Outrunning retals - Earth Empires Forum

iScode

Member
5718

Apr 23rd 2013, 4:54:25

Why do people think that this is not ok?

What is wrong with doing a retal, then spending money to buy up defence so the other person can not retal? When has this ever been an issue?

Is it not the point of grabbing someone to ensue he can not retal or he gets less in his retal so you ultimately gain?

its cropped up the last 3-4 sets and was just wondering why people have an issue with this, cause I simply do not understand why its an issue.

iScode
God of War

DEATH TO SOV!

highrock

Member
564

Apr 23rd 2013, 4:58:49

It's fine in principle, but then the other alliance will decide to do the same thing to one of your clanmates, and then it escalates.

formerly Viola MD

iScode

Member
5718

Apr 23rd 2013, 5:13:51

then my clanmate needs better defence :P

iScode
God of War

DEATH TO SOV!

Iamminghui

Member
176

Apr 23rd 2013, 5:28:56

It is easy for you to say when your are the one outrunning, while if you are on the receiving end one day, look back at this post and see if you have similar opinions or not.. Not to say you are wrong, or if this is right.. It is where we stand I guess..

OrigOzzyB

Member
164

Apr 23rd 2013, 5:30:05

If you cant defend your land. You don't deserve to keep it.

iScode

Member
5718

Apr 23rd 2013, 5:30:10

I have been in a situation where I couldn't retal before, I offered up to my allies, was no biggie.

iScode
God of War

DEATH TO SOV!

Mr Charcoal

Member
993

Apr 23rd 2013, 5:36:44

Theres nothing wrong with it.... If you can hide out while their retal policy window closes then have at-er! That being said, Im going to ask a question myself.

Originally posted by NOW3P:

Religion is like a penis - it's perfectly fine to have one, but you're best served not whipping it out in public and waving it in people's faces.

Iamminghui

Member
176

Apr 23rd 2013, 5:37:54

Suuure.. That's why I say.. There's no right or wrong.. The game mechanics are as such.. Rules are made up.. So it's very subjective.. Like how ozzy said, u can't defend your land, u dun deserve to keep it.. But don't forget, alliance server involves politics between clans.. So individual perception may not necessary matter alliance wise..

Mr Charcoal

Member
993

Apr 23rd 2013, 5:38:46

Who's retal policy do you abide by?

Alliance #1 hits Alliance #2.

Does #2 follow it's OWN retal policy?

Should #1 accept #2's policy under the old "should have looked it up first" rule?

Should #2 follow #1's policy, no matter how one-sided it may be?

Originally posted by NOW3P:

Religion is like a penis - it's perfectly fine to have one, but you're best served not whipping it out in public and waving it in people's faces.

bertz

Member
1638

Apr 23rd 2013, 5:48:20

It is an issue here in Alliance Server because we have so many semi-active players who whines when someone do this to them.
I think almost all clans have that kind of players who does not want to be touched. Any way, if you are trying to outrun retals then this would mean you are not allied to that clan. So it's how can they complain with that? You're not allies anyway :)

Flamey

Member
895

Apr 23rd 2013, 5:49:23

That depends on a number of things. Alliances usually follow the others retal policies, but it all depends on the fairness of the policies, how powerful the alliances are, or whether one or both sides are willing to war.

Darakna

Member
312

Apr 23rd 2013, 6:26:35

SoF could probably tag kill LCN in about 36-48 hours...

Just remember that LCN.

Mr Charcoal

Member
993

Apr 23rd 2013, 6:35:02

Im not quite sure what all that's about....

Originally posted by NOW3P:

Religion is like a penis - it's perfectly fine to have one, but you're best served not whipping it out in public and waving it in people's faces.

Darakna

Member
312

Apr 23rd 2013, 6:53:40

Are you in LCN?

locket

Member
6176

Apr 23rd 2013, 7:18:19

No one likes it when Laf does this. My opinion is that it is fine if you are doing it to benefit your country but I think it is BS when people just do it to fluff around or mess with someone else.

flgatorboy89

Member
1620

Apr 23rd 2013, 7:40:48

I up my def anytime i think the person i grab will retal with more gains than i did.

Jon
ZT, SoL

<jon> off to bed fluffbeater :p
<mrford> i dont beat fluffs
<mrford> i eat them
<mrford> gosh
<jon> well, fluffeater
<Kat> oookay....

iScode

Member
5718

Apr 23rd 2013, 7:52:07

well this thread wasn't actually aimed at LCN Darkna, I have seen this same issue brought up before, and couldn't understand it.

The recent lcn discussion, just made me wonder what the rest of the community thought, was definitely not my intention to bring any particular alliance in to this thread, more to get just peoples opinion, not the opinion of any alliance.

iScode
God of War

DEATH TO SOV!

locket

Member
6176

Apr 23rd 2013, 8:37:15

Darakna there are other ways to settle disputes other than threatening people and killing everything.

XiQter MD

Member
261

Apr 23rd 2013, 8:54:07

trying to do it at this stage of the set is retarded, there is no way you can outrun a retal unless its country:country, all you will do is up your nw and increase your losses.

