You know, some people have their fluffing nerve. ESD has always tried to play as "legit" as possible and does little self-farming DESPITE the fact is keeps us from winning TNW. I had considered opening the gates to full self-farming to be able to compete but have had a change of heart.

Effective Immediately, ESD prohibits all self farming and internal land-trading other than farming down retallers AFTER legitimate retals.

Furthermore, when the next set begins, I will not be renewing pacts with any clan that self-farms. THEY can decided to "step up" by playing on the same field ESD does if they like. If not, that's okay. You just won't have a pact with ESD.

ESD WILL accept pacts from any non self-farming clan that would desire a pact with us.

Good luck to all in however they play. Everyone has to play within the rules and do so in the way that's fun for them. While ESD will be losing some former allies, that doesn't mean we're not still friends. I think we all know that we can retal one another pretty much at will and will usually choose not to grab each other anyways.

Step up, eh? I got your "step up" right here. Swingin'.

do you always hit yourself when your angry?

I think your lack of members is what stops you from winning TNW. And not even putting up 100m anw as a tag shows that you don't have this whole all-explore thing down either.

Only sometimes. I found that your nutsack takes several days to recover.

I didn't even mention you or FoCuS, Greg. Did I hit a nerve?

Here's a challenge for you, Dragon

You put up 125m networth as an all-explore tag only doing retals, and Mercs will do a set following those rules.

We put up 200m networth as an internal landtrading only, no landgrabbing other alliances tag, and ESD plays a set doing internal landtrading only, no landgrabbing other alliances tag.

Then we can see who can win on an even playing field.

There's no terms, Rockman. You and Mercs rely on self farming to put up big numbers. It's not MY or ESD's obligation to "prove" anything to you.

You come down and play legit. If you have the nerve. Personally, I don't think you do. Self-farmers aren't confident enough in their skills to PLAY "legit". Otherwise, they would.

I don't really give a rat's ass HOW you play, but you are in NO position to tell me if I'm doing "typical crappy FFA netting" if you self farm. DOn't sing it, bring it.

You make 125m anw as all-explore, and we'll play 'legit'.

Your all-explore countries don't even get a decent networth. If you show that FFA players actually do have some skill, we'll meet you on your terms.

DO I need to type more slowly? If you had any balls in your sack, you wouldn't sit there and make proposals that you pretty much know aren't going to cause you to have to hold up your end of your bargain.

If you won't come down and play "legit" just to prove you and your clan's superiority, then that says all that needs said. You don't WANT a fair fight. You actually might lose.

well if its that important why not just go through mercs and average out all the countries that didnt self farm landtrade or grab

wont be too hard to work out

anyway the best way to solve all the legit or not legit questions is to have more leaderboards metrics and transparency

end of set let everyone see who fa'd what when

and make leaderboards where you can subtract networth gained or lost from FA, as well as grabbing

and market manipulation, for instance any cash received above or below 10% of daily average sale price with a 3 day rolling average or 24 hour rolling average could be added or subtracted from a countries finish

that would get most of it although with enough goods sold in a low volume commodity the averages tend to move a lot so there would need to be some form of minimum volume where the average period increases

My argument isn't with you enshula. You're my friend, former clan mate, and we won a set of Team together. And we did it (obviously) without self farming.

Most of my commentary is towards the presumptuous asshole that plays under the Mercs tag.

You do know where enshula plays, right?

I certainly DO know where he plays. In fact, I even offered at one time to play with him under a MIA tag since he was decent enough to tag ESD for a set or two and play Team with me.

And he is obviously not the "presumptuous asshole". I can draw pictures it it'll help, Ozz. ;)

If you had skill as a netter, then we'd have to hold up our side of the bargain. Its well known that even a semi-skilled player can put up 100m networth as an all-explore. It would take something like 125m to show skill. Its not well known that a semi-skilled player can put up 150m networth with landtrading (but is probably equivalent), but I figure 200m is a good goal to decide skill.

