History Repeats?

Early April 23rd, 2005, SoF and MD first struck SoL without warning or cause. The point of the war was to announce a new sherriff in town, 'Project Arcturus'. Comprised of most of the old TIL members, it wanted to wipe SoL/Arrow off the the map in one quick strike. Their joint FS was, while not terribly impressive compared to some of the great first strikes of the era, devastating to a greatly outnumbered SOL. Combined SoF and MD put out about 15,000 attacks. SOL's breaking power was gone and the other half of 'Project Arcturus' (IX/PDM) were destroying our allies ARROW without cause or reason.

We tried a joint war chat, but poor cooperation, and poor coordination lead to its failure. SoL and other allies, ICN, Elysium, and Citadel retreated to their own respective chat rooms and attempted kills on their own.

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What has changed? For one, this war chased ARROW out of the game for good. Something Helmet wears as a pretty sick badge of honour. If you don't learn from the past, what hope for the future. Prepare to see more of the similar sort of threads from alliances in this current incarnation of the game:

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The Arrow Project Retires Tag

Greetings, Members of the Arrow Project.

Tonight I announce that the Arrow Project will be retiring the Arrow Tag at the end of this reset, in the game Earth2025.

The game of Earth2025 is a dying game. From 23,000 countries in the
game, we now see less than 6,000 countries.

The game doesn’t change, the politics don’t change, the game creator
doesn’t take interest in the game, and having talked to many of you,
you already see this, and agree The Arrow Project Members deserve much
better.

Arrow members are disappointed and unhappy with the way the game is
going and the way that Arrow is developing.

We are no longer enthusiastic about what we are doing in the Earth
Community.

We are no longer dedicated to fighting wars that seem to repeat the same
patterns reset after reset.

We have shown that we are no longer interested in continuing this course
of game play.

I believe that if Arrow continues to play in this game, we will quite
simply die; there is nothing Arrow will prove by staying in this game
for more resets of the same.

In a game where honesty and community are forsaken in the interests of
getting the upper hand, it is better to stand by your ideals than sink
to the level of others. The manner of play is more important than
attempted domination. And, when even your 'friends' start hitting you
for 'fun' it's time to reevaluate what you're doing.

The strongest statement Arrow could make about the state of the game and
1a politics is simply to leave for a better game.

Arrow is not having fun in this game anymore. It doesn’t make sense for
us to stay here.

Arrow leaders have been able to see this coming for a long time, and we
have looked at other games, read many game forums, and researched other
options for game play.

Having said that, a handful of Arrow Leaders have joined the EVE-online
gaming community and started making characters, and playing in a truly
beautiful and exciting game.

WOW, what a difference, is all I can say.

We invite you all to join us in EVE; Arrow is right now setting up our
own corporation, learning the ropes and HAVING FUN!

I know many of you are going to be feeling many different things after
reading this post, and I understand that you will have many questions
and concerns about what this going to mean for you.

We will be giving out more information in the next few weeks as we find
out more, and I look forward to discussing our new direction with all
of you.

Blazewyn

I heard they had a pretty good cause this time around.

dagga - ask your heads about Slagpits previous statement. Though the current SoL heads will just probably spin some fluff as they usually do.

Seeing as you are bringing up history. SoL have a long history of honourless play.... including breaking FDPs, dropping FDPs and FSing the next reset, FSing for no reason and taking part in trying to wipe alliances off of a server. If the SoL heads acted with a shred of honour then SoL wouldn't be in the mess they are now. Instead of blaming everyone else for picking on poor little SoL and how these actions will bring impending doom for the game, how about you question the SoL heads about how they got your alliance into this situation. It is arrogant, poor leadership that got SoL gangbanged. That is what you should be whining about, not how the the game is going downhill because alliances are standing up against it.

Dear dagga,

Project Arcturus couldn't have succeeded without you. This will get you a little closer to that dream of yours. It's not the Dallas Cowboys, but it's a start.

