Part of the fun of this game was building a country and then trying to defend it during a kill-run. With the current method of attacking, this is impossible. This game is no longer fun for me because of this.

A few suggestions,
*Limit attacks per second (Simple and effective)
*Increase readiness loss the faster you attack (Increases strategy needed while attacking)

I can no longer play this game in its current state because it ruins all the fun. I know I am not the only one that agrees with this.

I will continue to be an IrcOP on Scourges server and I will continue to run and update the bots for the clans but I am done playing.

PS> The Warbots/PhoneBots are available on both Scourges server and the EE IRC Server for all who want them. (Minimum 5 member clans) See Dragon or myself for help.

But honestly, one of the main reasons people die in 20 seconds is warbots.

They tried slowing it down and vastly more people complained. It was horrible.

Go play ffa if you think 20 sec is bad. Seen kills in sub 10s.

Honestly, I don't need a warbot to contribute to a 20 sec or even less kill. However, bots can help many, thats for sure.



Yea, that cannot be a good thing. I would imagine it would make KRs boring and tedious as everyone fights to get a hit in.



My personal best CM rush on FFA is like 5 secs I think? Derrick was there, he can confirm, but yes it was on a bot. Just don't let me catch you slippin with no SDI ;-) haha.

We had sub 10s during the cc wars. You had to be fast or you would have been walled.

CC wars were best wars

sucks when a side has a bunch of players online and a bunch of turns, its gonna happen quick.

at least these days you can get an SMS - and if you lucky you get to wall, I don't remember such a luxury back in the day, and killing was just as quick as I recall, at least not orders of magnitude slower.

warbots (might) make kills more efficient in terms of break, but I don't think they are the root cause of the particular problem you are outlining

Some of the wars on team server with ZZ I did the bots job calling out the breaks. :) It works. Either way we dont really need to remove warbots, they are not the problem. If anything they make life easier for us all. Kills are very efficient at removing resources compared to maiming and for that reason we have a killing meta.

One way to make walling more likely would be to make attack type specific DR on special attacks and missiles to promote hybrid kills. QZ told me that he hoped to see more hybrid kills so changes in this direction might actually happen.

If DR on special attacks added up 1/50th as fast as for landgrabs you would have 350-500 hits on a GS kill but a hybrid kill of GS and then BR would take 200-250 hits similar to now. It would be more important to match NW and more important to have MStrat. In order to balance walling you could make it so all ingame actions (taking turns, buying, dropping land) instantly clears this attack specific DR. That would make walling much more likely while not as overpowered as now.

they tried slowing down kills.. the civ pop killed was like a rollercoaster

I remember going to school and coming home dead. Killing was simpler back then. Less likely to wall.

I died within 12 seconds last set

AzN!!!!

Just limit defending speed not attacking. Shouldn't be too hard. I've been logged in with browser open on phone and died to a 20 second kill last set and then a 30 second kill this set.

Any new players we get here aren't gonna be able to know the thrill of defending a KR.

The idea of DR being reset as you login is a good idea as well

the devs actually wanted to remove killing entirely which i didnt like

but why not make it so the restart bonuses are inverted

starting off high for blindsides

which is effectively what we see this set with many 0% sdi chem kills getting the least stuff back

then dropping as countries spend more of their resources walling/fighting

instead currently the least prepared countries both got the least stuff back because of no stock, possibly didnt even have anything on markets, were easiest to kill, and came back with something like 5% of the buildings they had before dying if they were chemmed, and a bunch of unbuilt most of which needed to be dropped

Guaranteed chance to wall with no restart bonus would be best imo

Removing killing entirely would be an interesting dynamic..... no need for it on solo servers. On alliance based servers it would take things back to the really early Earth2025 days - wars based on land. Part of the fun of Alluance wars was the walling and trying to cherrypick the odd kill (and beating Trife/Ravi/Assassin to it!) so personally Im not completely sold.

Maybe a formal ingame relations system like Utopia.

If I remember correctly.....

Alliance A declares on Alliance B and unleashes FS. Restart bonus is automatically disabled for Alliance A. After Alliance B reaches a certain number of hits on Alliance A then a state of total war and restart bonuses are deactivated for Alliance B.

There was a time in this game where killing was pretty much impossible.. like back in 1998. Is that what you are refering to Trumpoz?
Now I feel old.

Hi KoH! nice seeing you around again.

It seems so arbitrary to me thinking about changes.

I've been a huge proponent of mobile users being balanced with desktop users. Something like clocking the holding enter thing to 4 or 5 hits a second. No crazy reduction. Just enough where a mobile users thumb can keep up pace with a desktop users keyboard. (Or even allowing only one hit to pass on the send attack screen and multiples to go thru the attack again button). That's honestly as much as i would ever want to see it clocked tho.

The main reason i would hate clocking hits seems fairly obvious.

