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Twain Game profile

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Jul 13th 2012, 14:32:31

A few notes about this: Feel free to criticize or correct things. I don’t mind as long as you aren’t attacking me personally. I don’t claim these are perfect, as I can’t possibly know everything about every clan, so I simply offer these as MY perspective on the distribution of power in FFA. As I’m a netgainer and as netgaining stats are far easier to find than warring stats, they may skew towards netgaining being more important than warring, so if your clan is ranked too low and you’ve been warring a lot, that’s probably the case.

I also take into account past performances, because in many cases, so if your clan's success is all pretty recent, you may not get the respect other clans do.

Lastly, I would say that while I’ve tried to put them in the order I believe they should be, clans within a tier are easily exchangeable. Clearly NBK could be considered anywhere from #1 to #3 depending on the weight you put on netgaining vs. warring skills, and you might argue that some of the smaller clans could be moved around a lot, but those are also the clans that I don’t know as much about.

Top Tier Clans

TKO – TNW is the crown that matters most for large netting clans, and they’ve virtually owned that crown since they took it for the first time in set 5. They’ve won TNW 8 times in 14 sets so far and depending on the PANLV/TKO battle this set goes, they could be looking at 9 in 15 sets. They’re also very prolific at getting the #1 overall country, pulling that off 7 times in the 14 sets (LaE is the only one close here, with 5 #1’s, PAN has the other 2). Consistently near the top for ANW, but their only two ANW crowns have come in sets where their prime contenders have been at war (one set was the crazy war set, set 7, where TKO owned every aspect of netgaining due to the fact that there was literally no other major clan that was: 1) netgaining, and 2) actually known as a netgaining clan. Both throughout time and currently, TKO is the clan to beat for the TNW crown.

PANLV – We’ve sort of been relegated to the “little brother” of TKO when it comes to our competitions. PANLV is one of only three clans in the history of FFA to win the TNW, along with TKO and LaE, winning it three times, most recently last set. We’ve finished runner-up five other times and third once when NBK netted with over 300 countries. PANLV also is only one of three clans to have #1 finishes on the server, with 2 of those. We’ve also been sort of the big dog in ANW for a good chunk of time and that is the one place where we can tout a superior record to TKO. Since the xGD/NBK war, when TKO became the biggest netting clan, to the recent run of success by ESD, PANLV was the ANW clan to beat. In the 8th set, we finished 3rd behind two single man tags, then 2nd behind Mercs, followed by two 1st place finishes. Since then, PANLV is still a force in the ANW battle, but haven’t been able to get past ESD.

NBK – The top warring clan, hands down. They’re so far out ahead of everyone else that with the exception of the couple of sets where they skirmished with SemperFi, they’ve had to intentionally take on 2:1 fights for quite some time simply to have a challenge. Since war stats aren’t necessarily something that’s easy to find without doing real work, I’m going to simply leave it at that.


Second tier

ESD – Arguably a clan that could compete for top-tier, but at ~110-130 countries recently, they’re still just a bit small to be able to compete in a war or a netting competition for TNW with any of the top tier clans. Dragon’s got a good thing going there and if they continue to grow by grabbing 1-2 extra guys each set while keeping high standards for netgaining, they’re not far from being a true contender for the TNW crown. They have recently owned the ANW category, winning it the last 3 sets (and based on their average land, I think they’ve got a great chance at getting it again this set). Perhaps the quietest and most left alone netgaining clan as well, so as long as they can keep staying below the radar, there’s no reason to think these performances aren’t repeatable in future sets as well.

IMP – For this particular set, I’m going to put them ahead of CC simply because they beat down CC in a war this set. IMP has generally played the part of villain in FFA politics and seemingly always has a few people who are embroiled in a feud of some type with them, whether it was FoCuS near the beginning of FFA, PANLV for a short spell, or perhaps CC now. They’re a war clan and when they have the advantage, they seem to put up very impressive activity. They’ve also had some wars (like NBK v. IMP/FoCuS), where it seems like the full effort isn’t there.

CC – Overall, I’d probably rate them as the 2nd best warclan on the server, and when heavy hitters like bsnake and fordy are present and active, they are perhaps on par with NBK when it comes to rate statistics (can’t keep up with NBK on total hits due to numbers of course). This set they’re getting beat up pretty bad by IMP, but they were trying to netgain, so they were probably ill-prepared for such a fight.

