Verified:

UgolinoII

Member

619

Nov 20th 2019, 19:27:12

Originally posted by Gerdler:
If your purpose is to ruin other peoples game experience you are a griefer.


https://www.eestats.com/alliance/all/ranks/1678

This reset was so much fun, my game experience wasn't ruined at all lar~

140 Central Well of Malebolge 227 5,571 acres $6,779,989 DG 1217 Ugolino
369 Vexilla regis prodeunt inferni 484 900 acres $2,212,456 D 2458 Ugolino
70 Ameles Potamos 497 13,485 acres $32,240,282 D 2391 Ugolino

SoF killed my first, Imag killed my second. To my mind I have never hit either of those tags in any reset, let alone that one. LaF - notorious for taking care of suiciders - were notably uninvolved...

Anyway, my question is: Is this griefing?

Sure felt like it to me.

galleri

Game Moderator
Team & Express
10,906

Nov 20th 2019, 19:27:13

Originally posted by KoHeartsGPA:
I propose an all X PvP server where you can only hug them trees, it'll create that "safe space" people that don't want or have time to war, or just want to go all X.

I like safe words.



Chevs:
I have a question. Not trolling or anything, not making fun of you. And you may have answered this before.
But whhhyyyyyy no defense this far in? Only I thought I did that.



ninong
Member Sep 7th, 2006 3:22
i sure hope this galleri person isn't anoniem on drag *cringes*
Derrick to macdaddy:
I believe I could fluff Scarlett Johansson but that dont mean I actually could.

Chevs

Member

1310

Nov 20th 2019, 19:33:23

Originally posted by galleri:
Originally posted by KoHeartsGPA:
I propose an all X PvP server where you can only hug them trees, it'll create that "safe space" people that don't want or have time to war, or just want to go all X.

I like safe words.



Chevs:
I have a question. Not trolling or anything, not making fun of you. And you may have answered this before.
But whhhyyyyyy no defense this far in? Only I thought I did that.



Lol to beat Z ! Was at 35k tpt + 14m net income per turn
SOF Head Of Poop

Gerdler

Member

2464

Nov 20th 2019, 19:46:57

Originally posted by Chevs:
I said there’s “like” 10 servers

Only responding to that part of my post just shows you have no argument or have no interest in an honest discussion with people who have different opinions than yours

I didnt respond to you I responded to Red X.

When it comes to the other servers Primary and Express have a very potent GDI that makes netting viable there. Tournament someone needs to invest 2 months of playing to ruin someone in game A so that basically doesnt happen, wars break out over real ingame disputes like they are supposed to but there is very limited occurences of people playing only to ruin someone elses reset. So thats three servers with protective mechanisms.

If I stay out of GDI in primary or express and I name my country Gerdler in Tournament then of course Im inviting it but I have the option not to do that.

Team has always been a pretty bad server for many reasons, partly because suicides are so common there, but its no where near as common as in alliance right now where its guaranteed.

FFA is the best server to netgain the past few years. I have never been noticeably suicided there. Its just a server I dont have time to play or I would, also I dont enjoy the simplified grabbing there with like 2k bots and several important aspects of the landgrabbing formula actually removed specifically for that server.

So basically, we got Alliance and we cant netgain here at all these days. Three of the servers have mechanisms of protection and I believe very strongly that it makes them better than without those mechanisms.

Z [Post Script]

Member

56

Nov 20th 2019, 20:13:22

Originally posted by Chevs:
Originally posted by galleri:
Originally posted by KoHeartsGPA:
I propose an all X PvP server where you can only hug them trees, it'll create that "safe space" people that don't want or have time to war, or just want to go all X.

I like safe words.



Chevs:
I have a question. Not trolling or anything, not making fun of you. And you may have answered this before.
But whhhyyyyyy no defense this far in? Only I thought I did that.



Lol to beat Z ! Was at 35k tpt + 14m net income per turn


I told chevs he had no chance to beat me with tech prices. But he didn’t listen. Ever the optimist?!?
-Z (Post Script)

Red X

Game Moderator
Primary, Express & Team
4013

Nov 20th 2019, 21:09:33

Originally posted by Chevs:
I said there’s “like” 10 servers

Only responding to that part of my post just shows you have no argument or have no interest in an honest discussion with people who have different opinions than yours


Eh? ok so how is 6 servers like 10.

I keep my opinion to myself about "grifers" "suciders" whatever you want to call them off the boards. It is not the same as everyones and I do not feed trolls
http://nbkffa.ghqnet.com

Jeffery Epstein did not kill himself.

