mazooka would not have mentioned PDM if he did not wish to discuss us and join us!

<3

"How LaF has treated PDM for years now."

You need to recognize that the LaF-PDM relationship has been strained for years, and is a product of numerous issues/wars over history (both recent, medium term, and long term history).

So to claim that LaF just treats PDM badly is to completely ignore the very troubled history and context that has lead to the develoment of the relationship.

Detmer I am correct in saying PDM is hitting like idiots as is proven by their recent double tap on a monsters country.

*checks news*
New member's first grabs in PDM
*not concerned*
Monsters will retal and it will be fine.

i dont mind you guys hijacking my thread =p

bastards.

at this point, i feel the guy who stocked for four days then hit me in conjunction with another large country was designed to weaken my country to the point of farming and a cowardly act of war. i understand it was a calculated risk to gain land. you need to understand that in this case, the risk outweighed the reward.

i am not threatening to suicide so whoever said that can eat my fluff too. im talking getting my land back so my country isnt crippled. if youre to fluffing stupid to see what was done to me was an asshole move then youre an asshole, asshole.

ok, allow me to settle this right here:
I haI am the second country that hit you (milk ocean)
it was in no way coordinated between myself and the other country.
I had been debating hitting you for a while now (didn't know it was you) but didn't want to buy that many jets to do so.

Yesterday I got fed up with the lack of land, I had the cash on hand, so I did it.
After buying the necessary jets I noticed that you were literally just hit by the other LaF country. My first reaction was anger (because I thought I was about to hit a 19k acre country, not a 16k acre one).

So not only was it not coordinated, I was actually pissed that I missed my opportunity to hit you first.

So you think they intentionally weakened your country yet you'll settle for just being not crippled?

I dont think 2 grabs would cripple him anyways. But I'd suggest just retalling. Complaining as an untagged about getting grabbed is often silly anyways. At least its not like the clans who kill countries for fun ;) or like when Sol killed arma a couple sets back

see detmer, a couple years ago i would have just started hitting, aiming for 100k acres. now i thought id air my grief and not just act on impulse. new game, not ruining it for others, creating land..etc.

h4, i dont mind a landgrab, id just retal it. the double tap was to much right after each other. you have got to see how im going to take that.

Right, like if H4's explanation is true then it is coincidence and leniency whatever. When I think someone is systematically trying to weaken me then I take it to them full force.

oh I understand completely why you would not be happy about it.

I just wanted to make sure the record was clear that we didn't coordinate it, it was just a coincidence of timing. If it had not been the fact that I had just blew a billion dollars on jets solely for the purpose of hitting you, I likely wouldn't have hit at all after seeing the first hit was made.

thats your opinion locket.
lll agree to disagree with you.
my opinion is different.

he lost almost 25% of his land in those 2 hits, I'd say that is a significant dent.
That is a lot of lost production

As H4 pointed out 25% is huge. One of the things I dislike about CI is that while you can easily stay big to a point... sort of the best you can hope for is mutually assured destruction if someone comes after you.

exactly, at this point i have to make a decision. h4, will it cost more to kill me, as im hitting in the next 5 minutes or helping me make this right?

you're retalling in the next 5 minutes.. or..?

I think he is implying he is going beserk on LaF in 5 minutes.

Make right how?

2011-02-26 05:02:03 PS ultrablueromulan (#604) xSKUNKx Tarnavasaurous Rex (#388) 5451A (2048A)

detmer=douchey mcdoucherson

Detmer = douche

haha, sorry LT, just fluffing with you =) you had replied by the time I even fixed the date on my fake. <3

I almost had a heart attack. lol.

not gonna hit you lt =p

lol that was good though detmer

an untagged country was always going to be hit its just a question of when

best case you would get hit by someone that jumped a bit earlier than you and is using you for reselling land

do you have a right not to be hit? or a right not be hit a certain amount?

we had at least one guy trying to do the play untagged thing this set and got fed up because he got hit too much and couldnt keep up

we had a guy do it two sets ago get hit a lot but keep going then get killed after we ceasefired with someone by them because they didnt like that he had pacts with us during some of them time we were at war

people playing untagged are almost certain to feel they get screwed at some point, many people playing tagged are too

to maintain the defence levels not to be topfed by anyone the whole set i think is unrealistic particularly as an indy where expenses will hurt you a lot when mil prices drop

anyway what could we do to fix this? were happy not to RoR, we can dnh you for longer than we normally do say 72 hours perhaps but we cant exactly stop everyone else hitting you in that time

ive been grabbed before and had to blow stock, sometimes let it go, sometimes let someone else retal, things happen, if they didnt id be playing this on spreadsheets only

as to pdm vs laf there are so many issues

we have differing:
ror policies, time, maybe number of hits
48 v 72 hour retal window probably
probably differing l:l thresholds
differance on who can do l:l
differing on missile retals being acceptable
differing habits on saying 'this is in response to that' type things

and im probably missing some

then when you have us not talking to eachother much, not discussing every escalation of course it escalates

cool story bro. i usually dont try for peace. what dont you get about that. new game and fluff. you can treat people how you like but dont be surprised when people treat you however they want in return.

aw man you got my hopes up...LT is getting too fat, he might actually beat me this set =P

ok, nothing to see here.