FoCuS – In the middle of being beat down by NBK right now, but FoCuS has plenty of positives about them. When they netgain, they’re very capable (last set about 80M Average), but you can tell that they’ve got some killers at heart or people who aren’t fully motivated to try to put up a great netgaining performance. At the same time, they’re a clan that often can put up a big country or two. They’ve got many great killers as well, and when they’re on equal footing and motivated, they can be among the hardest hitting clans in FFA. However, many of their recent war efforts have been more lackluster. This could be due to the fact that they’ve been outgunned and paired with clans that they don’t tend to have any real strong relations with though.

Mercs – This one was a tough one to place, as they’ve basically got two sets of data to look at, and this set isn’t nearly as impressive as the last. However, I’m giving them benefit of the doubt and putting them in the 2nd tier instead of the 3rd. In their previous set, they set the ANW record with 185M ANW. For comparison sake, the current big dogs of the ANW category, ESD, has their best at 170M ANW. Political reasons (mostly surrounding a few clans’ hatred of Rockman) caused them to break up, so that talent was redistributed to the other clans. Now that they’re back, they’re showing they’ve still got what it takes to compete for countries, but there’s a big portion of their clan that seems relatively inactive, dragging down average land and average networth numbers significantly. I expect them to claim a strong share of the top 100, but unless they detag all the inactives, I wouldn’t expect them to seriously compete with ESD or even PANLV for ANW.

Third Tier

Elysium – A very good netgaining clan that seems to be the target of some of the war clans these days. If they get this turned around, they’ll be back on the upswing, but for now, this is a clan that can’t netgain because of war, and they’re not putting up terribly impressive war numbers from what I’ve seen.

LaE – Would be higher if not for the fact that they’re falling apart and it’s already been announced they won’t be back next set. In their first incarnation, they were the powerhouse of FFA and won TNW the first three sets and the #1 country 5 times. Their recent history pretty much just consists of last set and ICe Man coming back every 2-3 sets and trying to gather his LaErs back together before losing interest and playing his Xbox 360 instead. Regardless, they had a very impressive set last set, finishing #2 in ANW behind ESD and ahead of PANLV and TKO. Suiciders and inactivity by most of the leadership this set has pretty much led to LaE falling apart and being relegated to being an afterthought to compete for any of the major “crowns” for this set.

KSM – an upcoming clan, but last set they seemed to be netting and had 40M ANW. This set looks like it might be a stronger set, but there’s no history to buoy up their ranking, so this is a “wait-and-see” ranking.

XI – Veteran group of killers, but generally they’ve been far too small of a group to really make much of a difference in the large scheme of things, as it often is for small warring clans (at least small netgaining clans can catch attention by winning ANW).

BooM/Bad4u – Don’t know as much about them, but they seem to be a hybrid sort of clan, killing a lot of suiciders this set, but also netgaining somewhat. The Walls of Stalingrad guy seems to be a strong netter, but most of the rest of the clan look like they’re either more interesting in killing than netting or they’re not terribly active right now.

Ares – At one point it seemed like they were going to be an interesting small war clan on the rise, then it seemed like they were going to fade out of the picture completely, but they’ve hung on at about 48 countries recently. Still not much of a real player in war and with only 32 countries and 14M ANW last set, they’re not setting the world on fire netgaining wise either. Perhaps they were involved in a lot of killing though.

So, where am I wrong? Make your cases for why I’m a blowhard who doesn’t know what I’m talking about. :)

Azz Kikr Game profile

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Jul 13th 2012, 15:17:30

you're pretty much spot on with mercs :P

smegma Game profile

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Jul 13th 2012, 15:26:54

I'd say that you are spot on.

KyleCleric Game profile

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1188

Jul 13th 2012, 15:42:42

Originally posted by Azz Kikr:
you're pretty much spot on with mercs :P


pretty much, just w/ XI moving ahead of you. :P
This is our fluffing city. And no one is going to dictate our freedom. Stay strong.