Drop me a line if you're on the East Coast,
pang.

Can't preach to those who deny all faith, let the sinners be sinners and keep the flock tendered.

In otherwords to you it doesn't matter what a SoL head says because you've already made up your own mind so pointless even discussing it.

Can't really talk about Honor when gangbanging, "lets get rid of SoL the gangbangers by gangbanging"... lovely, lets get rid of third world poverty by slaughtering them all.

that's not really an accurate comparison, Steeps...

getting rid of gangbangers by gangbanging would be giving someone a taste of their own medicine.

getting rid of third world poverty by killing them is just... weird.

maybe you're looking for something more like... stopping shark attacks by training other sea life to attack and kill other sharks?

but then when the the sharks, the octopuses and the squid get attacked by the whales, the dolphins, the swordfish and the lobster, you'll end up with sharks starting threads about how the whales made manatees go extinct...

anyway, i digress...

OH THE HUGE MANATEEEEEEEE!!!!!!

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/...2640789668_48a2a84ddf.jpg

Damn whales

Wasn't it just a few resets ago that you, Pang, were complaining about how SOF and SOL were destroying this game with their warring of netting alliances?? I guess when you're in bed with one of the evils, its no longer an issue, is it?

Directly after Project Arcturus SoL decided to join the IX side, for self preservation reasons. This became the SLIT coalition.

good point here.....

Hmmm, great story, but I quit cold turkey in 2003 and had no involvement in SoF until late 2010. I didn't know or care why Arrow left, I was just glad to see they were gone when I got back.

Thunder, I am as amazed as you are at Pangs flip flopping. He campaigned very hard against SOL when we were fighting LaF. Subsequently we announced changes and carried them out.

It seems his hatred runs deep.

And Helmet, the point of you enjoying the fact SoF + co killed off an alliance with your BUTTDART stuff is the main point. I don't agree that any alliance leaving the game is a good thing.

I dont get this :p

Whoops hit the quote button instead of edit :p

dagga,
just cause Nukevil gave a history lesson in your previous thread....doesn't mean you need to try to grow up to be just like him.

You obviously missed the part where he cut and pasted my post? lol

Dagga: the only cut and paste involving Nuk looks like you cutting and pasting. So please, remember not to actually eat the paste.

Arrow had already planned to leave and had already setup EVE as their destination prior to the round. They only posted that as a reason for guilt purposes.

I admit I was unhappy with the way Project Arcturus turned out - my hope had been for the rest of the server to rise up in opposition. Sadly Project Arcturus ended for the same reason it started - boredom in a stale political environment.

Angelous approached me about starting such a coalition and having very little interest in the game anymore I decided ultimately "fluff it, who cares" and helped get this going and invited MD on board. I put forth the name because it was a world domination scheme of sorts and the Globex episode is my favorite Simpsons episode.

dagga.. cutting his own fingers and eating paste since the first grade

For the record I wasn't exactly in favor of the whole project Arcturus thing although I never really said so publically. I can't remember exactly why sof got involved with that and prior to this point sof was somewhat fence sitting. For the record I didn't take over sof until a couple of resets after that for unrelated reasons.

The funny thing with SLIT is that some of the leaders behind that actually invited SoF to join in at some point in exchange for knocking out one of the other members of that group at a later point. In all honesty deciding which side to be on was one of the longest and most difficult debates/decisions I had to face during my entire reign as sof prez. Backing sof out of being involved with both sets of coalitions ended up being more work that I would have liked.

My impression was that some of IX's leadership had a very destructive view towards the game back then in terms of eliminating or crippling tags. Others were actually quite reasonable to deal with. TIE and SoL's leadership was somewhat saner..


I guess neither coalition was really all that solid over the long run though although in general my stance was always anti-large coalition. I was much happier having a handful of allies who we could work with on a reset by reset basis withough getting into long drawn out messy stuff.


It seems so long ago now.


