I'm assuming you're referring to the Phillies. They are a team I still find a threat, but they've done nothing this year to show they're the "best team."

It's certainly a valid argument for any of the 3 (and maybe add in the Reds) that we've been discussing, but at the current time, you can't really argue the Phillies.

Like I said in the earlier threads to ford, I hope the Braves stay ahead of the Phillies, because the Phillies seem like the prototypical scary playoff series. They've got a pitching staff that could easily rival San Diego or St. Louis in 5 or 7 game series, and a lineup that, if it clicks, is probably the best in the NL.

However, you don't get any trophies for being the best team on paper, and the Phillies are quite a few games behind the Braves and the Wild Card lead.

1,931 posts.... yeah, I don't think I'm catch that.

Apparently unless I'm sitting in a hotel room in Cleveland, bored out of my mind because the hotel room cable sucks, I don't spam enough. :/

Despy: Not sure exactly where you're getting your info, but when I looked at mlb.com at most of the hitting stats, St. Louis finishes 1st out of the 3 teams we're discussing. In batting average (a practically worthless stat for judging a team's offensive potential) they're both at .262 for the season. In OPS, they're virtually the same as well, but St. Louis has a very slight edge over Atlanta, and they're both ahead of San Diego.

For pitching, San Diego and St. Louis are neck and neck in the ERA race and have a significant lead over 4th place Atlanta (3.27, 3.29, 3.66 respectively).

So St. Louis is a (very) slightly better hitting team than Atlanta, and a much better pitching team, whereas San Diego has actually a pretty poor offense (14th in OPS), but is (very) slightly ahead of St. Louis in offense.

San Diego is a better defensive team, but overall, there's a reason why pitching and offensive numbers are what is talked about during free agency. There's a reason why players like Derek Jeter and Manny Ramirez get paid monstrous amounts of money, and it's because what they do with the bat overshadows their defense. There certainly can be times when bad defense can catch up to you, but overall, the difference between average defense and great defense is a lot smaller than between average offense and great offense.

Anything can certainly happen in the small sample size of the post-season, but overall, I'll take my chances with a playoff rotation of Wainwright, Carpenter and Garcia and a lineup that includes Pujols, Holliday and Rasmus over any of the other lineups/rotations we're discussing.

And oh yeah, what happened in 1999 doesn't matter to this year. The only things that are the same about these teams are two of the three managers. If you want to look at last 3 years, that might be more meaningful, since there would be significant parts of the rosters that would be the same, but 1999-current is a good ole' arbitrary baseball time period.

You might as well tell me that Atlanta is going to win the World Series because on Tuesday night road games, they're undefeated.

I've got two countries I intend to be oilers that would really prefer you guys fight again this set, but I do remember some really good netting sets in particular by NBK back in the old FFA.

It would be interesting to see what would happen in this server if you guys actually didn't war for a set.

Could be a weird reset for the market though, with the two biggest war clans playing nice with each other.

ICey, You are my fire. The one desire. Believe when I say, that I want it that way.

Like I said in DM's thread, play the game you want to play it.

If you don't want to play the game like llaar, then you should make beating your own personal records your priority.

If you want to compete for the #1 spot, then you need to find whatever advantage you can. If that's doing a massive buyout, do a massive buyout. If it's landtrading/self-farming between several countries, then do that.

I don't necessarily like the way llaar accomplished his #1 country, but as far as I know, he did nothing against the rules, so what right do I really have to criticize?

Only thing I can criticize him for is not giving us all the pleasure of at least using his #2 and #3 countries to nuke each other like Makinso said :P

lol

Note to self: To beat kemo in any argument, just write a LOT.

if he's got some type of war strat that's as effective as his netting strat, then I'm all the more glad we're pacted to LaE :P

eh, I'm a big fan of the idea that you should play the game you want to play it (assuming it's within the rules, of course).

If you want to war--war.

If you want to try to compete for the #1 spot--find what strategy is going to work the best and use it and do everything in your power to avoid suiciders and play that strategy well.

If you're against land-trading/self-farming, play each country to the best of your abilities, and consider it a competition against yourself.


I personally don't think llaar's strategy is anything all that impressive, but the outcome was. Before I get attacked for that, what I mean is, had I come up with the idea and attempted to have done what llaar did, I believe I could have finished in the top 5 or at least top 10 myself. Could I have done what llaar did? Probably not. However, instead of whining about it, I'm just gonna keep playing the game I want to play it.