Azz Kikr Game profile

Wiki Mod
1520

Jul 13th 2012, 16:06:09

i can't control people's reactions to being suicided on repeatedly, nor am i going to try to force people to play on a server that they don't enjoy any more :P

PapaSmurf Game profile

Member
1221

Jul 13th 2012, 17:13:05

Well you said you didn't have war stats. This is probably not exactly correct, but it's the best I had with the information I could get. This is for all sets, except this one.

total attacks:

NBK 1,538,725
CC 750,032
IMP 744,909
Panlv 501,807
LaE 467,385

snawdog Game profile

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Jul 13th 2012, 17:15:23

IMP is ranked too high...
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Mr Emerald

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Jul 13th 2012, 20:17:52

I like these ranks, spot on with LaE as well :)
We are not the same, I am martian!
you are all retarded in the eyes of fluff
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Twain Game profile

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3320

Jul 13th 2012, 21:11:54

Smurf: Good start to stats. If I were really motivated, I'd figure out who fought who each of the last 3 sets or so (along with this set as well) and compile the standard warstats. I'd also try to figure out how many actual "war" attacks each clan did whether they were at war or not (so battling suiciders could be included).

Total Attacks certainly helps, and it certainly shows NBK's ability to hit hard and fast, but when you see LaE 5th on the list, with the fact that the only war I remember LaE having was against like 5 small clans (I think SancT was one of them along with UofT/tex and like 3 other tags of anywhere from 15-60 countries). Not really much of a war considering LaE still outnumbered the other side by 100 countries or more and obviously a bunch of small tags didn't really organize well.

Since I didn't want to do all that work, I relied on memory, which is why when it comes to the netting tags, I actually give more concrete reasons on why they're ranked where they are, and for the war clans, it's far more abstract.

Rico Game profile

Member
1129

Jul 13th 2012, 21:19:30

Originally posted by snawdog:
IMP is ranked too high...

I demand a recount!

ZIP Game profile

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3222

Jul 13th 2012, 21:24:39

you need a scoring system
fluff your 300 Spartans fool - i have 32 of the biggest fluffed mother fluffers made of titanium !!
A brigade from Blackstreetboyz (#91) has invaded your lands! Your defenses held against the invaders and forced them away! Your military lost:1 Troops

Asing Game profile

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137

Jul 13th 2012, 23:06:06

bonus
SoL
CC

synoder Game profile

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1664

Jul 13th 2012, 23:36:19

I dont remember NBK v imp/focus? Has my memory failed me again?

I agree with you that war clans are hard to rank cause they fluctuate so much between sets. For example, last set CC was huge(due the the semperfi merger) and would have smoked NBK in a 1v1 whereas this set they are getting beat by imp. I think you have to take a whole picture look at it otherwise ranks would be all over the place. Overall I think you did a good job!

Mr Emerald

Member
896

Jul 13th 2012, 23:59:18

How would you score though?

Each attack = 1 point
Each kill = 2 points
Each top 10 = 2 points
Each top 100 = 1 point
Each Crown = 5 points

etc etc ??
We are not the same, I am martian!
you are all retarded in the eyes of fluff
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ZIP Game profile

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3222

Jul 14th 2012, 0:02:18

no, you need to add a value to civ killed, buildings destroyed. ar grabbed as well not just pure hits.
fluff your 300 Spartans fool - i have 32 of the biggest fluffed mother fluffers made of titanium !!
A brigade from Blackstreetboyz (#91) has invaded your lands! Your defenses held against the invaders and forced them away! Your military lost:1 Troops

ZIP Game profile

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Jul 14th 2012, 0:02:42

Nw destroyed
fluff your 300 Spartans fool - i have 32 of the biggest fluffed mother fluffers made of titanium !!
A brigade from Blackstreetboyz (#91) has invaded your lands! Your defenses held against the invaders and forced them away! Your military lost:1 Troops

ZIP Game profile

Member
3222

Jul 14th 2012, 0:03:44

defends needs to be worth something too
fluff your 300 Spartans fool - i have 32 of the biggest fluffed mother fluffers made of titanium !!
A brigade from Blackstreetboyz (#91) has invaded your lands! Your defenses held against the invaders and forced them away! Your military lost:1 Troops

Rico Game profile

Member
1129

Jul 14th 2012, 0:06:35

Originally posted by synoder:
I dont remember NBK v imp/focus? Has my memory failed me again?

I think he means CC vs IMP/Focus.

Mr Emerald

Member
896

Jul 14th 2012, 0:06:47

well honestly, it would be very easy to do this like the old Ben Raines Alliance Rankings on ES.