We could, instead, use the anw that mercs all-explores put up as the amount you need to reach, and the anw that the ESD countries involved in self-farming put up as the goal we need to reach. Would you prefer we use those numbers to using 125 and 200? That would benefit you immensely, as our best netters have no all-explore countries, and our lazy nubs in training are the ones with all-explore countries.

If you demonstrate skill at all-explore, and we'll play all-explore for a set. But 75m anw doesn't quality as demonstrating skill. Its not that I lack balls, its that you lack skill.

ooohhh... the legit way discussion again... old..

In the old days ppl complained about FA-chains and buy-outs now ppl complain about landtrading/self-farming.

ESD stop comparing yourself with MERCS if you dont feel their way is legit. And if you dont like their way... well settle it like all policies has been set.. war.

//fluffie.. why does it come out as fluffie??! :) it's my name dammit!

fluffie. No..........I won't explain it to you. You wouldn't comprehend it anyways.

- I - wasn't the one making the comparisons. My buddy Twain made the comment about ESD "stepping up". And of course, fluffface had to toss in his $.02 after that. I don't WANT to be compared to PAN, Mercs, TKO, FoCuS or anyone ELSE that self farms because its apples and oranges.

All I did is invite them all down to my house to play a set "legit".

*sniffs bait*


*swims away*

I'd probably kill myself if I had to play 16 allx countries here..

So basically you want to loose every set?

It's another strategy Dragon. Makes the game more complex and uses more strategy.

Yes the old all explorer countries will be put to shame but change has come brother. Your just stuck in the past. Mehul doesn't run this anymore ;-)

I'm really not "stuck in the past". If nobody had inferred or stated that ESD needed to "step up" versus self farmers, none of these discussions would have even occurred.

I was perfectly content minding my own business and just doing what we do when people decided they could compare ESD to self farming clans. I didn't ask for this. I responded to it.

More than a few times, I've stated on this forum that in such a target-poor environment, I could understand how clans would self-farm. However, when people who ARE in self-farming clans tell ME I need to "step up", I think it's understandable how I might get a little pissy.

I honestly don't care what they do, but in return, I expect ESD to NOT be compared to them. That's like comparing a very good lawn tractor to a top fuel dragster. Apples and oranges. The fact that ESD lurks near the top of the pile set after set doing things the way we do them should say enough.

Mods/Developers have weighed in on this. There's nothing that makes landtrading illegal, so saying it's not legit is just crap.

Having said that, Dragon: Don't get dragged into policies just because Rockman's condescension is being aimed at you right now. Regardless, I don't see myself hitting ESD, and I'd like to think you guys won't hit us, pact or not, but you do what you have to. I just think it's poor form to get dragged into something just because one guy's obnoxious about it.

Im with Dragon! Not gonna try to justify it, but feels more right to me then self farming does :P

My condescension is towards all of FFA, not Dragon in particular. The top 100 cutoffs for past sets have been horribly low. Alliance players look down on FFA players, and I want to change that. If we're going to make 1:1 catch on in alliance, we have to show that its possible to netgain on FFA without land:land. Its no wonder that 1:1 doesn't catch on in alliance when they look at the tiny countries and low networths that everyone has in FFA.

Please stop self researching. It's not legit.

See it's fun to put labels on things.

Condescension is condescension and you're a fluff for wielding it. Nobody likes an arrogant asshole. People who lack faith in themselves will hire condescending assholes to work for them, and that's all good, I guess. That's too bad because I thought Azz was above that bullfluff. Oh well.

FFA is not 1a. It has a different dynamic.

I'm not trying to be liked. But as long as 75m networth is considered 'good' on FFA, alliance players will look down on the abilities of FFA players.

This whole set I've put up with you believing that you're as good as Mercs. I've let you believe that lie. Maybe it was rude of me to let you believe that fantasy for a while, but now that the end of the set is coming, you're realizing that Mercs is out of your league. I have nothing against you personally, which is why I wanted to let you figure out on your own that Mercs was really good. I wanted you to realize it on your own, and then to congratulate us, without bringing up how you thought you guys had a chance to compete with us in TNW. I wanted to let you save face.