It's more fun for me to play what I consider to be a more traditional strategy and compete against my personal bests. Crying about what llaar did will neither stop him, nor benefit anyone.

Heck, if nothing else, the amusing thing about llaar's strategy this last set is it's far more transparent than any other attempt to create a monster country. When someone does a buyout, the casual player can't watch how it happened, and learn step-by-step just by watching the news. Same with an FA-chain (even though it's more obvious, you still can't see the evidence of it just by watching the news).

With llaar's strategy, if you're curious how he did it, all you have to do is look up the news and you've got the vast majority of the strategy.

So if you want to try to finish #1, check his news and replicate. If not, why cry about it? It's just not productive.

And that's fine.

But I'm a writer. I don't get constrained by character limits. I also don't write for others, but for myself. I wasn't writing those posts because I was really thinking I'd change your mind. I was writing them because I love to write, and sports is one of the easier and more fun things to write about.

And while this probably seems snippy, it's not meant to be. But if he wants to talk about his team, he should do it and he shouldn't be deterred just because I wrote a couple long posts.

Don't want to read it?

Don't read it.

lol

Then I look forward to a post in the future if you get time. :)

You're definitely right about the Braves fans finally having a season to really cheer for again though. And it's awesome that it's happening during this last season for Cox. He deserves to go out a winner.

So many things are making me laugh, including that you have basically 350 acres build, the fact that 2M tech points still has you at 100%.

ford: I didn't think I'd convince you. I just like arguing sports. :)

And those stats usually are a much better indicator of what will happen over a full season. If your Braves are still ahead of the Cardinals at the end of the season, I'll certainly concede that the Braves are better.

And if you're going to play the "Wait 'till Heyward gets back," I'll respond with "Wait 'till Brad Penny, Kyle Lohse and David Freese get back."

Again, let's go to my loser-ish stats! :)

Judging by WAR (Wins Above Replacement) a great stat that accounts for both offense and defense, Jason Heyward is the best player of that list of players, being valued at 2.2 wins above replacement so far this season, which for a rookie, is pretty damn good.

However, the Cardinals with those three players have taken a far bigger hit total, as Freese is worth 1.4 WAR so far, Penny 1.1 and Lohse 0.8, totalling 3.3 wins.

So if you want to play the card that the Braves will be even better in the future because Heyward will be back, the Cardinals will be better because presumably at least 2 of those 3 players will come back sometime this season.

Furthermore, the Cardinals are starting to play to their potential. They were underperforming big time in the first half, mostly because of the performances of the two big bats (Pujols and Holliday). However, Holliday has always been a second half player, and in approximately the last month (since June 18) he's clubbed 12 home runs, as opposed to the 6 he had the rest of the season.

Also, with the offense clicking a little more due to the contributions of Holliday, rookie Jon Jay, and others who have picked it up, the Cardinals have not lost since the All-Star break, playing two of the scarier NL teams in LA and Philly.

And oh yeah, let's look head-to-head, as you alluded to.

In head-to-head matchups, the Cardinals are 4-0 against the Braves, outscoring them 25-11 in that series. And again, I know the Braves didn't truly get hot until later than that, but the Cardinals didn't get hot until now.

Lastly, to reiterate what I brought up in the first set of posts, I'll take the starpower of St. Louis in a 5 or 7 game series over Atlanta any day of the week.

St. Louis has 2 guys with a .900 OPS or better in Holliday and Pujols, a third guy with an OPS just under .900 in Rasmus, and the #2 and #3 guys in the league in ERA, and oh yeah, neither one of those guys is Chris Carpenter either (who comes in at #10).

Atlanta has one pitcher in the top ten (Hudson #8), and no one on offense that can match the production of any one of St. Louis's top THREE hitters.

And oh yeah, somehow I forgot our other middle of the lineup guy, Ryan Ludwick, who is also hurt and should be returning sometime soon (and he's a 2.4 WAR player, actually better than your prized rookie outfielder Heyward).

I hope neither of these teams fizzle out and we get an NLCS between the two ford. It'd be fun to watch. :)

Ok, so the Braves are a very solid team, but despite their league-leading record of 55-38, they're not the best.