We are not the same, I am martian!
you are all retarded in the eyes of fluff
o o
( ._.) -----)-->
(_(' )(' )

RUN IT IS A KILLER TEDDY BEAR!!!

Tin Man

Member
1314

Jul 14th 2012, 0:07:26

nice Job Twain.. you and your "effort", pushah.

Twain Game profile

Member
3320

Jul 14th 2012, 0:44:34

Originally posted by Rico:
Originally posted by synoder:
I dont remember NBK v imp/focus? Has my memory failed me again?

I think he means CC vs IMP/Focus.


Ahhh, oops. I know it's the typical NBK move to declare on 2 clans, so I assumed it was them. Again, one of those things where since the war stuff isn't as well documented, it's harder to double-check myself. Thanks for the correction.

Rico Game profile

Member
1129

Jul 14th 2012, 1:29:31

War history in 2012. Starting (Dec '11 - Jan '12) set.

IMP
IMP vs CC: Win
CC vs NBK/IMP: Win
IMP vs Ely: Win
Ely vs IMP: Loss

NBK
NBK vs Focus/Ely: Win
CC vs NBK/IMP: Win
Netted
NBK/XI vs SemperFi/Focus/CC/Ante: Loss

CC
IMP vs CC: Loss
CC vs NBK/IMP: Loss
Netted
NBK/XI vs SemperFi/Focus/CC/Ante: Win

XI
XI vs LAB: Win
XI vs Ely: Win
Netted?
NBK/XI vs SemperFi/Focus/CC/Ante: Loss

Focus
NBK vs Focus/Ely: Loss
Netted
Netted
NBK/XI vs SemperFi/Focus/CC/Ante: Win

Ely
NBK vs Focus/Ely: Loss
XI vs Ely: Loss
IMP vs Ely: Loss
Ely vs IMP: Win

PapaSmurf Game profile

Member
1221

Jul 14th 2012, 4:32:20

Actually I have compiled a bunch of stats. Netting and War. Which I'll put up on wiki after this sets numbers are accounted for. It'll have individual top 25s, and alliance top 25. I can also add ben raines ranking too. It would be pretty easy.

SaintSinner Game profile

Member
232

Jul 14th 2012, 14:19:32

lol. TNW is purely a number of members thing. ANW much better to show skill. hell 20-30 crappy players could still get he tnw crown.

Twain Game profile

Member
3320

Jul 14th 2012, 14:32:48

SaintSinner: There's some truth to that, but ultimately, I feel that small tags can benefit in ANW just like large clans can benefit in the TNW category. For a clan with let's say 15 active members, if 2 of them lose interest and 1 runs dedicated killers, you're basically netting with 12 and you'll have 3 with low ANW's that drag down the clan. When you're a 1-man tag, if like in your instance, you're able to stay below the radar and basically be left alone, there's no need to run dedicated killers (maybe a dedicated retaller still, of course), and your motivation level is entirely up to you.

For TNW, members are important, but looking back, the clan that won the TNW crown wasn't the biggest eight out of the fourteen times. Many of those times you might say "Well, it's probably a war clan that the smaller netting clan had to beat," but that's only true 5 of those 8 times. In the 5th and 6th sets, it happened. In the 8th set, NBK netted with ~140 more countries than TKO and TKO still won TNW. This set, TKO has about 30 more countries than PAN and it's a pretty dead even battle for TNW so far (of course, destocking will truly help us find out if that will continue to be true).

Considering the top netting clans (TKO, PANLV, ESD) tend to do very well in both ANW and TNW, I don't think there are any rankings that are skewed because of putting the importance on TNW. Besides, TNW is the main crown for this game. No netting clan that had a chance to win TNW ever thought "Gee, we could win the ANW if we detagged a bunch of countries, but we'd finish 2nd in TNW. Oh hell, ANW's the real crown anyway!"

ANW is impressive, but to go back to when I was 12 and a fan of then WWF, it's like being the Intercontinental Champion. It's a belt, but it's not the MAIN belt.

Dragon Game profile

Member
3712

Jul 14th 2012, 16:01:47

I agree with Twain. Back in the day, ESD won TNW one reset with, like 100 or so countries.

That included the then Bot-i-fied 4000+ country (most were untagged) PANLV tag as well as other bot running tags. Circumstances had all the major clans (in terms of membership) at or finishing up wars at the end of the reset. Everything just lined up right for a small ass clan to win TNW.