I even had a sense of humor in the other thread, where you posted that you expected a 100m nw cutoff for top 100, even though 80m networth was already not in the top 100 with over 4 days left, and anyone could tell that Mercs was doing the late set destock, not the early destock. I did it with humor, not condescension.

And then later in that thread I said that I hoped PAN & ESD stepped it up and didn't do the crappy netting that FFA is used to.

"Please tell me PANLV and ESD stepped up their game and didn't do the same crappy netting FFA is used to. I told em to bring it..." were my exact words.

I thought of that as friendly banter, not condescension. I don't think my friends in PANLV think of it as condescending, especially since some of them have stepped it up this set. If it was taken as being condescending, I didn't mean it that way.

hmmmmm

getting 130/160M in alliance server as an all explore isn't just possible, it should be a given :)

So putting similar numbers in FFA should be possible as well, only problem is that people put such great numbers with tag protection and kind of low military, something that isn't advised in FFA.

Rockman is an ass, but if you had the whole set to net with, with no setbacks or attacks, then 120M should be easy :) However, ESD may not get huge numbers, but their military/Land Ratio has been superb the whole set!!!, you can't consider any of their countries as land fat, that hurts their end networth, but shows they don't aim to be easy prey of the FFA server.

Rockman I think you are going too far, first you say Warclans in FFA have no skill, then say Netters have no skill...

Lets put it like this:

How many times has Mercs gotten attacked this set? lets be honest, isn't much, FoCuS/PANLV/TKO have to do a lot of retals, with means they all need to have a couple of countries as pure retalers, countries that not only need to be jet heavy, those countries can't have a lot of tech either (to match networth), can you honestly say anyone in mercs gave up 2 of his countries and build them as tyranies with a fluffty economy and a ton of jets? I can say none of you did.

You may claim that you didn't need them as you guys were on top of the rest the whole set, but we both know that isn't the truth, there was a point in with mercs could had gotten hit pretty badly, but both NBK and CC were preparing for war and everyone else was pretty much pacted, so it was a gamble that paid a LOT in the end.

You got Alliance treatment in the FFA server, yet your are pretty much making sure that won't happen again next set, you are picking on everyone calling them unskilled, and even if that is the truth, a lot of people would say that playing without tanks is noobish, and I am quite sure you had almost none when I hit you :P

I was told things in FFA aren't that simple and that even when you piss off a single person that could mean several countries of yours going puff in a few seconds.

You seem to think that this game skills are all about math, but that isn't 100% true, math helps you build the absolute best strategy, yet keeping a low profile is what makes sure others won't fluff up your own numbers.


and sorry for my nonsense, and I hope people can understand what I wanted to say.

Chaoswind fluffs off

Azz Kikr ran our retallers. They didn't have crappy economies, but they did go jet heavy and do nearly all of our retals.

I got hit by NBK just one time this set, and it was by a country that was half my networth. I could have gone with a larger military than I did, but I chose my military size as the balance of risk/reward. Last set I was a 2 man tag while NBK was netting, so I ran more defense. If I need to keep 20m turrets while landtrading later in the set, I can do that.

Chaoswind -- I think the top end of all-x countries on the Alliance server is about ~140m NW. Absolute MAX. I haven't seen an all-x over 140m yet.

Look dude. You can shove your arrogance straight up your ass, okay? You and I are done unless you feel the need to continue to criticize and demean me or my clan.

I think we've said all there is to say to one another, and at the end of it all, you don't have the balls to run 16 All-X countries to prove you're as good as you think you are.

Half?

