I think that if someone hits you, not matter their size you should be able to hit them back proportional to the GDI rules set forth in Primary. Meaning one PS or SS you can only PS or SS back but if they break GDI rules then all attacks are fair game.

I think the farming people on the fringe of humanitarians then jumping out of range is cheeky and not great game-play for the smaller individual. It is also counter intuitive.

I agree :-)

How is it counter-intuitive tho?

You can do the same both from on top and from the bottom.

Secondly, who hit first? Or does that matter? If I hit you and you hit back from 20% my NW does that mean I can now hit you all set despite humanitarians? What if I attack you early and then get into a war, does that mean you can farm me all set because I had alread hit you 2-4 weeks ago?

I would rather see the 25%-400% range be changed to like 16.67%-600% to make a greater selection of targets and perhaps SSing viable on primary. Right now grabbing is basically two degrees of midfeeding that is possible on that server, and all are PS. With 1/6 nw being the breaking point you'd get people SSing, and others doing this PSing midfeeding and it would likely be less punishing to get into the goldilocks zone because of an early war or something. And you couldnt be safe just by staying low NW til the grabbers stop growing. :)

Nope I don’t like the mechanic of hiding if you hit someone via game mechanics. If you attack the defender should be able to strike back, IMO.

Sounds like giving people the ability to retal regardless of size could very well make it so that frustration doesn't turn to quiting...and I don't think making that small change will hurt anything.

And again my opposition to it was not responded to:

"You can do the same both from on top and from the bottom.

Secondly, who hit first? Or does that matter? If I hit you and you hit back from 20% my NW does that mean I can now hit you all set despite humanitarians? What if I attack you early and then get into a war, does that mean you can farm me all set because I had alread hit you 2-4 weeks ago?"

It opens up to cheaters so much if you do this. So its up to you to tell me what type of mechanism you want there that does not in fact incentivise landfarm multies/friends.

My multi's will hit me and only me once early game, then hide under the humanitarians range and then I will start "retalling" them once the real targets start getting thin.

What logic you want to create to stop this? 24 hour limit? Only 1 hit ignoring Humanitarians for every defend?

Rules will be really complex to stop abuse, if even possible, and it will be hard to understand, creating more frustrated threads about why ppl can and cant hit them, same as now. In the meantime you don't actually solve a problem. The main issue as I understand it is that people dont know how GDI or humanitarians work or how to play effectively. If they did there would be less confused posts and people. Creating more intricate rules and special mechanics will only make that worse.

Meanwhile a 1/6 to 600% humanitarians limit would reduce the need for farming the same player and reduce the number of active players who anyone can even jump away from. It would also make grabbing in primary slightly more interesting in that some would SS bottomfeed while others would probably still just PS midfeed.

The Humanitarians help text could specify the NW range you can attack as such:
"Humanitarians block your ability to attack such a small/large opponent. On this server you can presently attack countries between $X1 NW and $X2 NW. Get gud!"

lol i didn't read all of that wall of text but it is simple:

If someone hits you, you should have the right to hit back even if they jump or drop NW. For the purpose of this suggestion that is really all that needs to be understood.

So you want cheaters to rule primary again. Great.

I agree with Requiem and also didn't read Gerdler's wall of text.

I should not be able to 5x tap someone with a missile stockpile and then jump and become immune to retaliation. I should need SDI if I am going to employ that playstyle.

Not what I said at all. Let me as a question: have you grabbed someone and jumped out of range to take advantage of this mechanic?

Yes if multi tapped, what I would think is that GDI rules still remain meaning that if it is just one grab then all you can do is SS/PS as retaliation however if you break GDI and multi tap then sure the missiles are open to retaliation; if someone should choose to multi tap a GDI member.

This suggestion was just a thought about what I would call gimmicky game play on the Primary server. People who use this to their advantage may not like the suggestion.

Pang is the ultimate decider of suggestions at any rate.

I use it every set and I agree with you, I was on the other side when I first started this server and it took me few sets to learn the tricks, even recently I was hit by a top country and said country jumped out of range, I stocked up, sold, retalled hard, it wasn't easy at all and I had flashback to when I first started playing this server LOL

I used it last reset and won. It clearly helps big players like me abuse the little guys, but as a competitive player I feel like I need to make use of it from time to time to maximize my chance at winning.

Okay, I became a little curious and went back and read Gerdler's wall post. It operates under the presumption that people can get away with running multis as it is, but instead of focusing on that issue, it identifies this new humanitarian suggestion as the problem. Huh? If I ran a multis I could surely keep one within humanitarian range to farm, or I could provoke a war with the other big countries running my strat, or do dozens of other things. The problem there is running multis, not this suggestion. That whole argument is a huge distraction and can safely be ignored.

The one somewhat pertinent thought that occurred to me when reading Gerderl's post is that this change would make the little guy who chooses to strike back in some capacity vulnerable to an even larger beatdown as humanitarians would then be lifted.

That is a possibility but if it follows gdi rules not necessarily a given.

There are two reasons cheating is not common now compared to before:

1. Its less effective now than before.
2. Its harder to get away with.

Cheating still exists, and players get away with cheating sometimes Im sure. If you create new mechanics that make cheating easier and more powerful you will see more cheating. You need both carrot and stick to make people play legit. Don't you guys remember how common landfarms used to be? Now they are so rare. Bots have more or less removed them from express, 1a and FFA. And because of present rules, an active mod team and C:C DR they are so rare that they can easily be spotted, reported, investigated and deleted when you see them on the other servers, including primary. I think some strong rep casher was deleted last set for that.

The main problem with the current system is that people dont understand it. Thats why one side farms and the other side posts angry threads on PT. Explain the current rules so that fewer can be exploited with ease, instead of creating far harder to understand mechanics with new flaws.

I vary the way I play depending on my mood. I have been doing 100% single-taps some sets and I have farmed and jumped some sets. Some sets I have run high SDI, Spal, tanks and farmed. I have combined them some sets. Thats three distinctly different ways of gaining land. You will remove one of them, thus making primary grabbing less complex.

Primary grabbing is unique. Top players, if you look closely, have quite varied grabbing techniques both between one another and evolving through the reset. That is not as much the case in other servers. Removing options is not a good idea.

What would be the problem with a humanitarian help text that explained why you can't retal? Once people learn any of them with half a brain and who is active will find ways to be able to send those pesky missiles on the grabber.