Eh mazooka, I didnt see the amount of land taken. My bad. It is a big amount :P I like seeing the untagged countries do well like yours. But considering the amount of times some tagged countries have been hit i'd say you have been pretty lucky so far :P not all luck obviously

highrock are you 153?

its obvious which country is highrock's =) if you can't see it then you are blind locket...

I can't follow, are you arguing who can L:L each other better?

Detmer, this post of yours earlier in the thread is a bizarre take on human behavior:

"We never contact our allies about pacting"

If you do not communicate as a matter of policy, it is YOUR fault that you are where you are. Yes, it's easy for you to make assumptions about someone else (or projections) .. but that does not mean they share any of your beliefs!!!

You can communicate with people you don't agree with. But simply not communicating at all is a losing strategy.

Do you call your friends every week to make sure they are still friends? It is not weird at all. This policy works with everyone who is actually our friends soo...

You are making assumptions, Detmer. The analogy is not friendship, the analogy is business communication.

Ummm... in Paradigm we consider this to be a game that we play with friends... I am sorry that this is a job for you.

I consider some people in PDM to be friends, but in general, I'd say that LaF and PDM are not friends. The people who you dislike that also play Earth Empires and interact with you, what do you consider them?

ensula: unless you guys have gone back to a 72 hour window, we are on the same retal window.

ror's and overretals could be on different windows though

is locket a laf fr?

no

locket to LaF is like dagga to SOL :P

Detmer can correct me if I'm wrong here, but I think what he means is being mistaken.

Our last two sets where we were pacted to Laf were in the interest of friendship, or at least starting to repair our very hostile history.

When our two countries landgrabbed Laf earlier this set Laf was on DNH, we didn't know if Laf had us on DNH and it wasn't that important. Laf took the retals and profited from it. We had no quarrels with that, as we believed we were in the wrong for those two countries breaking the DNH with Laf that we imposed on our end.

Laf took those two landgrabs as evidence that we were open for landgrabbing. This wouldn't have been a problem, we would have taken you guys off DNH and treated you like LCN,ICN,Sanc, and any other non-pacted, non-hostile alliance. Basically landtrading in the normal LG ---> Retal way.

We don't contact ICN,LCN,Sanct and the rest and ask them if it would be ok to have a normal non-pacted landgrab ---> Retal relationship with them. No massive farming, just normal landgrabbing is a given between two non-hostile non-pacted alliances.

This is where Laf is different. When our countries did those two grabs on you and you retalled you decided we were open for grabbing. That's fine, but you went ahead and took 17 hits in 24 hours on PDM. That is not the landgrabbing action of a friendly un-pacted alliance.

I suppose maybe it was our error to assume that after the last two pacted sets the Laf:PDM relations had been repaired enough that we could treat each other with respect in terms of landgrabbing in the event that we go unpacted :/


It's regularly noted by Laf members that PDM started it with those two landgrabs, and you are correct. Laf retalled them and opened us up for landgrabbing (Which is ok). However, I still haven't seen an explanation as to why LAF took those 17 hits in 24 hours right after we became open for landgrabbing. Why mass farm us from the word go?

Those 17 hits? by 8 countries according to the news.

that's about 2 hits each. Not exactly farming, nor coordinated since the times are so spread out.

http://www.eestats.com/...ide[]=Paradigm&page=1

the first nuke was already launched within 24 hours after that, it doesn't look like there was much FR work at all.

but what do I know, I'm not in either alliance.

not to mention PDM repeatedly topfeeding LaF's all explorers as part of their method of retaliation after.

PDM has 34 countries, to do 17 retals, I miss the days when I was in a 10man alliance and had to do 20 retals a day...

Examine a bit farther there.

#519 5-taps within 25 hours
#388 4-taps within 24 hours
#443 4-taps within 24 hours
#598 2-taps within 26 hours
4 counries single landgrab
2 countries retal PDM's 2 landgrabs

In the same timeframe there are

2 - PDM landgrabs (Initial hits between PDM & Laf)
2 - PDM retals - single hit retals

Those are the first 25 landgrabs between PDM and Laf all set

That my friend is not respectable landgrabbing, and unfortunately shows us the very very low level of respect Laf holds for PDM even after our 2 sets of pacting each other in the interest of a better future.

double post

Then what is respectable land grabbing?

as the old saying goes, Respect isn't given, it's fluffing earned.