I feel it's important to make a separate, neutral thread to remind all of you that these actions were orchestrated by a very select few individuals. Sure, as had been said before, the actions of these individuals likely ended up benefiting the whole alliance, but we can't fault upwards of 100 individual members for blindly benefiting from something that they likely had nor could have had any knowledge of. I'm really hoping that this doesn't turn into an excuse for the rest of the server to turn on LaF and try to drive them from the game. It would benefit nobody to have dozens of individuals driven from an already dwindling player pool because of the actions of less than a handful of people. If anything, I'm looking at this as a chance to see who LaF are in their true light.

I have to agree and disagree. But refuse to be trolled. <3

good post.
That said, I STILL suspect that more than just the 2 were aware of this.

No, driving alliances from the game doesn't benefit anyone.

Wonder if LaF continues to try to do it after this?

I don't think LaF players will leave, but if they have an ounce of self respect or decency, AN OUNCE, they should go somewhere else.

Trust is a very fragile thing.

Regarding those who broke the communities trust (both Laf members and other alliances), I was told this by a few individuals.

"They might just be individuals but they still represent your alliance and in the end what they do and say represent your alliance fully."

Its sad watching the vultures. If others had a clue theyd realize that a family doesnt disband over 1 or 2 mistakes. Im not a member of the Laf family, I am a tagged laf member though,where ill remain. Ill also continue walling sol and whoever else cares to try to pick a fight with a 90+ legit player alliance.

Btw ty for this thread hawkeye, so easily the honest can be overlooked by a hint of wrong

Speaking on behalf of EVO, this only proves that a limited amount of LAF is responsible for betraying their own alliance's trust, the trust admins of the game have in all alliance leadership, and the game itself.

We have read the findings, with mixed emotions. On the one hand, it would be easy to hate LAF for the blatant disregard of both honesty and fairplay. However, that lays the blame on ALL of LAF and that would be unfair of the community. The large majority of LAF members are honest players, who play for the enjoyment and the comradeship that comes with Alliance play... as most all of us do.

We choose to believe that LAF membership have been lied to and mislead by a select few, for quite awhile, whom they trusted and believed in. The blame lies only w/ those select few. There will be NO fingerpointing or trolling of the LAF alliance approved by EVO. We will leave the guilt, solely with the people identified, and move on.

We applaud the admins for catching this and hope this will prevent any such future occurrences and deter any individual(s) from this type activity, in the future.


Yank
EVOlution President

same here...

Yank should speak more often. This is the first time in nearly a year that I have seen a representative of Evo post something that didn't make me want to run bots on them.

Honestly though Hanlong, you fluffing idiot.
You ruined your reputation, tarnished LaF to the point that I never again could trust what they say, and basically showed how futile it is to continue development or even keep this game running.

What for? Did LaF really need that much help that you would risk so much for so little?

Why do this? I hope you will give a statement as I think many trusted you and if not for us than for the members of LaF.

Shameful.

<3 hawkeye and yank.

Thanks Yank and Hawkeye.

This is the only line in what you said that drives me crazy. This isn't 1 or 2 mistakes; this is a lot more serious than that. I would hope that some extremely severe cheating would make some people look at whether or not they wanted to continue in that alliance. Some of this that play this game do have a sense of honor and decency, and these kinds of actions are a direct offense on that sense.

LaF indoctrination is strong in that one.

If I had known I'd have reported it myself. If I suspected that the current leaders were involved I'd likely leave and join PDM or somesuch. This was Hanlong and TC. This was not Laf. They represented Laf but they no longer do and we are better for it.

we all should break Laf Pact and sign neutral pact with them only.

Whether or not the whole leadership of Laf was involved, the whole heads team from last reset should resign. It's not about whether they knew about it or not, but the fact it happened under their watch means that they need to take responsibility. It happens actly the same way in the real world. When somebody screws up, the bosses take responsibility whether or not it was their fault.

All clan should sign a new agreement with LaF,
no more pacts that is flavouring them1!

I agree. Laf could do with less flavouring.