Later in the set there is a limit where it becomes unprofitable to claim a retal, this is where you have a legitimate reason to start whining.

And then we have the classic farm all you can before you destock, now thats unclassy.

bertz

Member
1638

Apr 23rd 2013, 9:10:59

LaF did this to Evo last me thinks. I forgot if they succeeded in outrunning the retal.

locket

Member
6176

Apr 23rd 2013, 9:32:06

Last time Laf did it when I was still there they did outrun it but it was early when it was actually beneficial. Evo found a different way to deter it though which shows perhaps why they are actually good at netting :P

NukEvil

Member
4327

Apr 23rd 2013, 11:05:02

Originally posted by iScode:

...What is wrong with doing a retal, then spending money to buy up defence so the other person can not retal? When has this ever been an issue?...

That has been an issue since the beginning of the game itself. If the other country goes ahead with its "retal" anyways, most of us would call that a RoR.

I am a troll. Everything I say must be assumed to be said solely to provoke an exaggerated reaction to the current topic. I fully intend to bring absolutely no substance to any discussion, ongoing or otherwise. Conversing with me is pointless.

Darakna

Member
312

Apr 23rd 2013, 11:22:32

Originally posted by locket:

Darakna there are other ways to settle disputes other than threatening people and killing everything.

Noooo, lies!

Kumander Otbol

Member
728

Apr 23rd 2013, 11:43:36

Originally posted by OrigOzzyB:

If you cant defend your land. You don't deserve to keep it.

Originally posted by cypress:

no reason to start slacking just because they are getting FA

fluff them....we'll steamroll them even with the FA they are getting

SolidSnake

Member
867

Apr 23rd 2013, 12:23:51

If you're grabbing with the intention of being retaled, then you should just give up on grabbing because you're very bad.

tellarion

Member
3906

Apr 23rd 2013, 12:38:39

Originally posted by Kumander Otbol:

Originally posted by OrigOzzyB:

If you cant defend your land. You don't deserve to keep it.

Except that this is a stupid argument. With the way the game is structured, nobody can ever be safe from grabs. Unless you are saying that moody deserves their land...

Atryn

Member
2149

Apr 23rd 2013, 12:56:36

Originally posted by iScode:

Hmmm... you have not been in SoF long enough. You need to practice your hostility. Go stand in front of a mirror and pound your chest for a while. Meditate on the posts of Darkana, Flamey and mrford.

iNouda

Member
1043

Apr 23rd 2013, 13:14:16

Originally posted by Atryn:

Originally posted by iScode:

Hmmm... you have not been in SoF long enough. You need to practice your hostility. Go stand in front of a mirror and pound your chest for a while. Meditate on the posts of Darkana, Flamey and mrford.

Trife

Member
5817

Apr 23rd 2013, 14:46:52

Originally posted by Darakna:

SoF could probably tag kill LCN in about 36-48 hours...

Just remember that LCN.

On behalf of LCN, my sincerest apologies for retaliating landgrabs that were made on us.

H4xOr WaNgEr

Forum Moderator
1932

Apr 23rd 2013, 16:51:29

Originally posted by tellarion:

Originally posted by Kumander Otbol:

Originally posted by OrigOzzyB:

If you cant defend your land. You don't deserve to keep it.

Except that this is a stupid argument. With the way the game is structured, nobody can ever be safe from grabs. Unless you are saying that moody deserves their land...

errr... yes and if you have a strong defence and someone breaks you then you are in one of 2 situations:

1) they are an easy break for you because they are offence heavy, so you can get your land back and likely at a relatively low unit cost.

2) you can't break them and thus you can't get your land back (this would fall into the "you don't deserve to keep it" category.

I do not see the flaw in this argument.

H4xOr WaNgEr

Forum Moderator
1932

Apr 23rd 2013, 16:55:27

PS there is nothing wrong with outrunning retals.

THe people that see a problem with it are the people that believe they are entitled to not be attacked, and that attacks against them constitute some sort of moral injustice.

As if this wasn't a game predicated on attacking others or something.

NukEvil

Member
4327

Apr 23rd 2013, 16:55:57

Originally posted by Trife:

Originally posted by Darakna:

SoF could probably tag kill LCN in about 36-48 hours...

Just remember that LCN.

On behalf of LCN, my sincerest apologies for retaliating landgrabs that were made on us.

On behalf of LCN, SoF can continue to lick their own genitals.

It's what lapdogs do, after all.

tellarion

Member
3906

Apr 23rd 2013, 16:59:43

Originally posted by H4xOr WaNgEr:

Originally posted by tellarion:

Originally posted by Kumander Otbol:

Originally posted by OrigOzzyB:

If you cant defend your land. You don't deserve to keep it.

Except that this is a stupid argument. With the way the game is structured, nobody can ever be safe from grabs. Unless you are saying that moody deserves their land...

Except Sof only does 1:1 retals.

Syko_Killa

Member
5013

Apr 23rd 2013, 17:00:08

I believe in it iscode

Do as I say, not as I do.