KoHeartsGPA

Member

21,123

Nov 20th 2019, 21:30:48

If you don't know basic math you shouldn't even be in the vicinity of this game....
Mess with me you better kill me, or I'll just take your pride & joy and jack it up
(•_•)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6VRMGTwU4I
-=TSO~DKnights~XI~LaF=-

S.F. Giants 2010, 2012, 2014 World Series Champions, fluff YEAH!

Chadius

Member

364

Nov 20th 2019, 21:50:00

lmao
LAF

Chevs

Member

1310

Nov 20th 2019, 22:56:13

Originally posted by Chevs:
Originally posted by Gerdler:
If your purpose is to ruin other peoples game experience you are a griefer.


this is the other part that is vague to me.

from the perspective of some people, not being able to landgrab a 400k acre country is ruining their experience as well.

how do we define and quantify something as subjective as "ruining a players experience" is where i take exception to vague concepts and statements like this.


I would have rather you responded to my original post than my troll post where I was being hyperbolic , do you have a rebuttal to this Gerd?
SOF Head Of Poop

Gerdler

Member

2464

Nov 20th 2019, 23:50:31

I only wonder who is griefing them then?

The pacts they are bound by? So that would be their alliance leader then.

The status quo? So EVERYONE who plays or ever played who generated the pact and non-pact written and non-written rules of engagement?

I guess you don't suggest that the player who gets 400k acres is ruining the experience of others. I wouldn't feel I need to respond to that.

I can see that the game not being ideal for someone makes their game experience worse than it would otherwise be, but I dont see how that is similar to a player going out of his way to play only to ruin someone elses hobby.

I mean those rules that came about, lets say the Land:land policy that SoF introduced like 2002 or whenever it was, and when certain pact terms were introduced etc, those were not introduced with the expressed or unexpressed intention of making the game unbareable for a player or for a group of players so I dont see at all why it would be anything similar.
There could be situations that are harder to classify than this. Im not saying there isnt a grey area but I dont think this is even remotely in it.

That would be similar to if say I like Starcraft 2 better than EE and I suggested Pang is griefing me for not making this game identical to SC2.

Gerdler

Member

2464

Nov 20th 2019, 23:54:00

Just for the crowd that loves misrepresenting me:
Originally posted by Gerdler:
Pang is griefing me for not making this game identical to SC2.

tfm0m0

Member

158

Nov 21st 2019, 0:11:01

I'm so tired of that word already

Add it to the word filter with fluff fluff fluff fluff fluff

Original Skywise L

Member

517

Nov 21st 2019, 0:12:14

Now t
Originally posted by Gerdler:
Only Derrick has said he somewhat understands Requiems reasoning tho. You blow it way out of proportion if you suggest that what Derrick said is the sentiment of everyone.

That said. You legit ran 0 turrets 0 spies 0 tanks 0 troops when you got hit... No lafer that got suicided in the past 2 years ran that at this stage of the game or even weeks before it. You have been one of the ones who claimed we are underdefended and therefore victim blamed us - and yet as the record shows we are the most defended netting alliance in general and we are still targeted.
I think everyone, and certainly YOU, should stop using low defences as an arguement for getting hit. Its been established time and time again that no one can defend themselves against someone who wants to wreak your set, and its been shown time and time again that if you try you will not be in a position to do anything about the top ranks even if everyone leaves you alone.

The reason you got hit and the reason I got hit was because someone wanted to wreak our resets, period. This might not be a problem in itself but if you add to that the fact that both Trumpoz and Requiem ruined more than just one set, in fact about half a dozen each, in a few minutes. Think about that; 2 months of this hobby ruined for half a dozen players in ~15 minutes. That people quit over it is just a symptom of this imbalance.


I can agree with this post. Finally.
Skywise

Original Skywise L

Member

517

Nov 21st 2019, 0:16:35

Originally posted by Earth Watcher:
Requiem is a good guy, he just got pushed over the edge and struck back where he could. Well PS, I guess it's only funny when it happens to other netgainers, huh? Maybe being buddies with a griefer isn't the best idea?



I find every bit of this entertainment.
*eats pop corn
Skywise

Original Skywise L

Member

517

Nov 21st 2019, 0:21:12

Originally posted by KoHeartsGPA:
If you don't know basic math you shouldn't even be in the vicinity of this game....


I hate mathing...shhh
Skywise

Chevs

Member

1310

Nov 21st 2019, 0:34:03

Originally posted by Gerdler:
I only wonder who is griefing them then?

The pacts they are bound by? So that would be their alliance leader then.

The status quo? So EVERYONE who plays or ever played who generated the pact and non-pact written and non-written rules of engagement?