We were EVEN... actually I was a little bigger and that was my smallest Tyrany/techer at the time :/

Seems like you like to erase/change the parts you don't like


---------

2011-06-20 23:41:01 $7,418,493 21,616 acres T NBK
2011-06-20 23:36:01 $7,112,248 14,398 acres T

2011-06-20 23:41:01 Riemann Zeta Function $6,519,273 25,803 acres H Mercs
2011-06-20 22:51:02 Riemann Zeta Function $7,033,547 30,677 acres H

-------------

CX LaE, sorry is just that I have been FAing people in alliance server and I think I will hit +130M networth (will probably be lower as I have plans to FA a couple more people), and I didn't really did anything grand with my country :/

What about the 32 all-explore countries in Mercs?

this is the only response you'll get from me on ffat directly regarding all this fluff dragon. if having a loudmouth in your clan means a person is not "above all that bullfluff" then every single damn ffa clan, including yours, is not above that bullfluff. everybody has or has had their share of *some* member that has managed to piss off *somebody* outside their clan.
i'll turn icq and aim on and i'm in our irc chat if you want to have a serious conversation with me, but i'm through being serious about this on ffat. as far as i'm concerned, i'm going to go back to making popcorn/popcom jokes and eating donuts.

Ah, my bad, I forgot about that hit. I was thinking of the hit when I was 4 mil networth and the attacker was 2m networth.

You are correct. And as you admitted to me, you were the only one with high networth countries in NBK.

I was wrong. Call me an idiot for that if you want :)

2011-06-15 22:26:01 AV $1,942,549 10,908 acres T NBK
2011-06-15 22:26:01 First Order Logic $3,554,256 18,570 acres H Mercs

2011-06-15 22:21:13 PS AV (#364) NBK First Order Logic (#853) Mercs 1272A (1870A)

That's the one I was thinking of. I forgot about your hit.

wtf

Everyone forgets about me :(

well that is better as I like to keep a low profile :)

Chaoswind - when you invade my lands and ravage me, you need to be more memorable.

It's all good, Azz. For days past and loyalties like Enshula gave to me, I have no problem with Mercs. Other than Rockman. It's your choice to allow such a jerkoff to run with you guys and I don't hold that against you.

That said, if you're gonna continue to self farm, I gotta drop our pact. I would also suggest that you tell your Village Idiot to keep his mouth shut unless he wants his ass handed to him. I've sacrificed entire resets for less, Azz.

GL to Mercs in this and every upcoming set.

LOL...I bet Mercs is super scared of a clan half their size that plays all-X countries

Dragon why are you so sensitive. you go off the handle over the smallest fluff. examples:

rockman telling you hes better then you and you pulling the NBK syndrome.

crippler grabbing you while at war and you intentionally grabbing our biggest country as "payback"

NBK topfeeding you and you deleting all your countries because of it.

CX, I know specific people in Omega who've gotten over 140m allx..

i'd be incredibly interested to know who and with what strat havoc. got numbers? :P don't feel like searching eestats

Tko will continue playing within the rules

if a player wants to self farm, land trade, grab others or allx -good for them

as stated in the past TKO will not limit its members options

and all this crap about who's better??

TKO doesnt give a crap, we are here to enjoy ourselves not to prove we are as good or bad as someone else

it was 163 million a few sets ago.

well this isn't what i was thinking of but here is 176 mill and 150 mill in omega, i believe those were smaller land
http://www.eestats.com/...ce/oldtoptencountries/162


here is the 164 mill the next set, thats on 28k land or so
http://www.eestats.com/...ce/oldtoptencountries/183


it doesn't happen often, but it is possible.

The CLAN doesn't have to be afraid of anything. The kill run on one player wold be over before they could respond, I'm thinking. I know you like to stir fluff Ozz, but please note that I stated Ihave no problem with Mercs as a clan.

Let's not twist the words. kthxbye.

You know what? I am what I am. I react how I react. I prolly won't be coming to you anytime soon to review my decisions, and I'm not sure why you're running your suck when you don't have a dog in the fight.

I had, like, a $120M networth country in Alliance when I was playing with Evo. A trained monkey can get that kind of NW in Alliance if they're pacted right because they don't have to spend much on defense. A bunch of low-defense, heavily-pacted land pigs is what 1A is about. That's Talent? I think not.

Me stir fluff?

How dare you!

thinks this is funny

I know. You'd NEVER do such a thing. I am chastened. ;)

See angryjesus's last post.. 170m+ with a demo farmer