If you are only allowed to do one hit every 5 seconds, for example, then a 10 member clan can do a kill in 90 seconds tops (assuming 180 hits to kill). A 20 member clan can do a kill in 45 seconds, and a 50 member clan can still kill in under 30 seconds. Clocking the hit screen only provides an advantage in kill speed to a larger clan and doesn't really provide a solution.

I wouldn't mind seeing mobile users balanced with pc users but that's just to keep everyone on the same playing field.

You'd have to clock defends, not attacks, to slow the pace of a kill though so perhaps that's also irrelevant.

If you clock defends, youd probably have to program a screen that says something like "you cannot attack this player (player has been attacked in last second)." And i would rightfully smash the fluff out of my phone the 100th time i saw that.

You guys just need to get better at walling. Jus sayin'

The thrill of the wall is that you can be killed by a rush at any second. Your adrenaline is pumping. You make mistakes. You're scrambling to stay alive just another second to get FA. It's supposed to be difficult. That's part of the fun.

No new player will ever be able to wall effectively and that's my main point in clocking defends

As soon as you login it's fair game

I feel like i would legitimately never die if you were only allowed to do 1 hit per second on me lol. Maybe i would get bored waiting for half population and die getting stoned lol.

If the adrenaline rush of speed gets taken out of walling I'd probably be less apt to think war is fun. I'd probably just go full time all server netter...

If you want walling to be easy go play team. You ordinarily get 30 or 40 seconds there if you have a warbuild. Just hit a random 5 spot and wall your ass off. People do it all the time. Collect the xp necessary to respond faster and get better at it.

If I'm with a customer or sleeping theres usually no chance i wall in under 2 minutes so I'd be dead under any rule change. If im hit any other time I'm fully capable to respond within 10 seconds. If someone is able to kill me in under 10 seconds, they deserve that kill for good planning. Thats just how i feel about it.

Builds, followed by alliance strength, followed by target selection, followed lastly by walling determine who wins a war on 1a. And alliance should be in part based on the strength of your alliance.

Team wars are determined first by walling, then by builds, then by selection, then by overall strength. I think it's a proper server for people to play who aren't satisfied by wars based on overall war strength instead of walling...

3s ? :)

We all can't be as good as some of y'all killers

No you can still die in 20-30 seconds but you'd have to click "play your country"(5 second countdown)and an advisor that says we have held whatever you have on hand after the run. Enough time to buy and/or run turns

That's why phone and a mirc app can be helpful.

Keep pages loaded on cash turns priv and public market.

Turn off Wi-Fi.

why turn off wifi?

Because when you lose WiFi you have login again

Jabroni, I saved you like 3 times one reset and you ended up walling the hell out of elders/sof and stones. Are you at your summer cabin again?

You make a very valid point. I've played this game for ~20 years in various capacities. Back in the day of slower internet and no smart phones walling was possible. You had a minute or two to get on. It was a lot of fun being able to wall. Last set in the server war I was lucky enough to wall and it was a lot of fun (I walled a missile rush).

There needs to be some kind of limitation from the game that slows down kills to ~1 min or so at the fastest. 10 second kills should not be a part of a game that takes you weeks or month to build a war country. Something needs addressed.

Coupled with this I would also suggest changing restart bonuses. If we make it more manageable to wall then the penalty for dying needs to be more severe.

Everyone that agrees needs to PM QZ and Pang (respectfully) and voice our opinions.

Braaap

hybrid kills would slow it down even with no limit to the attack speed. switching over would require some time always.

Nerfing kill speed has been done before. It really made war stupid. Quite simply, if you have an Alliance of half good wallers they won't die. This is what I posted back in 2015 last time someone made a thread like this:-

http://www.earthempires.com/...s-even-fun-36047/2#653306

Sov
Forum Moderator
2126
May 8th 2015, 16:02:16
What you (and others) are suggesting has been done before and it made war stupid. It is an interesting argument because everyone here advocating for changes to warring are netters who do not war with any regularity if at all. I don't think you'll find anyone in MD, SOL or SoF agree that warring mechanics need to change and that is because we know how much the warring experience is hurt by such mechanics being implemented. LAF advocate the changes to speed because it suits their style and plays into their own strengths.

It was also mentioned by someone else that a vocal minority got the changes revoked. This is not the case as the changes were opposed by the majority of warrers for whom had to fight with these ridiculous mechanics in place.

In my experience there are a handful of players in the entire game who can wall within 15 seconds. In MD, SOL and SoF I believe about 1/4 of the players in those tags can wall within 30 seconds, although sometimes you get lucky and catch them at a bad time.

Most players in warring tags just want to be able to log in, attend a warchat, get a kill and log off. Their sense of achievement in the game comes from getting the kills and winning the war. It takes weeks to win a war so most of the time the fun in the game is in successful warchats.