So who is?

The St. Louis Cardinals (and homer-alert, this is my favorite team).

2nd best run differential in the NL (+82)

They finish just slightly ahead of the Braves in virtually every pitching statistic that attempts to measure overall pitching performance.

They finish equal to or better than the Braves in every offensive category.

They have 3 season-long regulars with a better OPS than that of the Braves' BEST offensive player (Pujols, Holliday, Rasmus post OPS's of .988, .925, and .889 respectively).

And furthermore, the Cardinals actually have UNDERPERFORMING players holding down their offense, like Brendan Ryan at SS and Skip Schumaker at 2B.

Now typically the last part isn't really a noteworthy thing to mention, as you could easily make the case 8 guys each with an .800 OPS might be better than 8 guys with varying OPS's that average out to .800, since you can't pitch around the first lineup.... HOWEVER! If the Cardinals get back injured pieces like David Freese at 3B (allowing IF Felipe Lopez to play either 2B or SS) or acquire a middle infielder via trade, they can drastically improve their offense by eliminating a black hole. The Braves can't upgrade a bunch of .750-.850 OPS guys to better their offense the way the Cardinals can.

I'd also contend that the Cardinals have a more intimidating pitching staff, with Wainwright being a Cy Young contender again after finishing 3rd last year, Carpenter being a very very good pitcher again after finishing 2nd last year, and Jaime Garcia putting up a performance that might put him in the conversation against Atlanta's Heyward for RoY honors.

And that's without Brad Penny, who is spending his annual time on the DL early in the season. If he can come back and pitch like he did early in the season (3.23 ERA, 3.44 FIP).

So yeah, I'm gonna say the Cardinals!

However, I was shocked to see just how solid the Braves are this year, and I am rooting for them to stay ahead of the Phillies both for sentimental reasons of it being Bobby Cox's last year and because I'm far more frightened of the Phillies than the Braves in a post-season series.

mrford: When I first saw your post, I was thinking I'd be ripping apart every single aspect of what you said, as I assumed my baseball knowledge was up to the same level it usually is at this point.

However, as I look more, I am impressed with the stats of the Braves. I'm still going to argue why I disagree that they're the best team in the NL though.

They do currently have the best record in the NL, but their other stats tell the story of a very good team, but not the best team.

For instance, one key stat that almost always catches up to teams over the course of 162 games is run-differential. You can catch good breaks, get clutch hits, and generally get lucky for awhile, and in fact, some teams go the whole season, but most don't. At +69 on the season, the Braves have a good run differential, and they are the best in the NL East. However, they are only 4th in the NL, behind San Diego (+85), St. Louis (+82) and San Francisco (+72).

So overall, this is a key stat where they are 4th of 16 NL teams. Good enough for top 25%, but certainly not the best.

Next, let's look at Pitching. I'm going to use two stats that are excellent for giving a far better indication of how a pitching staff is doing than either of the two tradition stats (W/L record and ERA).

First, let's look at FIP, which is designed to grade pitching based on things the pitcher actually has control over (for a far more in-depth discussion on FIP, there's a link at the end). The Braves are 6th in FIP in the NL, although admittedly, there is a top-tier of teams that probably includes them, as there is a pack of really good pitching teams at the top, then it falls quickly after that.

Walks + Hits per Inning Pitched (WHIP) is the other I'd like to look at, where the Braves, at 1.29 are listed as 3rd in the league behind pitching powerhouse San Diego and the St. Louis Cardinals.

Even if you go with basic stat of ERA, the Braves are again very good, but overshadowed by these two teams, as the Braves are 4th in ERA.

For Hitting, the Braves are a slightly above average team any way you look at it. Whether I looked at OPS, wRAA, wOBA, or about any other sabermetric stat, they come in around 6th place. For ISO (a power stat), they're well below average, being only 11th in the NL.

If you go down their lineup, there's no standout big bat that will scare a pitcher either. Their best OPS guy is Prado at .852, which is certainly good, but not anything spectacular.

I'll also add that I feel that just from the point of view of being a fan of another team, I don't fear the Braves like a fear other teams in that division, so I certainly hope the Braves keep playing well enough and the Phillies keep playing poorly enough that the Braves win that division, as it's currently a slim chance the WC will come from the East.

