Well said.

I agree too with that. If there was no using DR, then self farming would be a self solving issue.

You and I disagree less and less, K4F. That's scary. =P

I agree with the anti self farmers on the DR issue, at least we all can come to a conclusion on something right?

So at least everyone seems to be agreeing, self farming is allowed, DR is not, everyone is happier :P

Yes, i do believe the DR is the issue...So we all really could care less about the self-farming,evidently.

well that was always the biter. Self farmers always putting themselves into DR when others have said if you cannot protect your land then why complain?

I think if someone can self farm, and still protect their land then awesome, but DR was always lame. If you have a string of 16 netters, all 16 self farming or land trading, there is getting your land back unless you have a L:L policy which noone here accepts. Is it that hard to keep a low land retaller?

so, how do we go about getting the admin/mods to consider the DR idea?

and, if accepted, how can they set it up to differentiate between a self-farmer and a reg Lger say farming a small clan or, during war time. A country might use their opponents country as a land farm until they kill it....etc....etc

well it would have to be same tag vs same tag DR pretty much

ok, that's makes sense. Now, let's see if we can get a one set test run.

Then people would put some countries outside the tag to attack inwards to get their DR.

Hmm, it needs to be a landgrab specific type of DR, and DR that measures successful attacks, instead of failed ones. That way they cant just bounce 10 SS off.

lolol, yes, we do have sum very experienced players playing this game. That's y I LUV this game.

It could be done with your API keys
Keys match= no dr

Sorry guys... The DR suggestions have already been shot down as well...


http://forums.earthempires.com/...x-the-self-farming-in-ffa



And people wonder why I am upset over this. Nobody's suggestions are taken serious because someone in particular has a biased opinion on the subject.

Smurf your idea was dismissed cos. A your figures were wrong B you continued to threaten to kill self farmers if something wasn't done C having a hissy fit and making another threat

I don't like countries getting put into DR, but you are complaining about maybe 10 countries doing it out of the whole server, so with your idea, most self farmers aren't affected.

I highly doubt you will see a lot of GS DR in TKO next reset

It isn't so much the quantity of people doing it, but the effectiveness of it. One person can get tons tons tons more land and not worry about defense at all cause he is in DR defense.

That gives a massive netting advantage.

I can self farm 16 countries to 80k land. And transfer my goods to one country, that's my point it has to be something that affect all self farmers if you want to limit their advantage

Your idea was shot down because it sucked.

As soon as we get rid of the ability to protect self farmed countries from DR, we will have cries to weaken the topfeeding curve.

Could always just get 1 country from every series a member has and make it a anti Self Farmer, AB'er :P

no ghost acres for any grabs done inside a tag.. that way you're not getting a huge advantage just transferring what land you have into one country

What I don't get Is it's mainly ppl from war clans complaining the most

I think I need to start self-farming.

So far I've been all-X, because last set was my first set back, and in the old days I never self-farmed, I lged. Problem is that this server really isn't large enough to lg properly. When people played 100's of countries, we all had a personal farm tag, because there were 100's of clans as well. So you'd find one who couldn't or wouldn't retal you and get your land. Now, that just isn't possible because every country is either in a big clan, or is a one-man-clan, and you just don't have enough targets to lg feed 16 with land.

I've said before self-farming is clearly an advantage... So why isn't everyone doing it?

If you have some real moral objections to it, then I understand and respect that. (not that I understand WHY you have moral objections to it, I understand only THAT you do)

if there were no ghost acres involved in self farming, would you anti self farmers not have a problem with people transfering land between countries?

to be more precise, is your only gripe with self farming that people are taking advantage of ghost acres, or is it because they refuse to landgrab you?

I won't sugar coat it. I don't believe in Self Farming one bit. And I'd love to see it eliminated at some point.


BUT... (Part 1)


I am a realist, I know that will likely never happen. Ever. So Swords will just stick to our personal views of not Self Farming and not pacting clans that do.



BUT... (Part 2)


I also believe that the current game mechanics completely stack netgaining in the Self Farmers favor.

My current issue, and the reason why I am vocal about this, is that those of us that believe Self Farming is "Not within the Spirit of the Server" are being punished. Because of our personal views on Self Farming, we cannot compete with Self Farmers in NW. That is unfair, and should be fixed.



But... (Part 3)


The Game Admins are not willing to admit there is an issue here. Even after a TON of posts about it. We just want our voice heard, and suggestions taken seriously. Instead of tossed in the trash because certain Game Admins enjoy the current game mechanics and don't have any moral issues with Self Farming.



In Closing...


Make Self Farming balanced with other strategies, so people with moral issues against Self Farming can still compete. Changing the DR Mechanics, Changing the Ghost Acre Mechanics, or Changing the Attack Mechanics, may help balance it out. Instead of being completely BIASED, look at what the community is suggesting.



How many people have said the DR system is completely fluffed? I wouldn't even waste my time trying to figure that number out, since EVERY person I have talked too does not like it the way it is.


How many people have said the DR system is good? I haven't seen 1 yet.



All I ask for is a Game Admin to take suggestions seriously, instead of posting stuff like "Your idea was shot down because it sucked."


How is reducing the length of a FAILED Special Attacks from 24hrs to 6hrs an "Idea that sucks"?


Is there 1 good reason other than to protect Self Farmers, why does the DR length of a FAILED Special Attack would put a country in SS/PS DR for 24hrs? Not any that I can think of...