Yes, top to bottom I had some all-star players that round who were off the hook, but under normal circumstances, we would have been way to few in numbers.

Where numbers become relevant is when you're comparing apples to apples and clans that perform at or near the same competitive level.

Nothing against PAN or TKO, but ESD's players are in the same class as the players in those two tags. Moreso now that ESD land trades and is starting to get proficient at it. I this case, I believe size DOES matter.

I'm just saying that if you give ESD say, 30 more countries, we are in a size range that can maybe top the Big Dogs. Unless or until that happens, or PAN and TKO somehow mysteriously forget how to netgain at the elite level, their numbers make it nearly impossible to top them.

That said, there are so many variables to consider every set. Let's say that TKO and PANLV either war each other or both get dec'd on. Size probably won't help them win TNW if the war goes on long enough and if their biggest countries have been killed.

An under-the-radar ESD wins TNW most likely, but what's that really worth? Not much.

ANW isn't EASY to win by any means, but trying to measure overall worth using it alone just won't do. There are differences in the dynamics of clan size to consider among other things.

Edited By: Dragon on Jul 14th 2012, 16:08:14
See Original Post

MUFASA JACKSON Game profile

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505

Jul 14th 2012, 17:02:53

Measure this :
OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH !


10 Inches of fluff over here !
-----MUFASA


"I see with strobelight vision and I'm alwaze in a panic! My only skill is murder and I'm stuck on Automatic!"

Twain Game profile

Member
3320

Jul 14th 2012, 17:25:05

I fully agree. I think if you took ESD, TKO and PANLV in sets where all the netters were highly motivated to do their best and you leveled out the numbers, it'd be one heck of a good netting battle.

ESD benefits in ANW due to the fact that they're smaller--they've only got players playing who are interested in netting and they have little need for killers since ESD has stayed off the map for the suiciders.

PANLV and TKO benefit in the TNW category because we've got the numbers advantage. While even 2-3 people not fully netgaining can hurt a clan in ANW, when you've got 30-50 countries sitting between 20-40M at the end (which for countries that are simply on suicider watch is a reasonable and yet easy goal) still makes a big difference.

Neither ANW nor TNW is necessarily easy to win but again, with the current crop of netting clans, with ESD, PAN and TKO all being in the top 5 for both ANW and TNW the last 3 sets. That's also true for the other clans that have risen up and had good netting sets the last few sets. I expect Mercs to be in the top 5 in TNW and probably still top 8 or so in ANW (maybe better). LaE last set was 3rd in TNW and 2nd in ANW, FoCuS was 5th in both last set. Back in round 11, Elysium was 3rd and 4th and they were 3rd in each in round 10.

So ultimately, there hasn't been any clan that has won or even competed for TNW that wasn't also a strong ANW clan. Likewise, there hasn't been a 1-man tag that has won ANW since round 8, when Rockman won it, so I wouldn't devalue either the ANW crowns or TNW crowns recently. They've been earned.

SublimeNightmare Game profile

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926

Jul 14th 2012, 17:34:11

Interesting read Twain, thx for the list.
IT'S KILLING TIME

mdevol Game profile

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3228

Jul 14th 2012, 17:36:29

whoever finishes in the top 10, go ahead and thank IMP for it at end of set. CC was going to own it. at least 5 of the spots.
Surely what a man does when he is caught off his guard is the best evidence as to what sort of man he is. - C.S. Lewis

ZIP Game profile

Member
3222

Jul 14th 2012, 17:42:55

Back in round 11, Elysium was 3rd and 4th and they were 3rd in each in round 10.


the only 2 full net sets we have had on this server
fluff your 300 Spartans fool - i have 32 of the biggest fluffed mother fluffers made of titanium !!
A brigade from Blackstreetboyz (#91) has invaded your lands! Your defenses held against the invaders and forced them away! Your military lost:1 Troops

Jade Penn Game profile

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596

Jul 14th 2012, 17:57:36

Originally posted by Twain:

So ultimately, there hasn't been any clan that has won or even competed for TNW that wasn't also a strong ANW clan. Likewise, there hasn't been a 1-man tag that has won ANW since round 8, when Rockman won it, so I wouldn't devalue either the ANW crowns or TNW crowns recently. They've been earned.


I would not count rockman that round as a solo tag winning ANW as he retaged in the last few hours of the set.