I guess you don't suggest that the player who gets 400k acres is ruining the experience of others. I wouldn't feel I need to respond to that.

I can see that the game not being ideal for someone makes their game experience worse than it would otherwise be, but I dont see how that is similar to a player going out of his way to play only to ruin someone elses hobby.

I mean those rules that came about, lets say the Land:land policy that SoF introduced like 2002 or whenever it was, and when certain pact terms were introduced etc, those were not introduced with the expressed or unexpressed intention of making the game unbareable for a player or for a group of players so I dont see at all why it would be anything similar.
There could be situations that are harder to classify than this. Im not saying there isnt a grey area but I dont think this is even remotely in it.

That would be similar to if say I like Starcraft 2 better than EE and I suggested Pang is griefing me for not making this game identical to SC2.


Tbh I’m drunk rn and this got confusing . I’ll try again in the morning

Wait if I’m drunk does that mean I’m allowed to suicide now?
SOF Head Of Poop

Gerdler

Member

2464

Nov 21st 2019, 0:35:14

ofc

KoHeartsGPA

Member

21,123

Nov 21st 2019, 0:46:51

Originally posted by Original Skywise L:
Originally posted by KoHeartsGPA:
If you don't know basic math you shouldn't even be in the vicinity of this game....


I hate mathing...shhh


That's different from being unable ;-)

Originally posted by Chevs:
Originally posted by Gerdler:
I only wonder who is griefing them then?

The pacts they are bound by? So that would be their alliance leader then.

The status quo? So EVERYONE who plays or ever played who generated the pact and non-pact written and non-written rules of engagement?

I guess you don't suggest that the player who gets 400k acres is ruining the experience of others. I wouldn't feel I need to respond to that.

I can see that the game not being ideal for someone makes their game experience worse than it would otherwise be, but I dont see how that is similar to a player going out of his way to play only to ruin someone elses hobby.

I mean those rules that came about, lets say the Land:land policy that SoF introduced like 2002 or whenever it was, and when certain pact terms were introduced etc, those were not introduced with the expressed or unexpressed intention of making the game unbareable for a player or for a group of players so I dont see at all why it would be anything similar.
There could be situations that are harder to classify than this. Im not saying there isnt a grey area but I dont think this is even remotely in it.

That would be similar to if say I like Starcraft 2 better than EE and I suggested Pang is griefing me for not making this game identical to SC2.


Tbh I’m drunk rn and this got confusing . I’ll try again in the morning

Wait if I’m drunk does that mean I’m allowed to suicide now?


Yes, pick me, pick me!
Mess with me you better kill me, or I'll just take your pride & joy and jack it up
(•_•)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6VRMGTwU4I
-=TSO~DKnights~XI~LaF=-

S.F. Giants 2010, 2012, 2014 World Series Champions, fluff YEAH!

Original Skywise L

Member

517

Nov 21st 2019, 1:42:15

Even the idea of ruining a country is questionable. Not allowing them to win, or even finish to top ten (11th!)... when you know that country capable... is this greifing, or like a page from Ebert, showing that player that you will not except their hit on you... even once... because it's your county. And killing may be undoable or waste too many turns, after all, it's your choice Not to play for a ranked finish. I'm not saying a blindside. I'm saying as a retal. Is this considered grefing?
Can't do that if they have GDI you say? Well what if then I decide to go all jets and hit them several times ( or even once for over 2k acres and their stocks , all over a 200A hit they took on Thursday) in the last 6 hours of Express... is this greifing?
How about I don't tag up in Alliance and get farmed and when I retal more than the alliance that hit me accepts, or
send a missile for my retaliation (play against norms) and the alliance then kill-runs me...who is the greifer if same player comes back to do as much possible damage to said alliance? I'm gonna assume both in this instance with the Alliance being the primary fault. But hey, they are many, and have 'better' players anyways. More than one player will cry about it on AT and over- run the 'democracy' of the situation. ( Like true democracy has any place in a war game.)
How about if a player is dumb enough or just plain fluffy enough to use the same country name over and over again after doing something stupid during a set; any previous set using same country name. Is it greifing to get revenge that they are obviously offering up as opportunity, since they are playing a game where basic human nature should be a consideration in skills needed?
You really have to cover this terminology with more than you are giving, as it's used for everything under the sun.
Should a person not have the want to get payback, or even stop in their tracks someone they see as a strong competition against them? Is not patience a virtue, and guerrilla warefare still warefare?
Have not 'greifers' also invested/ wasted their time and efforts? Is your time and effort worth more because you are awesome- sauce?
Do you feel better when you get what you want? I do. Taking away what someone else wants is a form of retaliation... revenge. This game is after all, also a human social experiment.
If I'm in an alliance on the alliance server but play in Primary or Express, knowing other members of my alliance also playing there, and my only collusion is that of just not hitting them, but if also hitting humans outside of bots, if bots, is this untalked about collusion a form of greifing... because of choosing to hit a smaller selection of humans?
Is hitting humans on Any server where there are bots, is this not greifing? I mean, it upsets the person hit, even ruins their game if competing against similar players not getting hit. If you are competing to win out over a specific country only, after you are set back, is it not competing to then set them back in some way? Certainly fees 'greify'...new word!
Greif basically comes from getting hit at all and having to work around it, but multiple hits ruin a set, compared to those not getting hit at all? If this is the case, should not everyone be hit to keep competitive, say, when you see someone very fat and feel the field needs a better margin.
I'm not actually questioning all of thus for myself, but they're are others here that in fact do these things for a reason. You have to figure out their reason...try to politic it even in Express. All part of the game, and helps you get to know the players, even the ass holes.

