OK ... no on missile market -- been there ....

And no on other funny stuff as this is about buffing the EM enough that it isn't a dissapointment

Add 1+% loss on current technology
Add damage to population as per successful GS, also add damage to cash, bushels and oil, but destroyed, not taken
Add damage to buildings as per successful AB
Make sure damage to spies is proportional to other mil units.
Change readiness reduction form 2% of currentt to 3% flat

In our imagination, change it from a single missile to a full salvo with consequent broad spectrum damage

Any comments?

How about an in-game cruise missile coversion option, like trading oil for pm units?

Something like 2 cruise missiles, plus some amount of cash, bushels and oil to get a cm with more ems and more other resources to get a nuke ...

This doesn't address the basic missile disparity, but it would make the green lettering more truthful when you get an em

Gosh ... do i have false memories of melting an opponent's nw like an icecube under a blowtorch by demoing them down sub 25% and then attacking them successfully as if their def was indeed at 25% and hence their casualties were runniing at roughly 4x my own (actually much worse because of my med tech and weapons) ... really, i have those memories from swirve days, but they could be false or twisted up with some other game from 20 years ago ...

Regardless, the 70% minimum effective readiness floor is news to me and i thank you both for setting me straight.

Given that, a 3% flat readiness reduction doesn"t seem crazy as it is mostly about forcing the victum to take more turns to get back into the game - and if you load the vic up with a crippled economy and some bioTs, then you could set a country back a few steps ...

I still want cruise missiles to damage a tiny bit of everything ... but if not everything, at least add spy damage as per the other mil units

Uh ... i am pretty sure that within the last 2 years i've used demoralize ops to drive a target's readiness below 50% and everything worked as expected ....

Also, when you switch govs, you are reduced to 50% readiness, not 70% ...

So if there is a floor today, i'm pretty sure it is well below 50% - i think there is/was a floor, but something more like 10%

... in the past, you would use demoralize ops to push it down well below 50% and then pile on the cruise missiles.

I am in sympathy with sinistril et al ... cruise missiles are always the dissappointing missile ...

But i think their most interesting attriute is the decrease to the target's readiness on a hit ... on solo servers this won't come to much, but i seem to remember from swirve days that this could be devastating because the 1% decrease to readiness wasn't capped, so a coordinated barrage could effectively reduce the target's defence to near zero and all that implies ... don't know if it still works that way today ...

But buffing this aspect i think could become destabalizing, even with hard limits on far you could push it

Another long debated possibility is supporting targeted strikes on any of the target's attributes, i.e. damage against only tanks, only bushels, only oil, only civillians, only cash, only readiiness, only indie buildings, only weapons tech, only spies and so forth ... at least, this would make cruise missiles more fun to play, but getting the balance correct seems a challenge ... and new interfaces as well. I don't remember this getting past the fun to talk about stage, but it is fun to talk about.

Practically, i'd like to simply add more attributes of damage to the cruise missile, but in small amounts proportional to their current mil unit damage, damage at least to buildings, civilians, cash, bushels and oil.

A wild and spectacular upgrade, would be the destruction of one of the target's turns on each successful hit - this is too much, but also fun to talk about.

*Bonus!*

Wow! Nice idea.

But i think pulling that off in a sequence of 8 sets is probably not realistic, what with the real world and all ... certainly nott for me.

On the other hand, we could make the challenge last until the end of the year so we had time to get one score in on each gov type, and then work to improve until end of 2018. If more than 1 player meets the 8 diff gov top ten finish requiement, final ranking is by combined nw on your best top 10 finish for each gov.

And you mean to pick a gov from turn 1 and no gov change allowed during set? I like it.

And verifiable by eestats.

Thinking about it, starting at 100 acres with less than 100 viable targets might be too strict to be fun.

Variation 1 - no explore, double tap across set
Variation 2 - no explore, single tap per 24 hours.

I like variation 1 - it adds the dimiension of using the 2nd tap or saving the 2nd tap for after the target matures

How about a "no explore - single tap" challenge? Would make the openiing extra tricky and kinda more important as well as complicate the middle game by restricting the field of targets.. But the later part of the set might be much the same. So it might still be possible to be competitive in the set. It would be playing with a special handicap like the 0CS challenge,

It would be glorious to win the set while playiing in such a challenge.

And i think it reasonably open to verification by eestats.

I had the cash to break 10mnw, but only pricy mil units at end of set ... bhah ... classic mistakes ....