Crippler ICD Game profile

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3739

Jul 14th 2012, 18:00:58

Only 2 you'll ever have until war effort increases
Crippler
FoCuS
<--MSN
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CripplerTD

[14:26] <enshula> i cant believe im going to say this
[14:26] <enshula> crippler is giving us correct netting advice

Dragon Game profile

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3712

Jul 14th 2012, 18:26:22

Originally posted by Jade Penn:
Originally posted by Twain:

So ultimately, there hasn't been any clan that has won or even competed for TNW that wasn't also a strong ANW clan. Likewise, there hasn't been a 1-man tag that has won ANW since round 8, when Rockman won it, so I wouldn't devalue either the ANW crowns or TNW crowns recently. They've been earned.


I would not count rockman that round as a solo tag winning ANW as he retaged in the last few hours of the set.


Just about any of us could detag at the very end of a set and win ANW. That just makes a player a selfish asshole. Not a winning netter.

If the guy ran solo the whole set, I might feel differently.

Dragon Game profile

Member
3712

Jul 14th 2012, 18:28:44

Originally posted by mdevol:
whoever finishes in the top 10, go ahead and thank IMP for it at end of set. CC was going to own it. at least 5 of the spots.


I won't thank IMP for anything. Unless CC was going to push any country under $800 Million NW out of the top 10, they didn't do ME any favors.

But good luck next set. I look forward to the challenge of some clan trying to shut me out of the top 10. :)

gambit Game profile

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1285

Jul 14th 2012, 18:33:44

nbk is ranked too low!
Natural Born Killer

Mr Emerald

Member
896

Jul 14th 2012, 18:47:43

with all the self farming going on in LaE before the suicider, I think we were putting up at least 5-6 1b+ nw countries all good for top10 heh
We are not the same, I am martian!
you are all retarded in the eyes of fluff
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RUN IT IS A KILLER TEDDY BEAR!!!

Dragon Game profile

Member
3712

Jul 14th 2012, 18:55:51

I really don't know what "top 10" means anymore.

I mean, don't get me wrong. I had a top 10 finish last set and that was the first one ever since 1999. I'm proud of that.

However, the naked truth now is that a Top 10 Country simply relies on how many acres you can get off yourself that are largely undefended and do it as fast as possible so you can cash out or stockpile.

I would gladly trade my first ever Top Ten finish and any future Top Ten Finishes for a "legit" one from back in the day.

All I did last set is prove that I can do as good as the other top players did that round. Ad that's cool, but really nothing to brag about.



Primeval Game profile

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3066

Jul 14th 2012, 18:58:38

Originally posted by mdevol:
whoever finishes in the top 10, go ahead and thank IMP for it at end of set. CC was going to own it. at least 5 of the spots.


Was this dry humor?

Twain Game profile

Member
3320

Jul 14th 2012, 19:09:08

Let's be serious. There are probably at least 3-4 clans that believe they had/have a good chance at monopolizing the top 10.

The only clan recently that has shown they're actually capable of this is TKO. Until you do it, it doesn't count for much. Besides, you don't know how market conditions, suiciders, or the plans of other alliances will affect the t10 until we're near the very end.

Regardless, I'm sure CC would have put up their share of t100s, so thanks IMP for making t100 just a little easier to get than it would have been! Same to NBK, since FoCuS always puts up a few t100s too! (Sorry Crippy :P)

Twain Game profile

Member
3320

Jul 14th 2012, 19:12:22

Originally posted by Jade Penn:
Originally posted by Twain:

So ultimately, there hasn't been any clan that has won or even competed for TNW that wasn't also a strong ANW clan. Likewise, there hasn't been a 1-man tag that has won ANW since round 8, when Rockman won it, so I wouldn't devalue either the ANW crowns or TNW crowns recently. They've been earned.


I would not count rockman that round as a solo tag winning ANW as he retaged in the last few hours of the set.


Fair enough. I didn't necessarily remember that. xXx tag would've won ANW then, which was another 1-man tag. If they were another detagger, then it goes back to hrock as a 1-man tag that won ANW, and hrock definitely earned it.