I'm just watching the Mask Singer and wanted another long post to make you all read. I REALLY DON'T even care. I know I'm changing no minds as to the accepted greifer term... even I get it. I'll write another book later.. commercial is off, and fixing all of my typos is killing my watching time.

Tigress made me do it.
Skywise

Original Skywise L

Member

517

Nov 21st 2019, 2:05:44

I'm just waiting for all the subsequent posts quoting that last post in some way, lol....fill the screen peeps

My guess is Roo Paul is the Lepoard
Skywise

KoHeartsGPA

Member

21,123

Nov 21st 2019, 2:07:54

Originally posted by Original Skywise L:
Even the idea of ruining a country is questionable. Not allowing them to win, or even finish to top ten (11th!)... when you know that country capable... is this greifing, or like a page from Ebert, showing that player that you will not except their hit on you... even once... because it's your county. And killing may be undoable or waste too many turns, after all, it's your choice Not to play for a ranked finish. I'm not saying a blindside. I'm saying as a retal. Is this considered grefing?
Can't do that if they have GDI you say? Well what if then I decide to go all jets and hit them several times ( or even once for over 2k acres and their stocks , all over a 200A hit they took on Thursday) in the last 6 hours of Express... is this greifing?
How about I don't tag up in Alliance and get farmed and when I retal more than the alliance that hit me accepts, or
send a missile for my retaliation (play against norms) and the alliance then kill-runs me...who is the greifer if same player comes back to do as much possible damage to said alliance? I'm gonna assume both in this instance with the Alliance being the primary fault. But hey, they are many, and have 'better' players anyways. More than one player will cry about it on AT and over- run the 'democracy' of the situation. ( Like true democracy has any place in a war game.)
How about if a player is dumb enough or just plain fluffy enough to use the same country name over and over again after doing something stupid during a set; any previous set using same country name. Is it greifing to get revenge that they are obviously offering up as opportunity, since they are playing a game where basic human nature should be a consideration in skills needed?
You really have to cover this terminology with more than you are giving, as it's used for everything under the sun.
Should a person not have the want to get payback, or even stop in their tracks someone they see as a strong competition against them? Is not patience a virtue, and guerrilla warefare still warefare?
Have not 'greifers' also invested/ wasted their time and efforts? Is your time and effort worth more because you are awesome- sauce?
Do you feel better when you get what you want? I do. Taking away what someone else wants is a form of retaliation... revenge. This game is after all, also a human social experiment.
If I'm in an alliance on the alliance server but play in Primary or Express, knowing other members of my alliance also playing there, and my only collusion is that of just not hitting them, but if also hitting humans outside of bots, if bots, is this untalked about collusion a form of greifing... because of choosing to hit a smaller selection of humans?
Is hitting humans on Any server where there are bots, is this not greifing? I mean, it upsets the person hit, even ruins their game if competing against similar players not getting hit. If you are competing to win out over a specific country only, after you are set back, is it not competing to then set them back in some way? Certainly fees 'greify'...new word!
Greif basically comes from getting hit at all and having to work around it, but multiple hits ruin a set, compared to those not getting hit at all? If this is the case, should not everyone be hit to keep competitive, say, when you see someone very fat and feel the field needs a better margin.
I'm not actually questioning all of thus for myself, but they're are others here that in fact do these things for a reason. You have to figure out their reason...try to politic it even in Express. All part of the game, and helps you get to know the players, even the ass holes.

I'm just watching the Mask Singer and wanted another long post to make you all read. I REALLY DON'T even care. I know I'm changing no minds as to the accepted greifer term... even I get it. I'll write another book later.. commercial is off, and fixing all of my typos is killing my watching time.