Finished : 28 0cs ZERO ZERO (#43) 6400 $9,083,743 DG

Anyway, would be happy to try again in a month or two ... much learned ... nice diversion ...

Cheers!

(~¿~)

I think the 0CS Challenge is worthwile. This set and these threads are a reference. If it were held 4 times a year, or even once a month, i think it would draw interest. Anyone can try 0CS experiments any set, preping for the monthly challenge.

Good on you if you break 20mnw

:)

Hoping not to jinx myself here, but it does appear that i will break 5mnw ... 10 mnw looks far, but maybe ... who can say?

But if you are certain of 10mnw and shooting at 15mnw+, then i tip my hat to you

:)

I opened with theo for the 7bpt and the 50% pop bonus = more people = more cash per turn

Switched to commie to try to get somwhere by grabbiing and the 35% indie bonus good for mil units and spies

Got to a full rainbow 5k country ...what to do about that? Nothing i could think of ...

Switched to demo to play the markets and try to get lucky ... my piles of turns are mostly spent teching at about 300 tpt -- gotta love that ...

I use my spy ops mostly to steal ... i've got a substantial database of saved spy ops, so my thieving is modestly organized

But i still don't know how i'm doing. LOL!!

But am happy i gave this a try

:D

Take care on usong names .. there are players who impersonate bots and then drop the bomb on an aggressor ... express gdi is different from other servers - gdi differences between servers is always a source of confusion ... on express, belonging to gdi protects you from most war-type responses, but hit a target twice, and your gdi iprotection ends for responses from that player ... then you get the missiles and such ... hit a guy exactly once, and they can only ss and ps you back ...

If you spy a bot, they will always be 0(0) turns ... so if they have the name, been all-x so far and have 0(0) turns when you spy, i'd say 99+% they are a bot ...

If they've been grabbed all set and still look peaceful, even more likely it is a bot.

Btw: for all servers except tourney, i reccomend eestats.com as a solid companion

Good luck!

Don't do it ungolino

Take a break

The mood will pass

;)

Welcome back!

There are many large and small differences since the swirve days, but the general shape and spirit remain much the same

A key difference is the addition of bots to most servers. The bots are automated artificial players that are non-agressive and serve as targets. The player community is sub 1000 these days -- express typically has around 50 human players.

Just stumble through a few sets of express and 75% will come back to you and the new sruff will get incorporated.

Cheers!

Sounds like gerdler is on a plan for 18m ...

My plan will also depend on markets and luck ... but atm, i don't see myself getting to double digits

... but things change ... and i've already been enjoying this as a first rate puzzle

Of course, if there are enough bitter players about, we might be lucky to make 5m ....

Good luck to all and thanks to everyone for getting this challenge started.

:D

Fwiw, i am stumblng forward ...

... turns out this is a challenge on many fronts ...

Not least of which, i have no idea how well or poorly i'm doing ... except that i seem to be doing rather better than most of the bots i've hit ... were the bots designed to be such poor players and easy targets? Seems like any monkey could write a better developmental opening - no offense intended to the bot coders as i have zero idea what tools are available ...

I am playing opportunistically, but do have a general sorta plan that informs my choices

Anyone care to comment?

Anyone want to guess at the fiinal winning nw?


Cheers!

:D

You should give it a shot - gerdler can probably embarass me too - but in my opinion, to play a novel challenge against the best is an opportunity not to be missed.

Hope you change your mind.

:)

THANKS beerdrinker!! If i am to be a thief, i will be a gdi thief and plan get my tech in some more traditional way.

Cheers!
:D

But you said above that i can steal money and bushels? Is tech different?

Or did you mean that if i was not gdi, i could steal from bots without consequence?

But i think the consquence is that i could not join gdi ...

So this is the root of my question - can i ever steal anything from a bot and ever be in gdi?

I apologize if i seem dim whitted.

Thanks beerdrinker ... er, having one myself atm :)

*sips cool ipa*

I think you are correct on the final decision aspect of express gdi, at least i kinda remember it that way ...

But i also seem to remember that me being in gdi prevented me from stealing tech ... but maybe i am wrong ... i haven't played express except as a test bench in awhile.

I reckon i'll get to test it soon enough.

;)

Hehe, "rise of the bots?"