See, you say that here locket, but then in other posts you are trying to minimize it all. I have massive respect for the Laf leaders that are currently posting and eating this as a fluffty thing that has been done. But the people that are trying to make it seem small, are the ones I kinda wonder about how much they knew. That kind of irrational defending screams guilt.

Lmao

I am pretty much sure hanlong was not alone in this one hawk.
I don`t think Laf`s other heads were that silly in order not to ask appropriate questions about the suprising-incoming "cheating" info.

Of course the members that didn`t have a clue about this are clean but overall LAF image is K.O. due to high leadership failure ( a.k.a cheating ).

How does that mean LAF heads were complicit? How did we allow something to go down that we didn't know about?

to be very frank, Hanlong was a bit of a control freak. As he started bearing more and more of the work load, I know I stopped doing a lot, and I can only assume other LAF head types did the same. I often showed up for war chats early, and hanlong would tell me everything was already ready to go/he would take care of it/etc. In a game like this, why would any busy adult fight over who does the work? We work for our alliances because we love our members, if someone else is doing the work, and it seems to be going well, why argue? The system hanlong had developed allowed him to keep everything pretty hush, and questions to be kept very infrequent, even from other heads.

I havn't tried to minimize anything. I think the trolls are being opportunistic and in at least one case hypocrites. If you saw the conversation in our irc you would see that the opinion of Hanlong is pretty damn low right now. I don't condone any kind of cheating. Why do it for a simple online game?

+1 - was thinking about the same thing ...

I think we are ALL pretty upset right now but, I can't imagine how upset the legit Laf members are.

GL to the Laf members who truly had nothing to do with this.

Alliance Leaders can decide how they want to treat their relationship with LaF, they don't have to post it.

I know I was considered one of the few that was told a few things before it was posted publicly in LaF, had access to a few tools outside boxcar that in no way access game files. And that HLW generally told me what was happening.

I still didn't know this.

I'm sure every LaF member is at shock right now, but I'm telling you, I don't even know how I'm going to sleep tonight.

You just don't do this to people.


fluff you HLW.

Yeah you're right. If something is suspicious you don't need to question it as long as everything is 'going well'. To do so would be.. uhh.. not being a complicit, whimpering yes-man.

If only this WAS actually true in the real world...
I cite as an example, the company I formerly worked for.
We had an outlet at a university. the manager and assistant manager of that outlet ran the polace into the ground and ran it broke.
After the company closed it down, all the STAFF who worked there were let go. The two managers? given places at MY location, as high up managers. Ironically, someone else took over the site they vacated, and is making a fortune running the same type of business. Blatant proof of poor management being rewarded.

#1 Several alliances have more reasoning than LaF cheating to be angry at them.
#2 The fact hanlong/TC got caught cheating does NOT excuse their other leaders and members.
#3 This is not some free pass that LaF get, and can blame all their gangbangs and indiscretions on hanlong/tc.
#4 Clearly, nobody in LaF cared ENOUGH to find out where hanlong was getting his info from. If a member of my alliance was consistently getting info from several alliances, then I would become extremely suspicious and not just accept "i have my sources don't question me"

Funny, how when I post about LaF's in-game actions or in fact when I post my opinion about land-trading as an individual I get told: "You are a leader of your alliance and you represent them all"

Hanlong was Don of LaF, and thereby represents them all.

This is a much larger issue than a few LaF leaders cheating/hacking. This is about their entire alliance. Their alliance leaders all have the same attitude, while some may or may not have cheated it doesn't change their attitudes and what they've done to other alliances in the past 1-2 years.

Ouch!!!

KJ was EVO HoW. Self deleted to join MD in their war. Restarted to suicide on various alliances to suicide RD.

Clearly, it doesn't matter that EVO didn't have knowledge of KJ's actions, or condone it, but the FACT is that KJ represented EVO both in game and on AT, therefore, he represented them all.

EVO are suiciders that suicider other netgainers to benefit their finish. As proven with untag countries reset after reset that fed land to EVO tagged countries while only retal'ing non-EVO countries.

Troll be trolling.