Tigress made me do it.


My head hurts now.
Mess with me you better kill me, or I'll just take your pride & joy and jack it up
(•_•)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6VRMGTwU4I
-=TSO~DKnights~XI~LaF=-

S.F. Giants 2010, 2012, 2014 World Series Champions, fluff YEAH!

Original Skywise L

Member

517

Nov 21st 2019, 2:17:54

Ooo, I put except instead of accept and no grammer Nazi called me out before "I" noticed it! Sweet.
Skywise

KoHeartsGPA

Member

21,123

Nov 21st 2019, 2:20:10

Good save my friend :-)
Mess with me you better kill me, or I'll just take your pride & joy and jack it up
(•_•)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6VRMGTwU4I
-=TSO~DKnights~XI~LaF=-

S.F. Giants 2010, 2012, 2014 World Series Champions, fluff YEAH!

Gerdler

Member

2464

Nov 21st 2019, 3:24:54

To skywise:
I dont get why most of those examples would constitute griefing. If you get hit you are allowed to retal, period. You can get into a dispute over what a fair retal is and that wouldn't constitute anything of the kind. Im not saying theres not a grey zone Im saying you have not found it. Most of those examples are just of conflict that can happen when players try to impose their own policies on solo servers.

When it comes to collusion its cheating. I generally think the mods are too lenient in deletions, but some have suggested that people who know each others have to hit each others on solo servers for it to not be collusion, that is complete bs imo. First off its not applicable to tournament or express since you generally leave the vast majority of the player played countries alone there. Secondly, when it comes to primary where it would actually possibly be a thing, I think it would be more scary if there was many cases of people who play in the same tag exchanging hits often. Having one less target to single-tap in primary can be quite costly. Either way when it comes to collusion the mods are doing a fine job - I would move the needle a bit, and there is definatly a grey zone. But most noteably there is nothing about it that relates to the discussion we are having in this thread.
It is, however, an example of an area where we have a term "collusion" that is so important that it gets people deleted, and there is still a grey zone that people can disagree about, and there are even very likely cases where collusion has indeed happened but mods have given the benefit of the doubt to the player.
Not many terms come without a grey zone and they are still important terms. I did not create this term nor did I bring it to earth empires. I know that it has been used almost a decade ago and perhaps before, for instance by Slagpit, to describe the same type of behaviours as I am doing.

What you are saying is that because the astronomers recently reclassified Pluto as a dwarf planet instead of a planet we can't use the term planet anymore as there is a historically different view on what the definition should be or a grey zone.

I encourage you to use the term griefing only for the most obvious cases, and I encourage you to not blow a gasket just because you don't know every hypothetical scenario that it encompasses or doesn't.
Attacking a well established term's existance leads you no-where.

I honestly think that covers it.

TL;DR Next person who asks me if x,y,z is griefing if the conditions a,b,c are met and the parameters o,n,w are equal to f,d and t, respectively, can g,f,y.

Drow

Member

1296

Nov 21st 2019, 3:36:25

*pre emptively GFY's*

Retired Earth type.

Original Skywise L

Member

517

Nov 21st 2019, 3:59:29

Originally posted by Gerdler:
To skywise:
I dont get why most of those examples would constitute griefing. If you get hit you are allowed to retal, period. You can get into a dispute over what a fair retal is and that wouldn't constitute anything of the kind. Im not saying theres not a grey zone Im saying you have not found it. Most of those examples are just of conflict that can happen when players try to impose their own policies on solo servers.

When it comes to collusion its cheating. I generally think the mods are too lenient in deletions, but some have suggested that people who know each others have to hit each others on solo servers for it to not be collusion, that is complete bs imo. First off its not applicable to tournament or express since you generally leave the vast majority of the player played countries alone there. Secondly, when it comes to primary where it would actually possibly be a thing, I think it would be more scary if there was many cases of people who play in the same tag exchanging hits often. Having one less target to single-tap in primary can be quite costly. Either way when it comes to collusion the mods are doing a fine job - I would move the needle a bit, and there is definatly a grey zone. But most noteably there is nothing about it that relates to the discussion we are having in this thread.
It is, however, an example of an area where we have a term "collusion" that is so important that it gets people deleted, and there is still a grey zone that people can disagree about, and there are even very likely cases where collusion has indeed happened but mods have given the benefit of the doubt to the player.
Not many terms come without a grey zone and they are still important terms. I did not create this term nor did I bring it to earth empires. I know that it has been used almost a decade ago and perhaps before, for instance by Slagpit, to describe the same type of behaviours as I am doing.

