quit playing and FS them?

No, they FSed us in defense of MD. The drama there was they didn't like our UNAP offer at start of the set which you gave to them.

Never had a country tagged Hanlong or RD. Keep trying.

Hanlong ix rd boo hoo sets and sets ago. You have a grudge, no you do. You cheat! You knew they were cheating! You told my tag to eat it. You did it first. You lie. It went down like this. Waaaaaa. I wanted to let all of it go but you go do it again. Everyone hates you. No everyone hates you. I have logs. fluff balls vagina . Im neutral so what i say is the truth!
That is rich coming from you
With that all said
Irony
More crying and bleeding then some moral lessons
A war history lesson from set 5 forward
More crying finger pointing and more crying to come.
Its a tampon dispensers dream here.

No no no no no no !!!

That doesn't work here. None of this side can be accused of siding (TWICE) with cheaters of this game.

And Sov - stfu. You used Hanlong info and were part of RD.02

While SoL was FAing MD... SoF was getting FA from another alliance FIRST.... im not naming that alliance... i will let you all figure it out.

i think you need to have a little context to your post there chief...

Actually this is incorrect. Believe it if it makes you feel better though.

Context.. yeah.. forgot about that part. This was the way back war, that started this grudge war stuff.

Sov, it is very correct, sadly I no longer have the proof of it because of hardware failure, so unlike you, i will say it is your word against mine, and people can take it as they want. :)

Will it be this tread that finally everyone settles their differences so that folks can be butt hurt about current events instead of ancient bull fluff? If not, are the ones arguing at fault for the climate?

Actually it is not correct because what you guys were *trying* to accuse us of to justify your receiving of FA was so called "market manipulations" which was downright absurd. So no, we did not receive FA before you, you just accused us of having our allies manipulate the tech market to our advantage which everyone told you that you were idiots for.

http://www.earthempires.com/...ear-md-23264?t=1362467930

:)

Sigh...

This mess again?

I cannot speak for SOL, but we had no clauses anywhere stopping us from hitting SoF the last two sets. We honestly tried to end the grudge wars. I specifically told multiple alliance FA's before this set started that this was the first set I could remember where I felt we had no remaining beefs with anyone unresolved. And we wanted to keep that peace going a bit longer so the earth could continue to cool, hence the friendly.

But you decided war and grudges and hate and vitriol is "better" for SoF than peace.

Then why did your leaders then feel the need to undermine SoF with it's allies and lie about what was said in our meeting?

If I ever decide to get back into leadership, I think I would just insist on doing all FA in public sight to avoid all this crap. Plus imagine how fun that would be :)

What has always puzzled me though is how long some of you hold grudges and remember all this random fluff from a conversation had about a game 3 years ago. You were lied to, we were lied to. I lied. You lied. We all lie. In the end, we're playing a game and having fun. I just wish I would see less "SoF" in my attack screen during these war sets.

and here I was thinking it was all about me :(

Oh, and Sov. The only lie I think I ever told you (that I remember) was I think at one point you were thinking of offering us a friendly war with you or Rival or something like that, and we said we would consider it....we totally had our plans set to hit you like we told you we were going to do earlier. We also actively and heavily pursued FA in one war, I forget which one, because we were losing. You're welcome for the competitive fight :)

Seriously people, quit wasting your time discussing stale EE politics and at least fluff about the current ones.