And yes, it was a great simpsons episode, but the stonecutters episode is still better:P

lol @ the stonecutters episode

Really? Bringing up fluff 6 years old because your other threads failed to spin?

1) There is a GIGANTIC difference between being glad to see an alliance gone and plotting to destroy it.

2) You've failed to prove SoF destroyed Arrow.

Don't give up on the spinning though. It's entertaining!

Thunder, you must not remember correctly or, more likely, you have become someone who has selective memory, if that's your point about me.

First, I've been playing in PDM for a while now and have no affiliation with any of the alliances involved in this war, short of being a former member of SoL, LCN, LaF, SoF and NA and hosting the clan site for 3 of those folks.

But do you remember when SoL flamed me daily about posting my opinion about what was good for the game/server? When I was trying to get folks to agree to fight eachother in more arranged wars and create a better server for new players/struggling alliances, they were saying I shouldn't do anything and just let the server evolve/devolve on its own because it didn't go along with their way of playing.

I decided that it wasn't worth the effort to attempt to work with them any longer as they were clearly only caring about themselves , since they were more concerned about character assassination than the actual issues, so I just focused on my own stuff and let this server continue to devolve.

But the point I've been making about this war is that when you go around the server making everyone into your enemy for a year and a half you're eventually going to get bit in the ass. Whether or not you feel these alliances had a reason to be upset with SoL they were obviously upset enough to do something about it and wanted to make a statement.

When a netter gets hit because they pissed off SoL, SoL says "well what did you expect? you grabbed us more than anyone else, so war! Even though you have no turns saved and are running mainly all-x demo cashers!"
Well, the same thing happens in reverse -- piss off enough people by forcing them into wars and eventually they're going to stand up and do something about it. The thing that I don't get is why SoL needs to run to AT flooding the forum with anger filled spin posts when these alliances finally gave SoL what it claimed to have wanted: a difficult war against skilled opponents.
It just makes it look like SoL can dish it out, but can't take it. This is not the first time Maki's planning has left major holes and SoL and their allies got hosed for it.

Maybe if SoL had taken my advice and stopped trying to bully the server and instead looked out for its best interests they wouldn't have a line of people who were happy to hit them and their allies this round. Just sayin'...

Anyway, as an admin, I'd be much more inclined to 'do something' if 3 things were different:
1) The core of people who are complaining now didn't spend a year trying to perform character assassinations on me, as an admin, for my ingame politics and for having the same beliefs that they are now citing in their posts ("what you're doing isn't good for the game").
2) If I thought one reset of the tables being turned was bad for the game
3) If I thought that alliances who look to be on the losing side this round were looking to be in such bad shape they may fold because of it.

It doesn't make me feel good to see a lot of people having an unenjoyable round (if that is what is happening in some of those tags) but I also don't think it's all that bad when the political realm gets shaken up for 1 reset.

Also, if you don't get my Project Arcturus note reference then you are obviously not well informed about Project Arcturus. :)

Edit:
After rereading that, it look a little more divisive than I had intended... the main takeaway I wanted to get across was that SoL's way of playing created a lot of friction and that friction finally caught fire this reset. I hope that everyone takes this as a challenge to rise to the occasion and no one tries to grind away anyone's members or things like that. :)

Somehow I never made the Arrow connection with the butt darts sig. That makes it awesome.

interesting. Arrow left when Mehul started cracking down on the multies, and now EVE is experiencing bot wars. coincidence? i think not.

YES! Can we get back to the sea kingdom analogy. I feel like it's the more entertaining method of spinning history.

Maybe we could add a pirate? Yarrrr!

Also the reason Arrow folded was because they were a pile of fail. They lost like 20 wars in a row, whether 1 vs 1, coalition and even with a number advantage.

Pang, you could have summed it up by saying the following;

"I no longer have the urge to carry on my crusade against stupid wars because it is SOL that is getting nailed."

You cry about character assasinations yet you blame Makinso for SOLs predicament. You again say SOL are bullying the server yet there is no evidence of that for a year now.