What you are saying is that because the astronomers recently reclassified Pluto as a dwarf planet instead of a planet we can't use the term planet anymore as there is a historically different view on what the definition should be or a grey zone.

I encourage you to use the term griefing only for the most obvious cases, and I encourage you to not blow a gasket just because you don't know every hypothetical scenario that it encompasses or doesn't.
Attacking a well established term's existance leads you no-where.

I honestly think that covers it.

TL;DR Next person who asks me if x,y,z is griefing if the conditions a,b,c are met and the parameters o,n,w are equal to f,d and t, respectively, can g,f,y.



Gerdler. I was trolling you. Hehehe
Nothing more... just bored. Thanks for responding intelligently though. I threw collusion in there for just that reason. I get my kicks on a warped sense of humor. The length of your response made my friggin' night. Thank you.
Skywise

Original Skywise L

Member

517

Nov 21st 2019, 4:02:09

Also, loved the humorous ending. Not to be dismissed. *
(Fragment sentences are also how I talk.)

*grammer Police; badge #50
Skywise

Gerdler

Member

2464

Nov 21st 2019, 4:14:24

Not gonna lie, I enjoyed it a bit too. :P

trumpoz

Member

636

Nov 21st 2019, 5:32:52

Originally posted by Original Skywise L:

*grammer Police; badge #50


Where is Assassin when you need him?

UgolinoII

Member

619

Nov 21st 2019, 11:23:19

Originally posted by Gerdler:
To skywise:
I encourage you to use the term griefing only for the most obvious cases, and I encourage you to not blow a gasket just because you don't know every hypothetical scenario that it encompasses or doesn't.
Attacking a well established term's existance leads you no-where.


Lol. Thats the point though isn't it. It's all a matter of perspective.

For me griefing only applies when there is an imbalance of skill/effort - this is directly due to a specific game mechanic exploit (that prime is fixing.

Anything else. Well thats just people choosing how they want to play. Be that so called suiciding, or "legitimate" war. Both are probably going to get you killed.

Thats just my opinion though. You might think differently. That is where the "obviousness" test falls over though. Popular opinion is only popular, and the majority of people are stupid ;)

So with pang's new fix in place there is no game mechanic being exploited as such, and so any perceived issue over greifing/suiciding or w/e you want to call it can't be "fixed" in game.

I'm labouring the point now so sorry if I sound like a stuck record: If you want people to play nice (that doesn't mean not hitting/warring btw) don't give them the invisibility cloak. That way lies ruin. It should be familiar. We are already in it.

Wars can still happen, so what that people know who runs whats country, it's no big deal if it's the same for everyone. It might have an effect on target selection - skilled generals will now consider who is playing a country in their decision making process.

On the flip side when netting, you can see who you are up against... I honestly think it makes for a better experience all around because it is breaking down walls and opening up communication.

The problem we have is that everyone is so used to the status quo the idea of changing things will be abhorrent to them.

galleri

Game Moderator
Team & Express
10,906

Nov 22nd 2019, 2:12:21

Originally posted by Primeval:
Originally posted by Mr Gainsboro:
.... Sucks we have asked for this for years and basically alliances have to quit the game before you do something about it.


I wonder how many people have "quit" this game more than once during the same time period

I quit like every day :P



ninong
Member Sep 7th, 2006 3:22
i sure hope this galleri person isn't anoniem on drag *cringes*
Derrick to macdaddy:
I believe I could fluff Scarlett Johansson but that dont mean I actually could.

