Is a complete waste of time. Its full of all kinds of bullfluff. Drafted by flufftarded imbeciles. 25 day time limit on negotiating access to suspected sites? Are you fluffing kidding me? The world is delusional.

Military site are not listed as possible nuke sites?
Bullfluff.

obama admin just wanted to get something done to say "hey look i accomplished something during my term"....thats ok Israelis will be bombing Iran by next summer lol

bro

obama brought healthcare to all
fixed racism
and got peace in the middle east

respect your new god

Viva Obama!

/me bow downs.....lmao

pure crap!

The traitor in the White House has fluffed us pretty good, but not as good as he's fluffed the Saudi's and the Israeli's. I can't hardly wait for the military to wise up, and start arresting politicians and dragging Obama's dumb ass out of the White House kicking and screaming and waving his pen and phone around threatening them with some imbecilic punishment for disobeying his direct orders, which are not lawful anyway.

I will celebrate that day like it was the day after the revolution.

he shot bin laden in the face too

in times like this you really gotta ask yourself. what would george w bush do?

he would do a George Jung sized line of blow and start pushing launch buttons saying "pew pew pew"

LOL ^^^

I didn't realize he was at the compound pulling the trigger, I'm impressed!

Viva Obama!

his whole world is fps

obombs has killed SOOO many terrorists. GW Bush would be jelly

bullfluff, dubua started 2 wars to kill turrists, obumur just ended them! he let em win! then he done gone and signed a deal with the worst state sponsor of them dad gum turrists left in the middle east.

obumur is a turrist

logic undeniable

the wars are over and yet terrorists are still dying. huh.

are they though?

So....the ISIS dudes here in the US are just tourists, good I was worried for a minute...all is good!

american is obamas third language, after kenyan and whatever backwards language the mooslims' bible is in. tourist sounds a lot like terrorist. it's an understandable mistake, like corps.

http://tinyurl.com/qg3agw3

http://www.mapo.al/...2015/02/lindsey-pelas.jpg

Come on guys " We have peace in our time", B.O. has made N. Chamberlain look good!

The best thing we could hope for out of this is for Iran to get a nuke and that they launch it at Israel at the same time Israel sends one their way. With both Iran and Israel gone, the world would be a much better place.

This thread is dumb, but I'm going to try making a thoughtful reply and see what happens:

This is a bad deal for the short term -- it leaves US allies in a bad spot and will certainly increase the proxy war between the Saudis and Iranians. Israel will be pissed about Iran's threat to their homeland, but honestly Israeli leaders are just grandstanding for the local populace; they're safer with Iran being a friend to the west. When it comes down to it, the powers-that-be in Iran won't attack Israel anyway because they know Iran will be ruined by America if they do. Egypt, Turkey and Israel (and Jordan, UAE, etc) have reason to be really pissed about the security implications in general; the proxy war in the region is going to inflame and lots of US allies may be in the line of fire.

But if this is part of a longer term strategic shift for the US away from the Saudis and toward Iran then I think it's a good deal.

Think about the trajectory of the region: Iran is becoming more moderate, their population wants reforms and internationalization. In another generation (or less) the revolutionists and death to America crowd will be dying off and getting marginalized; without sanctions and never-ending threats of war it's more difficult for hardliners to have a soap box to stand on to rile people up. Contrast that with Saudi Arabia which has far strict controls on freedom that likely won't be improving any time soon.

Iran has some semblance of a democratic system which runs the day-to-day aspects of the country. Saudi Arabia is an absolute monarchy where princes manage day-to-day aspects of the country. If the ayatollah becomes a figure head moreso than someone who actually wields the final say when they want to then their system of governance looks more like a constitutional monarchy than a theocracy.

The Iranian constitution actually reads like a document focused on governance; the Saudi constitution is literally the Quran.

The Iranian economy is more mixed (while still being underpinned by energy) while the Saudi economy is basically JUST oil and not much else. There is so much more investment opportunity for the west in Iran than there is in Saudi Arabia.

IMO Iran is a lot more attractive ally and trading partner than Saudi Arabia for western countries. If deals like this can push Iran from foe to friend then that's probably a good thing for western countries in terms of security and economics. Iran being 2.5x bigger than Saudi Arabia -- thus a much bigger market -- is just the icing on the cake!

Honestly, anything that keeps the mid-east in a state of tension is a good thing. Iran fluffed us big time 35 years ago (though we sort of asked for it), but over the last 15 years, Saudi Arabia has gradually become a far greater threat than Iran. If you think Iran sponsors more terrorist threats to the US than the Saudis, you are delusional. Besides, Iran has arguabley the only decent looking women in the middle east, viva la Shia!

As for ISIS, best thing to happen in the middle east in 70 years, if I could send them money I would. A Caliphate by nature does not really give a fluff about external affairs, they dont really care about the US as long as we are here and not there. What they really DO care about is non-conforming muslims at their borders. All of the people that hate us the most suddenly have this cancerous growth in their midst. Let it grow I say, let it grow.