It is clear for me that Forgotten is crying after hanlong and most probable he had a certain level of knowledge about his cheating.

You can`t simply be the devil advocate in this case.

Forgotten: you shoot yourself in the foot completely. ny your own admission, he self deleted from evo and joined MD.
as he had self deleted from evo and joined MD< he was no longer an evo rep at that point.
Hanlong was actively Don of LaF, the current and active head of your alliance.
There is no defending this fluff. seriously.
All you do is make yourself and LaF look worse.

So, you're saying that KJ who last played in MD, was then acting as an Evo representative? Where did you learn how to reason? Sadam Hussein Summer Camp?

I offered RD reps for what you say KJ did. Mr Silver said there was no need, as he didn't wish to ruin some Evo member's reset by making them pay for KJ's actions. Also note I still do not know whether that country was KJ's or not, BUT I STILL OFFERED REPS NONETHELESS.

So, stop comparing your dirty little cheats with alliances that try to make things right.

Mr.Silver
To: anoniem
Subject: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: yo
Date: Mar 25th, 16:37
Message Body:
Hey :)

I saw your post about Evo aiding RD if they want it... I just wanted to let you know we don't :) heh so no worries... I appreciate the jesture though.

I don't think KJs actions were anything attempted by Evo... Just him being a goof.

And I don't wanna see any innocent player (ie: you or anyone else) have to suffer for his actions.

But thank-you though :)

And there goes another thread. Perhaps people should take the lead from Yank.

How do you know what Yank is like? Have you been looking at screenshots of our website too?

Yank, has people like me, so that we can always be honest with him. It's a shame honesty and integrity is something you know nothing about.

You call me a troll, yet all I ever do is post the truth/facts. What exactly is it that you do?

Yes, KJ was still planning for EVO, rofl. Where and when exactly? And, how exactly would YOU KNOW what he was or wasn't doing?

I'm glad you edited your post which removed:
"KJ was still planning for EVO", as that clearly implicated yourself.

@Alin If you actually read, I never once defended HLW or TC. All I'm asking is that the trolls leave LaF be, and focus on HLW and TC. When the admins find out others involved, they will get the same treatment, exile.

Did I know that HLW was gaining information from other alliance? Of course, this is a war game after all and spy is a a part of it since the very beginning.

Did I know what methods HLW was using? Hell no. His answers to me privately over dinner, was that there is a disgruntled member from the alliance where he got the information from.

@Drow so leaving one alliance after a reset started, and retaking the same position after the reset ended, leaves the WHOLE ENTIRE MIDDLE unaccountable for the alliance? Oh please.

I'm not DEFENDING HLW, I'm DEFENDING LaF. Stop attacking LaF and point the blame the right way, on the person(s) responsible for it.



and @anoniem, since you like trolling, here's my reply.

Posting private messages on the forum is against the rules, but you won't be banned anyways, like usual.

You are starting to make a little sense now.

The event is fortunate ... even for you Laf guys. At least for those who play this game with honor.

can't be in 2 places at once dude.
and just like a suicider, you need to take responsibility as an alliance, for your members actions.
More so because he was your leader.
Nowhere has LaF said "we're sorry for their actions".
Nowhere has LaF said "we have booted them".
all that has been said is that Hanlong is no longer a don, and that his access has been gutted. in fact, right there says he STILL HAS ACCESS!
And nothing has been said of consequences for TC.

You rarely bother with facts. You whine about past sets. And if you bothered to read what Yank said you would know what I was talking about. But reading isnt something you worry about either unless it is something you can troll. Whatever he may think about things on the side he is at least the only polite Evo member there is.

also, didn't you jump on NA when llaar was caught posting on that cheating board?

Locket and Forgotten get off AT.

To the rest of you - LaF will take responsibility for what happened.

@Drow, fact llaar still leads said alliance that was caught cheating.


I believe we keep accounts for book-keeping purposes, maybe an IP reference point, or even just to keep old posts from having NO NAME for whoever posted it.

If I was with LaF I would quit.

Do it anyways in protest! ;)