Tigress

Member

547

Nov 23rd 2019, 4:27:51

Originally posted by Original Skywise L:
Even the idea of ruining a country is questionable. Not allowing them to win, or even finish to top ten (11th!)... when you know that country capable... is this greifing, or like a page from Ebert, showing that player that you will not except their hit on you... even once... because it's your county. And killing may be undoable or waste too many turns, after all, it's your choice Not to play for a ranked finish. I'm not saying a blindside. I'm saying as a retal. Is this considered grefing?
Can't do that if they have GDI you say? Well what if then I decide to go all jets and hit them several times ( or even once for over 2k acres and their stocks , all over a 200A hit they took on Thursday) in the last 6 hours of Express... is this greifing?
How about I don't tag up in Alliance and get farmed and when I retal more than the alliance that hit me accepts, or
send a missile for my retaliation (play against norms) and the alliance then kill-runs me...who is the greifer if same player comes back to do as much possible damage to said alliance? I'm gonna assume both in this instance with the Alliance being the primary fault. But hey, they are many, and have 'better' players anyways. More than one player will cry about it on AT and over- run the 'democracy' of the situation. ( Like true democracy has any place in a war game.)
How about if a player is dumb enough or just plain fluffy enough to use the same country name over and over again after doing something stupid during a set; any previous set using same country name. Is it greifing to get revenge that they are obviously offering up as opportunity, since they are playing a game where basic human nature should be a consideration in skills needed?
You really have to cover this terminology with more than you are giving, as it's used for everything under the sun.
Should a person not have the want to get payback, or even stop in their tracks someone they see as a strong competition against them? Is not patience a virtue, and guerrilla warefare still warefare?
Have not 'greifers' also invested/ wasted their time and efforts? Is your time and effort worth more because you are awesome- sauce?
Do you feel better when you get what you want? I do. Taking away what someone else wants is a form of retaliation... revenge. This game is after all, also a human social experiment.
If I'm in an alliance on the alliance server but play in Primary or Express, knowing other members of my alliance also playing there, and my only collusion is that of just not hitting them, but if also hitting humans outside of bots, if bots, is this untalked about collusion a form of greifing... because of choosing to hit a smaller selection of humans?
Is hitting humans on Any server where there are bots, is this not greifing? I mean, it upsets the person hit, even ruins their game if competing against similar players not getting hit. If you are competing to win out over a specific country only, after you are set back, is it not competing to then set them back in some way? Certainly fees 'greify'...new word!
Greif basically comes from getting hit at all and having to work around it, but multiple hits ruin a set, compared to those not getting hit at all? If this is the case, should not everyone be hit to keep competitive, say, when you see someone very fat and feel the field needs a better margin.
I'm not actually questioning all of thus for myself, but they're are others here that in fact do these things for a reason. You have to figure out their reason...try to politic it even in Express. All part of the game, and helps you get to know the players, even the ass holes.

I'm just watching the Mask Singer and wanted another long post to make you all read. I REALLY DON'T even care. I know I'm changing no minds as to the accepted greifer term... even I get it. I'll write another book later.. commercial is off, and fixing all of my typos is killing my watching time.

Tigress made me do it.


CONFIRMED -- I needed something to read ...
Happy Hunting

Tigress

Relax lah

Member

925

Nov 23rd 2019, 6:29:10

Derrick, ure being outdone here big time by all the intelligent debates. Both in length and in depth
You need to polish your trolls! :p

KoHeartsGPA

Member

21,123

Nov 23rd 2019, 6:47:54

Right?
Mess with me you better kill me, or I'll just take your pride & joy and jack it up
(•_•)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6VRMGTwU4I
-=TSO~DKnights~XI~LaF=-

S.F. Giants 2010, 2012, 2014 World Series Champions, fluff YEAH!

Chevs

Member

1310

Nov 23rd 2019, 17:22:47

I’m with Ugo tbh
SOF Head Of Poop

Drow

Member

1296

Nov 24th 2019, 1:17:53

Originally posted by UgolinoII:
Originally posted by Gerdler:
To skywise:
I encourage you to use the term griefing only for the most obvious cases, and I encourage you to not blow a gasket just because you don't know every hypothetical scenario that it encompasses or doesn't.
Attacking a well established term's existance leads you no-where.


Lol. Thats the point though isn't it. It's all a matter of perspective.

For me griefing only applies when there is an imbalance of skill/effort - this is directly due to a specific game mechanic exploit (that prime is fixing.


Anything else. Well thats just people choosing how they want to play. Be that so called suiciding, or "legitimate" war. Both are probably going to get you killed.

Thats just my opinion though. You might think differently. That is where the "obviousness" test falls over though. Popular opinion is only popular, and the majority of people are stupid ;)

So with pang's new fix in place there is no game mechanic being exploited as such, and so any perceived issue over greifing/suiciding or w/e you want to call it can't be "fixed" in game.

I'm labouring the point now so sorry if I sound like a stuck record: If you want people to play nice (that doesn't mean not hitting/warring btw) don't give them the invisibility cloak. That way lies ruin. It should be familiar. We are already in it.

Wars can still happen, so what that people know who runs whats country, it's no big deal if it's the same for everyone. It might have an effect on target selection - skilled generals will now consider who is playing a country in their decision making process.

On the flip side when netting, you can see who you are up against... I honestly think it makes for a better experience all around because it is breaking down walls and opening up communication.

The problem we have is that everyone is so used to the status quo the idea of changing things will be abhorrent to them.


TBH a good war leader should have a rough idea who is playing what country anyway, from country name selection, playstyle and play times etc. Knowing stuff like that helps, because it means you can attempt to take down wallers when they're unable to wall, OR at an inopportune time for them. It also means you can take out major threat countries first.
Maybe I'm just old though lol

Retired Earth type.