A very well reasoned argument Pang. :) The way I see it, Iran is going to get a nuke, and they're very likely to use it quickly once they do. I don't figure their first target will be Israel though. it will likely be Saudi Arabia, whom they are VERY pissed off at over all the deals with the west over the decades.

Just that will set off a major panic among the largest countries, ie, China, Russia, U.S. etc. for access to oil to replace the oil lost by the elimination of Saudi Arabia from the global oil market because they have a hundred years of fires to put out.

dat canadian oil

A Saudi/Iranian war that also takes place in Iraq is the best situation for Canadian oil! We can ramp things back up no problem, but if they wait til after the election that would be ideal.

But seriously re: Iran and nukes - they're not crazy. They have self preservation instincts and MAD is a legitimate deterrent for a nuclear Iran. I think they're FAR more likely to use it as a last resort in a war than in a first strike, much like the Israeli arsenal. That war would more than likely be vs an advancing Sunni army, not the US or Europe or Israel.

North Korea hasn't nuked Seoul yet despite having nuclear weapons and being within fairly close range (tunnelling range) because even they have enough self preservation instinct to know an attack means complete destruction. But at the same time their new leader is consolidating power and purging the military so he can control it all so I hope I don't have to eat those words. :p

You mean maple syrup?

http://eliotelwarapologetics.com/...xt-arab-israeli-conflict/

It references a book I read at one point because I was bored and it was there.



Nah, I mean the good stuff from the sands of the north

i still like viral photo of like 10 ISIS guys all standing around. then you look at random tattoos showing on a few of their bodies low and behold army ranger tattoos.

http://news.yahoo.com/...clear-deal-051938755.html

So much for the "Deal".

Republicans in congress basically said the same sort of stuff about Iran

Both are playing to their own internal fringes. Congratulations on being part of the fringe in the US.

Hostages will remain as such, good to know!

Thanks Obama!

Obama says prisoners.
Hostages will stay until a non democrat potus is elected.

Bring back Reagan!

But first, please read up on the last time that happened....

Let's resurrect his ass...

No. Reading is for suckers. Obummer should make the supreme leader wash Netanyahu's feet with water from a well at Auschwitz. Then the supreme leader should drink that water to toast the deal. Then iran would have release the prisoners after trump gets elected. No hope for that now.
Thanks obama.

The last time real wages went up was in the administration before Reagan. Just saying....

I actually wonder whether some of the die-hard right wing folks here are rich as well and benefit from such policies that stagnate the wages of the proletariate or if they are merely ignorant sheep who align more with conservative social values and hate-filled overtones that the right seems to champion.

I don't see the value in focusing on fringe issues like the Iran deal and not the underlying economic stagnation and garbage electoral system that negatively impacts your country's long term wellbeing (and mine, come on guys... pull it together for the Canadians). That kind of garbage crosses party lines.

the US's infrastructure is our biggest problem, and no one ever talks about it.

most of our roads and bridges are from the Eisenhower Administration, and the ASCE gave us D+, LOL

Obama is behind it all, fact amundo lol

100% agree with this. We're not much better up here, but every year EVERYTHING is under construction all the time but it's mainly just repairing what was damaged in the winter.

It's sad when the political logic is: any deal is better than no deal.
Guess what? It's not!

Good luck.

** SNIP great commentary **



I love your comments, but that is a BIG "if". My concern has a lot less to do with the nukes (I tend to agree that they are unlikely to use them vs. wanting to have them for their own side of the MAD equation) and more to do with conventional weapons. This deal opens the floodgates on a lot of conventional warfare options or just general malfeasance by their government and the groups they support.

I haven't made up my mind on this one yet, but I'd play out those scenarios a bit more before I decided to lift those arms embargoes.... I mean are China and Russia only in this for the arms sales, or do they expect a different outcome than we do?

Here's my problem with the "roads and bridges" argument. Obama when he came into office lobbied for and got a stimulus that he bloody said would in large portion go towards our infrastructure for shovel ready jobs. Apparently none of it actually did because the next election cycle we heard the same fluff yet again about crumbling roads and infrastructure.

This is what drives me nuts about Democrats. You say we have crumbling infrastructure, great lets fix that. Start by telling us exactly how much money you need to fix what you need to fix and we'll give you that in a one time payment. None of this levying taxes for endless bureaucratic money pits that never get enough no matter how much is sunk into them.

I don't know about you, but here a ton of that money went into local infrastructure projects. But, the problem is WHICH projects. Watch John Oliver's piece about dams in America and you'll see a great summary of the problem. It is exactly what played out here....

What were some of those shovel ready projects? NEW construction. New sidewalks, new buildings, new roads, new toll-lane systems, etc. etc. As Oliver points out, a politician can stand for a photo-op at a ribbon cutting for something "new" but doesn't really get that "sexy" photo-op for basic maintenance on a dam.

This isn't a party problem either, it has been done by both parties at the local, state and federal level. It is a problem of a political system of poorly educated and poorly informed voters in what amounts more to a popularity contest of sound-bytes and photo-ops than real analysis and debate (something journalism USED to do more of to help).