Let me know when there is a work bench and a robust "bot-code" interpreter ready, and we'll craft up some seriously smart bots that make aggressive retals ... wink wink

But with respect to express gdi, the short game and length of peaceful waiting seems to me to make flipping gdi status problematic ... more of an in or out choice i think. And i think being in gdi seems to forbid full scale plunder of a bot as there is no declare war option. And playing without gdi seems to be like waving a red flag in an arena full of bulls.

Cheers!

I think that implies that you will never be able to steal from peaceful bots if you join gdi ... and that if you do steal, then you can never join gdi ...

Have i got that right?

There is a challenge coming up on express and i don't play enough to know the fine points

Thanks!

Can someone tell me how long i have to wait before declaring peace after declaring war? On express, that is ...

thanks

I'm playing in the open

#43 0cs ZERO ZERO

Cool

I will get in

:D

Ahh ... i see the older thread ... not "officer's candidate school", but "zero CS" challenge ...

How many are in?

Any special name convention?

:D

OCS?

Are we having a contest?

I might throw my hat in if isomeone would give me a clue ...

Thanks!

Points showed up 24 minutes after the message

An explanation would be nice.

But i reckon it is not a bug.

Thanks

I got the message about being awarded points, but no points

I'm pretty certain because i still have points that are good for 2 days, but none at 6 days

Anyone else? Any recommendations?

Thanks

I concur with gerdler above... but as i feel that suiciders generally must lead impovished internal lives, and since i suppose leaving the game for a short spell just to spite their would be killers represents something of an innovation - i ask, why take this little thing from them? Logically, it makes no sense to me, but out of a sense of compassion, i can see leaving this wrinkle alone until it becomes a practical problem

*Bonus*

Indeed

:)

... his handle is "Marshal" ... perhaps it's a clue?

stage 1 objectives complete! stage 2 underway. progress continues ...

yes, they do

objective 1 complete! the mission contnues ...

i have the greatest enthusiasm for the mission, despite disappointments and delays, progress continues, albiet in fitful dribbles ...

mostly, get more tanks, but

weapons tech boosts your tanks when defending against AB - attacker must use more tanks, thus they use more oil and they suffermore tank casulties

if it is to be a long running exchange toward mutually assured parking lots, high medical tech will help tip the balance in your favor

more cs will allow you take cs losses from the ABs and still rebuild at an effective rate - otherwise you can become trapped till end of set with no income because you have few buildings and even if you have cash, unable to rebuild because you don't have enough turns at your tiny build rate to rebuild before your opponent comes round to blast you again

fwiw, i've also wanted this functionality from time to time

good luck on the cutting and pasting - my fear is that i'd slip up and miss a few, so my data set would be corrupt, so using it to make decisions would be foggy at best

the cheaper way to get this data is for the developers to insert the buy messages we get on screen into the history stream, and get a person or group to build a script set to strip out the data from the history and feed it to a spread sheet or other tool for analysis

if it were available, i'd use it

*bonus*

thanks! nice to know and simple:

spending 4 barrels of oil per acre of land generating units on the private market

produces the same number of units that the private market generates each game turn

i think looking at it this way will make some destocks much easier to estimate

cheers!

:)

*bonus*

i think spies are an often neglected facet of the game. properly employed, they can be devastating and the only defense is to have a good spal yourself. xinja is correct, as your spal approaches that of your opponent who is throwing destructive spy ops, their chance of failure increases, and failure implies loss of spies. also, their is a diminishing returns aspect to throwing spy ops ... failures naturally increase with use. replinishng spy losses takes indies and turns. i've been in spy wars where the original aggressor lost the upperhand by over using their spies.

so yeah, get some spies, and you too can be insanely overpowered to the next spy noob

:)

objective 6 complete ... mission objectives approximately half completed ... progress continues!

i think how far off depends on the specific boundry, many are more than one ... but the tutorial message that says "explore rate will drop when we reach xxxx acres" reveals the proper boundries - that is, the message changes based on government type

i like the idea!

but i am concerned about the variability in set length to get to a solo survivor

increasing the turn rate might also be a bit skewy, but like in a poker tournament where the blind bets are raised at an accelerating rate, there needs to be a mechanism to drive the set to conclusion ...

unless you just accept a traditional end of set, and let glory be found in surviving to the end

i think the idea of splitting up a killed country's resources to the killers (100% to the kill shot, or propotionately by some formula to all participants in the kill) will be enough to drive survivorship to single digits if starts of any kind are banned in the last 48 hrs

i would give it a try

thumbs up!

progress continues on objective 4 - i have the greatest enthusiasm for my mission