Having said all that, this post is getting kinda long, so I'll start a new one to tell you who IS the team to beat in the NL. :)

Link for FIP Description: http://www.fangraphs.com/...values-explained-part-two

ORKIN: Thanks for clarifying on the Roosevelt thing. :)

On abortion, I'm continually becoming more and more "pro-life" to use the term we all despise. However, I think it's one of those things that must have exceptions, and that change back towards a more pro-life agenda must be step-by-step.

That's probably the one issue where I most have trouble standing up for either side, as I find the correct moral choice in special cases even to be a really gray area--for instance, if you have a case of rape or incest, and a girl becomes pregnant, which is more morally problematic--forcing this girl to carry a child for 9 months and go through the trauma of delivery, something that should be a joyous occasion, when it's really just a constant reminder of the terrible crime that was perpetrated upon her? Or is it better to kill this innocent life (if you're of the belief that life begins at conception)?

It seems like Evil Choice A vs. Evil Choice B.

Because of that, I usually abstain from any type of discussion on abortion, but since this one is pretty civil so far, here I am, getting involved. :P

I'm gonna guess he just noticed it and didn't care enough to actually leave this thread to post his exuberance on the ignore user button.

ORKIN: I'm intrigued by a couple statements there...

"I think the Obama health care bill is unconstitutional. As far as conservative Presidents my views likely most closely resemble Teddy Roosevelt."

These two being beside each other confuse me, so I'm going to point out why and then let you respond.

The health care law is certainly a big step towards increased government involvement and increased government regulation. Many of Roosevelt's ideas were for increased government and increased regulation, and in fact, when he later ran against both Taft and Wilson in 1912, it was under his own Progressive "Bullmoose" Party, which advocated for increased government regulation, most notably in the financial sector.

Of course, in modern terms, this idea of increased regulation in the financial sector sounds more like a liberal or Democratic ideal than a Republican ideal. So in this way, to consider yourself a Conservative or Republican who most closely associates his attitudes with the Presidency of Teddy Roosevelt just seems contradictory. I look forward to hearing your thoughts.

Thunder, you can come back home to PANLV too then ;)

Nah. Wasn't gregg. It was Red Dragon manipulating the market again :(

He took all those oil profits and decided to take control of the food market too.....

eh, I'm kind of on the side of thinking there might be too many servers already, so the idea of making a 7th server to play on seems like they're risking spreading the game too thin.

Mars: Are you also a cunning linguist?

I'm a H.S. teacher. English/Language Arts, so every time you completely butcher the English language with your grammar, I'm sitting here judging you.

If you were originally in Pandora, why don't you come BACK to Pandora? :)

Is it possible to agree with both sides here?

My attitude is that I don't find it terribly impressive, so I don't really see why congratulations are in order. At the same time, if that's how llaar wants to play the game and it's possible for him to win that way, why should he stop? As the snake said, if being #1 is important to you, check llaar's news--it's a blueprint for how to compete for that #1 spot.

Of the two suggestions Blake has, I will say I'm more ok with this one. I don't mind the idea of a higher limit, I just wouldn't vote for it because 9 months out of the year, I'm too busy to personally utilize it.

Heck, I wouldn't even be against a truly unlimited server, so long as the admins were able to prevent anyone from running bots on the server.

I'm in that "I'm not for it, but I'm not really against it" spot for this particular suggestion.

Hey Dragon, contact me!

Titanium: Don't get carried away. Check out the post where bsnake declares war on him. The old rrlfan seems to be back in that thread.

on a fairly amusing note, the ad bar I had when I was posting that last post was for Summer's Eve. Gotta love when they attempt to target the ads based on keywords.

Class and integrity are two things that show through in every activity, Donny.

It's one thing to say this is just a game, so why bother putting full effort into it, if it's not fun. But if you're willing to cheat here or to act like a classless fool who resorts to name-calling whenever you don't get your way, these are the types of character traits that I don't see being just in the game. My guess is these are traits you carry over into your daily life, too.

I watched a random 20 second sampling.

Kick failed. Too many people think saying random dumb things is funny now.

yeah. But I don't actually show anything in those pictures. They're just provocative, not actually pornographic.

Now the fetish part.... I'll grant you that.

Someone hacked the server because they wanted to try to get the sexy pictures of myself I posted on the PANLV website!