KeTcHuP Game profile

Member
1785

Jul 14th 2012, 20:11:02

I feel TKO and Pan ave switched places. LaE was dominante for first 4ish sets. When TKO came into full swing around set 3-6 was our formative sets i think. At that point Pan was high 200 low 300s countries. We would beat then ANW, they would beat us TNW. Pan was unlucky and made some bad political decisions if they wanted to remain as they were. Basicy NBK hit them a few times, and t xGD was political suicide if they were looking to net.

Over the corse of 5 sets i beleive they warrd 3-4 of them. Tis caused a decline in membership to ~120 for a few sets. Since thn they have been starting to grow back up. It could be blessing in disguise, it definatly brought their core membership together and weeded out some weeker members unwilling to work for the clan.

Durring this time TKO politically was at its peak. We manageed to avoid all wars around this time period with good FA, mature members, and patience. We would bite the bullet on a stupid grab or two from NBK or IMP that was an obvious attempt to piss us off, or fluster us. We kept all ranting to our personal site, besides a fewsmall FFAT outburst, most was contained. Leaders such as myself ruined countries to run perfect retallers and get the land back to our members. Later on we had the IMP situation for one set, which was a big victory for us war wise, and we were able to give NBK a war as well after, which i thinked helped us as well. We had a chance to give NBK something it loved, a good clean almost fair war (we had FS, they had members, activity, NW, stock, missiles, etc.) I think that gained us a bit of respect in the NBK camp, they also didnt have to run around and get wars against clans unwilling to fight.

Since then we have peaked and slightly regressed. Both in members and politics. We have received far more suiciders then any other clan sine then. No we aren't the only one to get them, but we have consistently killed 100,200 or even 300 suiciders a set, and lost billions upon billions of networth. This is definatly a political regression. Can suiciders be prevented? No... but if we were able to sidesep more of them politically it would be to our benefeit. How exactly to do that is an interesting, and possibly impossible, cocept to debate.

I think it can be broken down into three main eras of FFA from a netting perspective.

Era 1- Lae dominance. Set 1 through 4 or 5ish.
era 2- Open field with pan pushing for the top, more of a free for al though. Set 4 or 5 to 8 or 9ish.
Era 3- TKOs emergence atop the netting podium.

TKO has become complacent though. Our lack of wars has let our membership grow slightly less cohecive etc. We are lazier and that has allowed ESD and Pan to easily pass us in TNW. I do beleive we would be closer to ESD and Pan in av net if we lost less ofluffries to suiciders, and were able to run less killer countries. But we also need higher activity and better job watching out plaers countries and giving advice.

War wise the server obviously is completey different. For that you would need to discuss the history of IMP,NBK, Focus etc.
Ketchup the Thoughtful Suicidier

KeTcHuP Game profile

Member
1785

Jul 14th 2012, 20:16:32

my rankings: Top tier. Will post rest later customer comming in haha

1. NBK. I dont care if TKO and Pan are better entters thats irrelevant. Who can control politics and influence it more is way more important. Until TKO and pan can feel safe dictating poltiics to NBK without fear, NBK will be ontop. 1 v. 1 TKO vs NBK wouldnt be close. NBK would win with activity and war builds. The gap is getting closer though.
2. TKO. TNW wins most of the time. But is definatly stating to regress. Pan is getting way closer. Recruiting has been stagnet, and ANW is slightly faltering. Killing has become more effeciently however ands till poltically able to avoid wars which is a plus.
3. Pan. Creeping closer to TKO. They had a valley after the constant set of wars which has left them witha stronger core, and slowly growing back to near TKO size.
Ketchup the Thoughtful Suicidier

PapaSmurf Game profile

Member
1221

Jul 14th 2012, 23:07:41

Some interesting stuff there Ketchup. Here are some stats you may find interesting. Now mind you this is stats at the end of the set, but this is untagged last 5 set (not this set)

Set - # of Untagged

10 - 1485
11 - 1255
12 - 1090
13 - 1401
14 - 1962

And last set TKO had 445 kills
Panlv had 49

KeTcHuP Game profile

Member
1785

Jul 15th 2012, 0:32:46

400 kills*200 turns per kill (prob more)= 80,000 more turns killing then pan. Had those 80,000 turns been used for netting would TKO have had 2b more NW for TNW crown? Ignoring the fact we lost at least 6b NW in countries.... i know pan lost some too but i think we lost more.

ALso my post was done at work with the window minimized so bnoss didnt see me doing it. fluff alot of typos.