Original Skywise L

Member

517

Nov 24th 2019, 17:58:06

Aren't we All old by now?
I of course, am the 'new' old.
Skywise

KoHeartsGPA

Member

21,123

Nov 24th 2019, 18:32:54

Originally posted by Original Skywise L:
Aren't we All old by now?
I of course, am the 'new' old.


Age doesn't matter anymore since they introduced boner pills, Viva le wood!
Mess with me you better kill me, or I'll just take your pride & joy and jack it up
(•_•)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6VRMGTwU4I
-=TSO~DKnights~XI~LaF=-

S.F. Giants 2010, 2012, 2014 World Series Champions, fluff YEAH!

archaic

Member

6492

Nov 24th 2019, 18:54:44

I hate that several innocent people got dragged into this, but seeing 5 pages of Chevs tears and Requiems rage-quit has brought me an enormous amount of pleasure.

On behalf of Paradigm, MD, and Evolution - lol.
CandyMan: stop doing KR on our originals.

Requiem

Member

5799

Nov 24th 2019, 21:40:43

Archaic you will forever be a crappy player at best :)

You were never a great member of Paradigm. You should stay in your lane.

Original Skywise L

Member

517

Nov 24th 2019, 21:58:22

I am just slightly Better than the average Earther:-p
Skywise

archaic

Member

6492

Nov 24th 2019, 22:55:57

Originally posted by Requiem:
Archaic you will forever be a crappy player at best :)

You were never a great member of Paradigm. You should stay in your lane.


Funny how I was always a head and you were never more than a DL huh? Probably because you were never thinking about anybody but yourself. I probably wasn't all that great of a player, but I never betrayed PDM in the middle of a war. Do us all a favor and stay retired - its the best thing you've ever done.

(Except suiciding, thumbs up on that)
CandyMan: stop doing KR on our originals.

Requiem

Member

5799

Nov 24th 2019, 23:15:09

Sundevil and I had way more sway than you could have ever dreamed of. #triggered

I’m glad you still post and rant on the forums non-stop - the one thing you are kind of good at.

Cya noob

archaic

Member

6492

Nov 24th 2019, 23:57:43

Originally posted by Requiem:
Sundevil and I had way more sway than you could have ever dreamed of. #triggered

I’m glad you still post and rant on the forums non-stop - the one thing you are kind of good at.

Cya noob


All of the tags I was in would take me back Req, you just keep burning bridges bro. Enjoy your latest rage quit retirement. See ya soon.
CandyMan: stop doing KR on our originals.

galleri

Game Moderator
Team & Express
10,906

Nov 25th 2019, 16:41:12

Originally posted by archaic:
Originally posted by Requiem:
Sundevil and I had way more sway than you could have ever dreamed of. #triggered

I’m glad you still post and rant on the forums non-stop - the one thing you are kind of good at.

Cya noob


All of the tags I was in would take me back Req, you just keep burning bridges bro. Enjoy your latest rage quit retirement. See ya soon.

Who won't take back Requiem?



ninong
Member Sep 7th, 2006 3:22
i sure hope this galleri person isn't anoniem on drag *cringes*
Derrick to macdaddy:
I believe I could fluff Scarlett Johansson but that dont mean I actually could.

breeze

Member

1776

Nov 25th 2019, 16:49:55

Originally posted by galleri:
Originally posted by archaic:
Originally posted by Requiem:
Sundevil and I had way more sway than you could have ever dreamed of. #triggered

I’m glad you still post and rant on the forums non-stop - the one thing you are kind of good at.

Cya noob


All of the tags I was in would take me back Req, you just keep burning bridges bro. Enjoy your latest rage quit retirement. See ya soon.

Who won't take back Requiem?


Requiem is always welcome in iMag and to be honest I wish he would stay around.

KoHeartsGPA

Member

21,123

Nov 25th 2019, 16:53:58

Only galleri can carry Requiem and look like a total boss doing it.
Mess with me you better kill me, or I'll just take your pride & joy and jack it up
(•_•)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6VRMGTwU4I
-=TSO~DKnights~XI~LaF=-

S.F. Giants 2010, 2012, 2014 World Series Champions, fluff YEAH!

Requiem

Member

5799

Nov 25th 2019, 19:08:37

Archaic you need to keep my name out of your posts is the bottom line.

Requiem

Member

5799

Nov 25th 2019, 19:12:02

Also to set the record straight on this war I deserted Paradigm.... I left after we were told to go into vacation mode instead of fight back.

Celphi

Member

5619

Nov 27th 2019, 15:21:48

Requiem is a good player. I'm not sure what all this ranting on threads about him are all about, but he's one of the coolest people I've met on here.

Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated.