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Trife Game profile

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5817

May 27th 2014, 21:11:18

martian Game profile

Game Moderator
Mod Boss
7826

May 27th 2014, 22:04:48

Stock market trading/prices is largely driven by a handful of wealthy individuals and large corporate accounts.
There is a lot of speculation that low interest rates and demographics are what is currently driving the current stock market rally overall. In any case, it probably has nothing to do with POTUS.
While corporate profits can/do drive share prices, so do dividend policies and a bunch of unrelated externalities (see above). Ironically the stock market is in a way a form of socialism: the workers can become the owners and it is a vehicle to redistribute wealth (through dividends) :P

you are all special in the eyes of fluff
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RUN IT IS A KILLER BUNNY!!!

SAM_DANGER Game profile

Member
1236

May 27th 2014, 23:27:21

+1 for martian.

https://www.google.com/#q=stock+market+highs+and+lows+history&revid=290368164

Based on that graph (if you choose the "max" timeframe) it looks to me like all of the following Presidents saw the markets reach an all time high:

Reagan
Bush I
Clinton
Bush: The Sequel
Obama

Looks like the only President during my lifetime who didn't see an "all time high" on the stock market was the financial wizard, Jimmy Carter.

Sarcasm aside, inflation is of course one of the main driving factors here.. as the value of the dollar goes down, the value of stocks (measured in dollars) goes up. Same goes for bread, candy bars, goats... everything.

Personally, I think most of the damage Obama has done to the US is yet to be seen. As a self employed person who has to buy his insurance as an individual, my health insurance premiums have more than doubled, and my deductibles increased by more than 25%... all so that I no longer have a "sub standard" plan.. Now I have one that covers a bunch of garbage I will never never ever need. So indeed, thanks Obama!

As the cost of health insurance and care is driven higher for everyone when the rest of Obamacare's Federal meddling kicks in, I can't imagine that will have a positive impact on the economy of the US. Maybe I'm wrong on that... I'm certainly no economics expert. It just seems to me that forcing everyone to pay an insurance company's markup on every possible conceivable health expense they might ever have during their lifetime is a bad thing.

BTW martian, interesting point on the stock market / socialism comparison. You're right... with the difference between the two being that one of them is voluntary for all parties involved, while the other is accomplished by force.

KoHeartsGPA Game profile

Member
EE Patron
29,488

May 27th 2014, 23:30:17

SAM, I love you bro! :-)
Mess with me you better kill me, or I'll just take your pride & joy and jack it up
(•_•)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6VRMGTwU4I
-=TSO~DKnights~ICD~XI~LaF=-

S.F. Giants 2010, 2012, 2014 World Series Champions, fluff YEAH!

Pang Game profile

Administrator
Game Development
5731

May 27th 2014, 23:30:39

Originally posted by SAM_DANGER:
Looks like the only President during my lifetime who didn't see an "all time high" on the stock market was the financial wizard, Jimmy Carter.


He's history's greatest monster!
-=Pang=-
Earth Empires Staff
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SAM_DANGER Game profile

Member
1236

May 27th 2014, 23:39:20

Originally posted by KoHeartsGPA:
SAM, I love you bro! :-)


I'LL BET I CAN MAKE YOU HATE ME! LETS TALK ABOUT GAY MARRIAGE! OR PROSTITUTION. OR ENDING THE WAR ON DRUGS.

:)

SAM
DIRECTOR OF THE OFFICE OF CONTRARIANISM,
THE MIGHTY CLAN [DANGER]!

Pang Game profile

Administrator
Game Development
5731

May 27th 2014, 23:42:33

PS, you Americans need to just bite the bullet and move to universal health care. You'd think it would be a national security issue since the health of the population is what keeps it/its economy strong.

The way the Affordable Care Act was implemented is really stupid. It was an OK bill when it was pie in the sky but the way it was watered down in terms of how it impacted the actual delivery and pricing of healthcare made it pretty useless. In the end, it became more of a political football that needed to be brought past the goal line rather than something that will actually have an appreciable positive effect on the US as a whole.

The only realistic way to tackle that problem is to move to a single-payer model of some form so that everyone is on an even playing field for the care they can get. That makes the mandate focus on delivery of services rather than optimization of profit by the person who actually foots the bill for it.

I don't like the government having its hands in too many things but health care is one I think they should definitely run. Health care + defence + infrastructure are what you should receive for being a tax paying citizen, IMO.
-=Pang=-
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Goofy Game profile

Member
415

May 28th 2014, 0:08:24

Sam, I am not self employed and my premiums have been going up for years along with my co pays and deductibles. That problem has been around way before Obama.

SAM_DANGER Game profile

Member
1236

May 28th 2014, 0:33:28

Yes, premiums were increasing before Obamacare went into effect. But by normal, manageable amounts. My premiums were going up at a rate of single digit percentages. Once Obamacare hit me, they doubled literally overnight.

I suspect the same will happen to others when their employer-provided plans are hit by this ridiculous law. It may not be as obvious to them, but there's no way premiums stay reasonable when insurers are forced to cover literally everything.. even things almost everyone could afford to pay for on their own (before)

braden Game profile

Member
11,480

May 28th 2014, 0:40:30

im buying into berkshire hathaway

Angel1 Game profile

Member
837

May 28th 2014, 1:15:11

"Well you have to pass it to find out what's in it." - Obamacare in a nutshell.

Never again...Never again should we let congress pass a bill and then find out what's in it.

The only logical way to deal with the exploding costs of healthcare is to eliminate the middleman from all predictable care needs (health insurance or universal government healthcare) and move to a system where catastrophic care is covered either through insurance or universal government catastrophic healthcare. Whether its insurance profits or government bureaucracy doesn't matter because they are both driving up the cost of care we will need; they are an added cost to predictable care and they add absolutely NO value. By allowing capitalism to drive the cost of predictable care to its lowest point, you can make county (in the US) healthcare clinics (that charge based on your ability to pay) more affordable to friends and neighbors that will want their communities to be better places to live generally (though they themselves won't use the clinics).
-Angel1

braden Game profile

Member
11,480

May 28th 2014, 1:59:46

do what canada does, take your smokers, excise the fluffing fluff out of them, funnel it into your healthcare and then legislate away their being allowed to live along with all the immigrants at the emergency room with their seven infant children all with coughs or running noses.

no mooslim or sri lankan doctors opening practices in toronto, or what?


(just waiting to get banned :P)

ssewellusmc

Member
2431

May 28th 2014, 2:18:03

Originally posted by Angel1:
"Well you have to pass it to find out what's in it." - Obamacare in a nutshell.

Never again...Never again should we let congress pass a bill and then find out what's in it.

The only logical way to deal with the exploding costs of healthcare is to eliminate the middleman from all predictable care needs (health insurance or universal government healthcare) and move to a system where catastrophic care is covered either through insurance or universal government catastrophic healthcare. Whether its insurance profits or government bureaucracy doesn't matter because they are both driving up the cost of care we will need; they are an added cost to predictable care and they add absolutely NO value. By allowing capitalism to drive the cost of predictable care to its lowest point, you can make county (in the US) healthcare clinics (that charge based on your ability to pay) more affordable to friends and neighbors that will want their communities to be better places to live generally (though they themselves won't use the clinics).


Wrong. The middleman drives costsdown by negotiating lower rates. You could have cut healthcare costs in half by enacting tort reform to stop all the bullfluff lawsuits. Half of what a doctor charges relates to liability costs.

The other major factor that could have lowered healthcare costs is to make saving for healthcare expenses more favorable (they did the opposite) by letting this whom are at risk of serious medical costs save more in a HSA/FSA. The other substantial portion of healthcare costs is paying for the dipfluffs who skip out on their bill.

These two things would have substantially lowered healthcare costs and wouldn't have required a fascist government to fluff up a good healthca healthcare system.

KoHeartsGPA Game profile

Member
EE Patron
29,488

May 28th 2014, 3:02:16

Originally posted by SAM_DANGER:
Originally posted by KoHeartsGPA:
SAM, I love you bro! :-)


I'LL BET I CAN MAKE YOU HATE ME! LETS TALK ABOUT GAY MARRIAGE! OR PROSTITUTION. OR ENDING THE WAR ON DRUGS.

:)

SAM
DIRECTOR OF THE OFFICE OF CONTRARIANISM,
THE MIGHTY CLAN (DANGER)!


You're on, hit with your best shot!
Mess with me you better kill me, or I'll just take your pride & joy and jack it up
(•_•)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6VRMGTwU4I
-=TSO~DKnights~ICD~XI~LaF=-

S.F. Giants 2010, 2012, 2014 World Series Champions, fluff YEAH!

Trife Game profile

Member
5817

May 28th 2014, 3:25:06

too many facts and words in posts above

not enough thanks obamas

KoHeartsGPA Game profile

Member
EE Patron
29,488

May 28th 2014, 4:10:39

Originally posted by Trife:
too many facts and words in posts above

not enough thanks obamas


fluff Obama!
Mess with me you better kill me, or I'll just take your pride & joy and jack it up
(•_•)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6VRMGTwU4I
-=TSO~DKnights~ICD~XI~LaF=-

S.F. Giants 2010, 2012, 2014 World Series Champions, fluff YEAH!

Angel1 Game profile

Member
837

May 28th 2014, 10:02:41

I'll thank Obama the day after he leaves office...for getting out. He has one piece of significant legislation and that's collapsing under it's own "We have to pass it to find out what's in it" weight. Passed it, don't like it, and the most painful provisions haven't even been enacted in accordance with the Obamacare law. Oddly enough, as I write this, I'm listening to a song called "You're Tears are Comin'", that pretty much sums up those people who still like Obamacare.
-Angel1

iTarl Game profile

Member
879

May 28th 2014, 10:57:08

I also like paying $4 for a gallon of fuel

iScode Game profile

Member
5718

May 28th 2014, 11:03:50

Thanks Obama!
iScode
God of War


DEATH TO SOV!

Atryn Game profile

Member
2149

May 28th 2014, 12:18:16

macmd Game profile

Member
158

May 28th 2014, 12:35:42

Originally posted by Angel1:
"Well you have to pass it to find out what's in it." - Obamacare in a nutshell.

Never again...Never again should we let congress pass a bill and then find out what's in it.


Pretty sure that's what happens with most legislation.

trumper Game profile

Member
1557

May 28th 2014, 15:08:58

Previous highs were recorded during the Presidencies of GWB, Clinton, Bush Sr, Reagan, Carter, Nixon, etc:

https://www.google.com/...4HoCA&ved=0CCgQ2AEwAA

Trife Game profile

Member
5817

May 28th 2014, 19:48:45

FailDiegoFail Game profile

Member
184

May 29th 2014, 3:04:08

lol SAM_DANGER...you a libertarian or do you just really not like government :D

crest23 Game profile

Member
4666

May 29th 2014, 3:26:37

Originally posted by Trife:


Haha, you try too hard, I tried going to the website in the picture and of course, it was created by none other than Trife himself. EPIC FAIL bro. Liberalism is STILL a mental disorder.
The Nigerian Nightmare.

KoHeartsGPA Game profile

Member
EE Patron
29,488

May 29th 2014, 5:39:27

Originally posted by crest23:
Originally posted by Trife:


Haha, you try too hard, I tried going to the website in the picture and of course, it was created by none other than Trife himself. EPIC FAIL bro. Liberalism is STILL a mental disorder.


LOL, you just made my day!
Mess with me you better kill me, or I'll just take your pride & joy and jack it up
(•_•)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6VRMGTwU4I
-=TSO~DKnights~ICD~XI~LaF=-

S.F. Giants 2010, 2012, 2014 World Series Champions, fluff YEAH!

SAM_DANGER Game profile

Member
1236

May 29th 2014, 5:49:47

Hi FDF! When I saw you were no longer leading RAGE, I was afraid you'd quit the game. Glad to see you're still around, because I think you're a pretty stand-up guy.

Yes, I am indeed a libertarian. More specifically, I'm a recovering conservative. And just to clarify, I don't hate government. I hate to be ruled. I believe the function of government should be to protect the liberty of it's citizens against those who wish to take it away. Over the last century, while we've fixed some problems, we've moved more and more to a government which actively takes away the liberty of it's citizens, under the guise of providing security.

KoHeartsGPA Game profile

Member
EE Patron
29,488

May 29th 2014, 5:59:36

Originally posted by SAM_DANGER:
Yes, I am indeed a libertarian. More specifically, I'm a recovering conservative. And just to clarify, I don't hate government. I hate to be ruled. I believe the function of government should be to protect the liberty of it's citizens against those who wish to take it away. Over the last century, while we've fixed some problems, we've moved more and more to a government which actively takes away the liberty of it's citizens, under the guise of providing security.


Welcome to the club, thanks for seeing the light!
Mess with me you better kill me, or I'll just take your pride & joy and jack it up
(•_•)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6VRMGTwU4I
-=TSO~DKnights~ICD~XI~LaF=-

S.F. Giants 2010, 2012, 2014 World Series Champions, fluff YEAH!

The Cloaked Game profile

Member
491

May 29th 2014, 7:19:18

bonus

Atryn Game profile

Member
2149

May 29th 2014, 12:22:00

Originally posted by crest23:
Originally posted by Trife:


Haha, you try too hard, I tried going to the website in the picture and of course, it was created by none other than Trife himself. EPIC FAIL bro. Liberalism is STILL a mental disorder.


huh?

KoHeartsGPA Game profile

Member
EE Patron
29,488

May 29th 2014, 13:29:54

Originally posted by Atryn:
Originally posted by crest23:
Originally posted by Trife:


Haha, you try too hard, I tried going to the website in the picture and of course, it was created by none other than Trife himself. EPIC FAIL bro. Liberalism is STILL a mental disorder.


huh?


He said you drink the cool aid too.
Mess with me you better kill me, or I'll just take your pride & joy and jack it up
(•_•)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6VRMGTwU4I
-=TSO~DKnights~ICD~XI~LaF=-

S.F. Giants 2010, 2012, 2014 World Series Champions, fluff YEAH!

martian Game profile

Game Moderator
Mod Boss
7826

May 29th 2014, 14:25:28

claiming the opposing viewpoint is a mental illness, known tactics of communists, fascists, and dictators everywhere.
you are all special in the eyes of fluff
(|(|
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RUN IT IS A KILLER BUNNY!!!

mrford Game profile

Member
21,352

May 29th 2014, 14:32:05

Being a Martian is a mental illness
Swagger of a Chupacabra

[21:37:01] <&KILLERfluffY> when I was doing FA stuff for sof the person who gave me the longest angry rant was Mr Ford

Makolyte Game profile

Member
445

May 29th 2014, 17:22:01

Good.
--------------------------------------------
Alliance: VP of Death Knights
FFA: XI warrior
--------------------------------------------

FailDiegoFail Game profile

Member
184

May 31st 2014, 5:58:14

Originally posted by KoHeartsGPA:
Originally posted by SAM_DANGER:
Yes, I am indeed a libertarian. More specifically, I'm a recovering conservative. And just to clarify, I don't hate government. I hate to be ruled. I believe the function of government should be to protect the liberty of it's citizens against those who wish to take it away. Over the last century, while we've fixed some problems, we've moved more and more to a government which actively takes away the liberty of it's citizens, under the guise of providing security.


Welcome to the club, thanks for seeing the light!


o.o Theres more of us? fluff guys. And yeah SAM_DANGER thanks, I still want to stick around to help the alliance out where I can. Haven't quit yet :P
And you're pretty much where I stand on what government should do. Too bad it seems a lot of people feel like they are owed something from the government just for existing (and then expect not to pay for it in the end, ie healthcare). Canadians can gloat all they want about free healthcare but at least for now Americans pay lower taxes. Just like simple conglomerates are usually less efficient than specialized businesses because they don't focus on their 'core competency', government being involved in every part of life means they don't focus on a core competency. Of course, that assumes that they're actually good at something :P


At the end of the day everyone should realize that 'theres no free lunch'. I'm sure most liberals mean well when they want social programs but just because you write something on a piece of paper it doesn't change the economics.

mdevol Game profile

Member
3223

May 31st 2014, 10:53:17



I love that unemployment figure.

Labor Participation Rate (Labor force) (% of working age Americans actively employed or looking for work)
Jan 2009 - 65.7%
Today - 62.8% (lowest since 1977)


Labor force in 2009 -
154,200,000 of 235,692,400 @ 7.8% = 142,172,400 employed = 12,027,600 unemployed.

81,492,400 not in labor force


Labor force today -
155,724,000 of 247,439,000 @ 6.7% = 145,266,000 employed and 10,458,000 unemployed

91,361,000 not in labor force

if you adjust the #s for the 2009 labor force participation rate with today's total population and employment stats it looks like this.

162,567,423 of 247,439,000 -- 145,266,000 employed = 17,301,432 unemployed = 10.6% unemployment

this doesn't not include the millions of illegals here working and the millions more crossing every year.



How this is relevant is that due to a 10 million person exodus of the labor force due to a stumbling economy, the unemployment rate has managed to drop simply because we are no longer losing more jobs than we are participation in the labor force. While there are jobs being created, not fast enough. Large part because of the uncertainty of the markets which are being artificially inflated by the federal reserve.

Once he feds stop with the QE garbage, stock will likely crash 15-20% pretty much overnight, sending the economy into even more turmoil. It HAS to happen as they cannot just continue quantitative easing until the end of time. It will stop and the markets will crash. That is how economy works. The more false securities pumped into the stock markets now, the more that will be lost when it crashes once the pull the plug on QE and raise the interest rates to where they should be.

You can ignore the critics, you can ignore the commentary, you can ignore history, but you simply cannot ignore the math.




Surely what a man does when he is caught off his guard is the best evidence as to what sort of man he is. - C.S. Lewis

MauricXe Game profile

Member
575

Jun 1st 2014, 14:30:18

hail hydra

INVINCIBLE IRONMAN Game profile

Member
624

Jun 1st 2014, 15:32:04

Originally posted by martian:
Stock market trading/prices is largely driven by a handful of wealthy individuals and large corporate accounts.
There is a lot of speculation that low interest rates and demographics are what is currently driving the current stock market rally overall. In any case, it probably has nothing to do with POTUS.
While corporate profits can/do drive share prices, so do dividend policies and a bunch of unrelated externalities (see above). Ironically the stock market is in a way a form of socialism: the workers can become the owners and it is a vehicle to redistribute wealth (through dividends) :P


Redistribute wealth??
Homey said what??

INVINCIBLE IRONMAN Game profile

Member
624

Jun 1st 2014, 15:36:41

Originally posted by braden:
im buying into berkshire hathaway

About 30-40 years too late

mdevol Game profile

Member
3223

Jun 4th 2014, 9:32:19

Originally posted by MauricXe:
hail hydra


HYDRA loses...
Surely what a man does when he is caught off his guard is the best evidence as to what sort of man he is. - C.S. Lewis

Stryke Game profile

Member
2068

Jun 4th 2014, 11:33:40

Originally posted by Angel1:
"Well you have to pass it to find out what's in it." - Obamacare in a nutshell.

Never again...Never again should we let Congress pass a bill and then find out what's in it...


And yet we allowed Congress to do the same thing with the USA PATRIOT Act II.
SOTA (President/HFA) • Elders • Darkness
http://sota.ghqnet.com

a.k.a. NightShade
Originally posted by kemo:
this dudes either a great troll or a seriously stupid fluff. the kind that takes the pepsi challenge and chooses jiff

Hobo Game profile

Member
698

Jun 4th 2014, 21:43:59

Originally posted by mrford:
Being a Martian is a mental illness


Being mrford is a sin and will be punished by Jesus via lightning ASAP.

SakitSaPuwit Game profile

Member
1097

Jun 5th 2014, 0:33:53

Obama encouraged me to retire early and move to a tropical island.
Thanks Mr. President!
but what do i know?
I only play this game for fun!

Trife Game profile

Member
5817

Jun 5th 2014, 17:21:40

woot we've just now recovered all the jobs that were lost as a result of GWB's recession

thanks obama!

KoHeartsGPA Game profile

Member
EE Patron
29,488

Jun 5th 2014, 17:29:57

Woot, we've just negotiated with the Taliban!!!

Hooray!

Thanks Obama!!
Mess with me you better kill me, or I'll just take your pride & joy and jack it up
(•_•)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6VRMGTwU4I
-=TSO~DKnights~ICD~XI~LaF=-

S.F. Giants 2010, 2012, 2014 World Series Champions, fluff YEAH!

KoHeartsGPA Game profile

Member
EE Patron
29,488

Jun 10th 2014, 1:23:56

Thank you Mr Obama for showing to the world that you can be tough and lift weights, that was a good laugh!!!

Thanks Obama!!
Mess with me you better kill me, or I'll just take your pride & joy and jack it up
(•_•)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6VRMGTwU4I
-=TSO~DKnights~ICD~XI~LaF=-

S.F. Giants 2010, 2012, 2014 World Series Champions, fluff YEAH!