For example: ESD and pan to easily pass us in ANW.. not in TNW.
Ketchup the Thoughtful Suicidier

Tin Man

Member
1314

Jul 15th 2012, 1:43:55

ESD will win TNW soon though, with or without the members.. christ we're all a bunch of netting n00bs besides Viper(6th in TNW) and JP(top 10 in overall NW and Top 100s) with 2 new players this set.

We don't even come CLOSE to the experience in netting TKO, Pan, LaE CC have.

It is our interest in the game that keeps us held together, that's the key!

Oh and a crazy Floridian with a really long names also helps =D

Edited By: Tin Man on Jul 15th 2012, 1:49:16
See Original Post

Warster Game profile

Game Moderator
Primary, Express, Tourney, & FFA
4172

Jul 15th 2012, 4:56:31

ok i did some rough numbers for the last 5 sets for TKO, PAN, ESD is regard to suiciders



reset 10 Kills

tko - 10
pan - 2
ESD - 0

Deaths
TKO - 2 net loss - 3mil
Pan - 0
ESD - 0



reset 11 Kills

tko - 87
pan - 20
ESD - 4


Deaths

TKO - 22 -net loss - 789k land 125 mil networth (likely 2.3 bil worth of final net)
pan - 0
ESD - 1 -net loss - 4k land .3 mil networth

Reset 12 Kills

tko - 162
pan - 0
esd - 2

Deaths

TKO - 17 -net loss - 2.1 mil land 224 mil networth ( likely 6.3 bil worth of final net )
pan - 0
ESD - 0

reset 13 Kills

TKO - 76
Pan - 119
ESD - 6

Deaths

TKO - 7 - net loss - 1.24 mil land 178 mil networth (likely 3.6 bil worth of final net)
PAN - 12 - net loss - 165k land 30 mil networth ( likely 400- 600 mil worth of final net)
ESD - 4 - unknown

reset 14 Kills

Tko - 446
Pan - 49
ESD - 7

Deaths

TKO - 60 - net loss - 1.2- 1.5 mil land 400- 500 mil networth ( 5 bil net worth of final net )
PAN - 24 - net loss - 250k - 350k land 100 - 250 mil networth (700 mil- 1 bil worth of final net )
ESD - 3 - net loss - 100k land 20 mil networth ( about 350 mil )



all final net is based on 60k land = 180 mil ( its on the low side )

Totals -

TKO kills - 781
aver per reset - 156
TKO Deaths - 108
aver per reset - 21

Pan Kills- 190
aver per reset - 38
Pan Deaths - 36
aver per reset - 7

ESD kills - 19
aver per reset - 5
ESD Deaths - 8
aver per reset - 2
FFA- TKO Leader
Alliance- Monsters

MSN
ICQ 28629332

SaintSinner Game profile

Member
232

Jul 15th 2012, 5:08:50

all relative to clan size through whole set too (before drops, detags and kills that never retag)?

Rockman Game profile

Member
3388

Jul 15th 2012, 5:12:07

Originally posted by Dragon:
Originally posted by Jade Penn:
Originally posted by Twain:

So ultimately, there hasn't been any clan that has won or even competed for TNW that wasn't also a strong ANW clan. Likewise, there hasn't been a 1-man tag that has won ANW since round 8, when Rockman won it, so I wouldn't devalue either the ANW crowns or TNW crowns recently. They've been earned.


I would not count rockman that round as a solo tag winning ANW as he retaged in the last few hours of the set.


Just about any of us could detag at the very end of a set and win ANW. That just makes a player a selfish asshole. Not a winning netter.

If the guy ran solo the whole set, I might feel differently.



I was in a 1 man tag for a couple weeks, then a friend tagged up to help me fight a war against Stones. He went inactive after the war was over, and I detagged to Rockman with a few days left in the set.

I was never in a tag with more than 2 people in it that set, and I fought and won a war against a tag with about 3x as many countries.

How many of you could play solo, get picked on by someone with 6x as many countries as you, get one friend to help you beat them in a war, and then still make 100m networth while landtrading for the first time ever?

How does that make me a selfish asshole? All my countries jumped as dictators, and I fought a war against a much larger (albeit completely disorganized) alliance. I wasn't netting that set. That just means the server was really incompetent because 100m anw was enough to win ANW that set. And I told everyone that FFA's standards for netting were extremely pathetic, and Mercs backed up that claim the next set.