Just do me a favor and listen to the rest of the community. They have all stated the same issues I have stated. I just go about it in a more aggressive way that most others.

i agree in part DS....

but i don't care about selffarmers cause im not worried about my NW or my finish...

So it doesn't effect how i play the game...

The thing i see in "their" self defence is that the land was theres in the first place and not taken from another player.....


Cant we all get along lol

I love you bsnake :) just wanted you to know that ;)

:)


i can see both sides of the arguement.... just let ppl play within the rules, the more the merrier...

Especially that last part... Ares doesn't self farm... i personally have no opinion on the issue... our player base is soo small... THE MORE THE MERRIER at the moment.

ive been asked to give an opinion on some future ffa changes , anyone who has detailed ideas, PM me with them and i'll bring them up

actually dedly, I don't self farm, never have, ever.

I just plan on doing it next set to piss you off. Also, I think slag's hostility is moreso aimed at how people are acting hostile over this entire thing, maybe if people were behaving like intelligent people and bringing up decent ideas in implimenting a change in the server like they for the most part have in this thread, instead of constantly bashing the admins...(...'s for fordy) maybe his views and responses would be a little more pleasant.

Attica! Attica! Attica!

You're right Despie.

I agree that people should not be hostile toward the game admins because their ideas aren't accepted. That's what I see from admins who have posted in this thread, they don't believe that the ideas are being brought to them in a constructive way, suggestions are often phrased in the form of an accusation, and that's just not how to get things done.

Having said that, however, admins should also grow a thick skin from verbal abuse, since it's part of the job, in any game ever. Slag's comment 'your idea was rejected because it sucked' WAS over the top, uncalled for and unprofessional. You can expect nonesense from players, who hav no responsibility except to play the game, but an admin should be above petty retorts.

When it comes to admins listening to and taking suggestions from players, I have another point of view though. Anybody play SWG? That game was designed to be and could have been the best MMORPG ever... It was pushed to release before it was finished, which caused many subsequent problems, but leaving that aside, it was ruined by Devs who listened to players, who complained inseasently. People were constantly whining that the player classes were unbalanced, so the Devs would boost this class or nerf that class in an attempt to please the players. Each time they tried to balance things, they made one side stronger or another weaker, and inevitably made the class that people said was too strong, now useless. It happened several times, and litterally ruined the game.

So, if the admins of this game are more hesitant to make changes to please some o the player membership, I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing.

You're right Despie.

I agree that people should not be hostile toward the game admins because their ideas aren't accepted. That's what I see from admins who have posted in this thread, they don't believe that the ideas are being brought to them in a constructive way, suggestions are often phrased in the form of an accusation, and that's just not how to get things done.

Having said that, however, admins should also grow a thick skin from verbal abuse, since it's part of the job, in any game ever. Slag's comment 'your idea was rejected because it sucked' WAS over the top, uncalled for and unprofessional. You can expect nonesense from players, who hav no responsibility except to play the game, but an admin should be above petty retorts.

When it comes to admins listening to and taking suggestions from players, I have another point of view though. Anybody play SWG? That game was designed to be and could have been the best MMORPG ever... It was pushed to release before it was finished, which caused many subsequent problems, but leaving that aside, it was ruined by Devs who listened to players, who complained inseasently. People were constantly whining that the player classes were unbalanced, so the Devs would boost this class or nerf that class in an attempt to please the players. Each time they tried to balance things, they made one side stronger or another weaker, and inevitably made the class that people said was too strong, now useless. It happened several times, and litterally ruined the game.

So, if the admins of this game are more hesitant to make changes to please some o the player membership, I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing.

Double post = WIN!

I'd go along with the idea of no self-DRing. I'd be willing to push for that to be a policy within PANLV.

Even though I've self-farmed, I've rarely used DRs. I thought it was tacky and, to be quite honest, too much work to do on a regular basis. And I rarely self-farmed to the level that I was ever that crazy fat of a country anyway.

the reason ffa is lame

aww the 1aer added his opinion!

how cute... who woulda thought they learned to form sentences already!

all the arguments/discussion for and against self-farming.
The bottom line that's not gonna change is, it's still a choice.
For and against, always has been. When they (mods/admin) created this game that was one of the things they included to try to make this game a lil more interesting., (I think) I lil diff from E2025.
To make this game a lil more inviting/enticing for us.(the player)


Correct me if I'm wrong, but, aren't the game architect former players of E2025, or were current players? If so, they would know about the limitations of old E2025, and try to make this game better.

Also, if I'm not mistaken, aren't the bulk of people playing this game playing on the FFA portion of this game? If so, WHY IS THAT?


I must admit, this discussion is opening a lot of people eyes on the advantages of self-farming, the anti self-farming community is not going to find viable reasons/solutions to do away with/limit/control that advantage.


As I said B 4, it's a choice. One that was instituted by the game admins.
We just didn't know the full potential of self-farming, and now that we've had a chance to see it (as more and more people do it), it turns out to be a major advantage to the user. Now, I'm neither for nor against self-farming. As I stated earlier, I tried it one set, it was ok. I was CHOOSE NOT TO DO IT AGAIN.


I'm not trying to sway anybody, or take sides. But, the anti self-farming community might havta come to grips with the fact that that part of the game might be here to stay. Just a thought.....Just as thought.