I like the current system. More bang for your buck, as Despy's numbers show.

Ivan: The reason people made bots is because they were too lazy to play the 300+ illegal countries they had, not because they were too lazy to play their 15.

Mehul did a lousy job of enforcing the rules, generally doing about one sweep a reset. If you survived the one sweep, you were probably good to cheat as much as you wanted the rest of the time.

If I lived in China, I'd do nothing BUT overthrow my communist government. :/

Over and over and over again. My country would probably die the oh-so-rare PCI death.

Thunder: You don't think Cleveland has done everything they could to surround LeBron with talent?

The last two years, they've won 61 and 66 games. They've tried bringing in a variety of players from Wally Szczerbiak (sp?) to Shaq. They've drafted some useful players, most notably Varajao, and they even tried to get Bosh to Cleveland, but were stifled by Toronto not being willing to do a sign-and-trade.

LeBron certainly had the right to do what he wanted to, but I disagree with you on the idea that they didn't make real attempts to get better.

Let me second what everyone else has said that this is a great tab.

Missiles would be the thing I'd like to see added. Sometimes I know I have a few chems in one of my countries, and being able to just check the tab instead of go through each country would be awesome.

Also, azmodii: Oil is available under the economic tab, so it actually is possible to see that without logging into each country

It occurs to me that if we're going to have a debate on who has no life and it's between a guy who posts a lot in a fun manner or a guy who seems to get really worked up about every single thing and who can't take criticism when he posts something that he had no factual basis for, we're having the wrong discussion.

Donny, I could honestly care less about you, but if you're going to make accusations with no basis and then cry about it and get confrontational when people call you out on it, then perhaps you should point the blame at yourself for speaking out of your ass instead of pointing it at Twiz or anyone else who has called you out.

It's called class; I suggest you find some.

Fully agree with many of the previous posters. 60-days is fine for now, especially if we're trying to grow the player base. And also, as malykii said, if a war happens and I'm netting, it's an even longer period that I have to wait to get back into things.

As it is, I'm dying for a new set to get a fresh start.

I think I'm with the majority here when I say I'd be against it.

When I war (as I have been most of this set), it'd certainly be nice to have another 16 countries with turns, but only during the summer would I have the time to run more than 16 anyway, and like azmodii said very well, if I run 10 and I'm 6 down on other people, I can deal with that. If I'm down 22 on other people, my ability to compete in the game drops drastically.

Not a suggestion, and maybe you guys have already heard it, but at least in FFA, the news is not being picked up.

Also, another suggestion for boxcar is that it'd be nice if there was a place to quickly add all 16 countries. When I was with LaE, I know Dark Morbid did a great job on that site and one of the features I especially appreciated was a place to copy/paste one's country list and it would register all 16 with one step that way.

That's what I'm figuring, but I hate to say something is impossible when I can't possibly know that for fact :)

If PANLV is giving aid to a country in NBK, please send me the evidence via a message. I'll do whatever I can to make sure it stops, as I'm not cool with FAing clans at war.

Edit: I should say I'm not cool with FAing clans at war that are not involved in that particular war. FAing between clans in a 2 v. 2 is a separate issue.

Here's what to watch the rest of the off-season: Who else will the Heat get to fill that roster?

Either:
1) A bunch of vets will sign up for league minimum for a chance to get a ring playing with these guys, or
2) They're gonna end up with a total crap roster of bad NBA players.

If it's 1, this team becomes the favorite to win the championship over both LA and Orlando. If it's 2, then they're in that top tier, but I'd take LA and Orlando, and perhaps even Boston over them.

Fun thing is: Chicago, one of the teams in the running, actually will basically become a better team by Lebron leaving Cleveland because they'll now have what should be a cakewalk to the Central Division lead.

Scorba: You did well with what you had. We'll put it that way.

Looks like Lee to Golden State via sign and trade. If anyone had that, they're clairvoyant.

Lebron rumors still swirl so heavy that who the hell knows. I honestly believe they're putting out purposeful misinformation this morning.

good luck.

Where they've actually gone:

Lebron -
Bosh - Miami
Wade - Miami
Johnson - Atlanta (6/120M)
Stoudemire - New York (5/100M)
Pierce - Celtics (4/61M)
Nowitzki - Dallas (4/80M)
Lee -
Boozer - Chicago (5/80M)