Requiem

Member

EE Patron
9092

Apr 23rd 2013, 17:02:29

Outrunning is ok. It can piss people off but if you can't retal then you don't deserve your land IMO.

H4xOr WaNgEr

Forum Moderator
1932

Apr 23rd 2013, 17:32:16

Originally posted by tellarion:

Originally posted by H4xOr WaNgEr:

Originally posted by tellarion:

Originally posted by Kumander Otbol:

Originally posted by OrigOzzyB:

If you cant defend your land. You don't deserve to keep it.

Except that this is a stupid argument. With the way the game is structured, nobody can ever be safe from grabs. Unless you are saying that moody deserves their land...

Except Sof only does 1:1 retals.

That is politics for you I guess heh.

Requiem

Member

EE Patron
9092

Apr 23rd 2013, 17:33:41

We pact SoF ne ways so we don't need to worry about their policy :p

Schilling

Member
455

Apr 23rd 2013, 19:42:00

They way I remember it, I would save up some cash, find a land fatty in my scores and grab him. Build. Find another fatty, repeat.

At the end: use left over cash to purchase defense and techs that help in defense. From there, I would hope they enjoyed their new higher tech levels and leanness, but I always at least tried to outrun the retal in case they felt entitled (and, if they can retal, they are).

I never took land away from anyone resigning myself to their retals. This is a competitive game (or it's supposed to be), after all.

Revelix

New Member
4

Apr 23rd 2013, 20:57:11

If you do this and get into war - don't cry about it.

archaic

Member
7012

Apr 23rd 2013, 21:53:32

Its generally impossible to outrun a retal from a midfeed target, all you're really accomplishing is hurting your finish and your targets finish by forcing both of you to buy a ton of military. Doing something that deliberately hurts both sides is spiteful and rude and hence frowned upon. Its usually 4th tier players like iScode that raise this subject.

;p

Cheating Mod Hall of Shame: Dark Morbid, Turtle Crawler, Sov

Schilling

Member
455

Apr 23rd 2013, 23:57:40

+1 for the dig on Scode, but you miss my point.

The game is to be competitive, correct? This includes making sure you have enough defense to hold your land and hold back the suiciders that you're bottom feeding on. I understand that while it may be impossible to out run a mid feed retal, it's also nearly impossible to out run a grab. Which is why people hide behind policies and tags to make up for weaknesses.

It is not "spiteful" or "rude", in the sense of the game competitiveness to take away from someone in an attempt to gain for yourself. Bottom feeding follows the same principle. The difference is you're hitting people that you know in advance can't hit you back. With mid feeding you're simply adding the step of making it harder and more costly to retal after the fact. If one is "spiteful" and "rude" then so is the other.

The harsh truth to this is we aren't all winners. Policy and tag protection doesn't change that.

Maybe we should recommend to qz that at the end of the set we all get a ranking of #1 so we all feel better about having our land taken away...

Darakna

Member
312

Apr 24th 2013, 0:00:09

Originally posted by Trife:

Originally posted by Darakna:

SoF could probably tag kill LCN in about 36-48 hours...

Just remember that LCN.

On behalf of LCN, my sincerest apologies for retaliating landgrabs that were made on us.

You should be sorry, when you are so small... you should be sorry for just existing!

H4xOr WaNgEr

Forum Moderator
1932

Apr 24th 2013, 0:03:47

I like this schilling guy.

lenshark

Member
177

Apr 24th 2013, 1:06:24

+1 flamey

nothing is wrong with out-running retals. the only time it becomes a trouble is when ppl do it for the purpose of screwing up somebody - i.e topfeeding.

if you're doing it the same way laf do it, then no biggie, becuz it's always gonna be for competition.

Cerberus

Member

EE Patron
3849

Apr 24th 2013, 1:06:45

Originally posted by Iamminghui:

This post apparently says nothing at all. Sounds like a politician wrote it. Lands squarely on the fence.

I don't need anger management, people need to stop pissing me off!

Cerberus

Member

EE Patron
3849

Apr 24th 2013, 1:08:28

Originally posted by OrigOzzyB:

If you cant defend your land. You don't deserve to keep it.

How many times have I posted this exact same sentiment? Countless times. If you can't defend it, it don't belong to you.

I don't need anger management, people need to stop pissing me off!

Unsympathetic

Member
364

Apr 24th 2013, 1:10:30

Demo techer ring of midfeeders ftw

Trife

Member
5817

Apr 24th 2013, 2:40:31

Originally posted by Darakna:

You should be sorry, when you are so small

that's what she said!

iScode

Member
5718

Apr 24th 2013, 3:58:19

Originally posted by archaic:

lol at hurting my finish, 99% of the time any country im playing will be involved in a war and my country will die, i grab to ensure until i do die i can output as many damaging hits as possible.

iScode
God of War

DEATH TO SOV!

Darakna

Member
312

Apr 24th 2013, 4:24:10

Originally posted by Trife:

Originally posted by Darakna:

You should be sorry, when you are so small

that's what she said!

Well played Michael Scott, well played.