If you make walling easier to do you play into the hands of the few people who are able to wall and make them even harder to kill, thus when you get to the last 10-15 remaining originals you hit a wall and this is often where a war can be lost. How? Because you cannot kill those 10-15 players and you keep trying for days and have little success so you are reduced to killing restarts just to get a kill. People stop having fun and attendance starts to fade as people lose motivation and then killing those 10-15 starts to become even harder.

Dying is part of war and people should accept that. It is not like back in Earth2025 the ratio of countries walling and dying was any different to what it is now. The hits per kill over the last 10 years has actually been fairly comparable. So what is the problem? You die in war, you restart and now you get some nice restart bonuses to make restarting less painful. Why do we need to harm the warchat experience just because people don't like dying?

It also should be pointed out that with current technology (i.e phones) almost anyone should be able to stonewall (assuming your Alliance is organised enough in terms of notifications) within 30 seconds. Now to those who say you cannot wall fast from a phone, I would say that is only because you are not prepared. If you are logged in from your phone whenever you are not at your computer and have windows/tabs ready to buy up you should be able to wall within 10 seconds, it is just a matter of preparation. If you are set up to wall at all times all you need to do is unlock your phone, select the appropriate tab and click to buy... If that takes you more than 30 seconds then you are not doing it right.

Now another point in this game is that in the past 3 years I've been in EE it is the warring tags that grow this game and sustain it's members. I'd actually advocate that it is the stale state of warring politics which is attributing to the current decline of the game because there is simply not enough action, drama or intrigue to keep warring people interested in the game. Think of 2 years ago when the warring tags were fairly closely matched and competitive politically, there was an arms race and the game was growing. Now there is none and the game is declining.

The tldr version of the above post:-

The fun in warring is killing. People do not war because they have fun walling. Don't hurt the killing part just because people do not like dying. Dying is part of war. If you are REALLY good you might not die but probably still will.

And this is qzjul's reply to my post:-




qzjul
Administrator
Game Development
10,161
May 8th 2015, 17:31:53
Yea, and my experiences in war, despite definitely feeling the "dying too fast thing" myself, has been more along the lines of what Sov is saying -- it's the *looong griind* that wears down people until they get tired and quit; the fast wars usually lead to people just chilling after and maybe taking some time off or half-heartedly netting, but not being exhausted from weeks of futile hitting.

I generally like the idea of the restart bonus, as it does reward people for having a good country before the war, and also for efforts in walling, I don't know if it's balanced well, but it hasn't been drawing as many complaints recently, which usually indicates it's not terrible! :)

I kindof would like some more-formalized warring system some time, i think that might drive things to be more awesome; and maybe reward both sides based on losses at the conclusion of a win or loss, or something.

This was tried before and it failed miserably...


1) Yes there is 10 second war chats which is just part of the game. Yes we all would like to be able to stonewall more and some runs are capable and others are not but, its part of the game. This has been a fundamental issue sense the invention of high speed internet.

2) If you slow down war chats a few players like slash, dragon, and other A list stonewallers that can wall 10 second kill runs become impossible to kill.

I personally miss the revised formula that was removed because some people thought it was impossible to kill some countries where pop killed initially wasn't as much as later and every time you got FA or did a buy up, the pop formula reset requiring more hits. This was a little over powered before they added the production effects of low pop but, I feel could be tweaked to make war more interesting.

Wars have always been about speed, efficiency, and activity. Every set someone comes on complaining war hits are to fast and we get another thread talking about nerfing game fundamentals. Most of these changes do not work as intended and just create more issues.

I like the current system. Doesnt need to be changed.

True dat.

Speed kills from the cell phone have ruined the 10 second kill.....now it's more like 20 seconds :P

Sov has good points, sui has hepatitis

I didn’t read the long posts but if you don’t agree don’t message them! 🤷‍♂️

I'm glad that not everybody walls in this game. That would just be such a pain in the side and the game would become too frustrating if walling was based on a computerized timer. Everybody just wants easy street. Jabroni, when you're back from the summer cabin get back with it.

I remember calling people on the phone and telling them to wall back in the day...only to have their mom answer the landline...in a different language.

This drives me nuts. Why do you get logged out when your IP changes?

Also what if you could buy troops/turrets/etc from a text message? That'd be cool.

That's a good question that only the mods can answer.

I think he means admins can answer.

In the meantime, I have no clue how fast I died last night. But you all please turn off that camera. I had just logged into my country, got up, went to the kitchen to get water, turned out the lights and headed for bed. Was in the hallway. Got a text. Attempted to run in the dark without falling over toys or into a wall and dying in RL lol.....instead, my country was dead. Had to be pretty damn quick, I was just in the country.

It was slow by our standards :p

Killrun stats: Effin Shine Box (#19) [LaF] Dead! - 254 @ 5.18 hps (gs=254) - Time: 00:49 @ 2019-05-28 13:36:42

49 seconds! You had plenty of time!

[quote poster=Karnage XZ; 46969; 896958]

Because your session is tied to your connection, if that changes then the server cannot verify the identity of the person using the site thus you have to re-identify and get a new session with the server.