The game has taken a huge step backwards, and will "devolve" further and faster now but you don't really care because you openly state you think the alliances getting gangbanged deserved it. Amazing.

"3) If I thought that alliances who look to be on the losing side this round were looking to be in such bad shape they may fold because of it."

So when these wars last several resets, inevitably bringing in several other smaller alliances who will fold, then what?

i'm not going to get into another mud slinging match...

you complained when I was actively pursuing an agenda of improved cooperation and friendly atmosphere on the server, I stopped and now you're criticizing me for not saying that SoL fighting a losing war for the first time in 2 years is bad for the server. stop your bullfluff spinning and go fight the war ingame. (edit: i think SoL actually did lose a war or two, but this would be the only one where I would say SoL maybe didn't have an enjoyable round)

\you've missed the point made by me and many others... you've tried to distill things down to something they're not and I think even you know that at this point.

Heh Pang.

SOL always has an enjoyable round win or loss.

This was bound to happen we planned for it just a bit later then it all went down. It´s no worry honestly. It´s good to see people finally getting some balls again and stepping up for what they believe in.

Some tags who have been VERY vocal in the past have turned silent now and vice versa. It´s a good move and we´re happy to see something finally happen.

As for the future. We´ll see what it brings it can only become more fun from this point on as the cards are on the table, they just haven´t been played yet.

And if history shows something it is that SOL never lost anything while being under pressure :-) if anything it returns old vets and brings out the best in SOL internally.

Heh everyone has an enjoyable round when dagga starts crying.

Dagga this is ridiculous. No one wants Sol gone from the server. You made Sol look better when you were quiet.

What netters were hit other then NA? I don't think too many people have said that NA being hit is a good thing. I don't think it is.

It is better for the game to not have sof and sol on the same bed also.

Pang is NOT in Laf and hasnt been here for awhile. Think he played in Sol and PDm since then. Maybe it was SOF/PDM.

And lastly, IX was more key to killing arrow then sof imo. What with all the bots and multies they used to do it and such.

that's all good and the reaction I had hoped SoL would have... why did it take a week and a half to make it out in public while dagga was crying?

http://tinyurl.com/3whn3yz

Umm, everything?

There was sooo much quotable material in there that I nearly had an orgasm, but I condensed it down to that one sentence because I totally dig low hanging fruit.

(FTW, Wacking Day pwned the stonecutters)

all I have to say about the simpsons debate is the following:

Homer: Uh... you have any sugar around here?
Hank Scorpio: Sugar? Sure.
[takes two handfuls of sugar out of his pockets]
Hank Scorpio: There you go. Sorry it's not in packages. Want some cream?
[reaches back into his pockets]
Homer: Uh... I... no.

For you Pang:

Bart: So, what you in here for?
Remiedial Child #1: I'm from Canada and everyone thinks I'm slow, eh.

thanks makinso for being a voice of reason.

i kept LT off AT recently, maybe you should clamp down on dagga too ;)

i have no doubts SOL will survive this easily. they've seen much worse in the past and came out of it stronger than ever. that's what makes them the way they are, and one of the only alliances still continuously existing since the beginning of e2025 alliance game in 1998.

For informational purposes only, Project Arcturus is also known as World War X.

World War IX? perhaps?

Nah, IX and their allies lost that war.

IX and allies are an oxymoron

eventually they will get backstabbed ;)

Not anymore, since IX no longer exists :P

700,000,000 facebook users. dang, the userlist alone will max out at 14G just using 20 characters per username. wonder how many Gigs the ban list will max out at?

you can't post here at this time because we have experienced supreme harddrive failure and as such can't guarantee that you're allowed to be posting to begin with!

Good to see. Your rank and file--at least the ones I have messaged with ingame don't seem to agree and are upset they were outgunned. I tried explaining politely that bully tactics don't result in evenly matched responses on the playground. But if you guys get it then that's progress from this LCNer's point of view.