http://www.civilwar.org/.../declarationofcauses.html

From Mississippi's declaration of causes of secession:

'Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery - the greatest material interest of the world.'

From the Texas letter of secession:

'We hold as undeniable truths that the governments of the various States, and of the confederacy itself, were established exclusively by the white race, for themselves and their posterity; that the African race had no agency in their establishment; that they were rightfully held and regarded as an inferior and dependent race, and in that condition only could their existence in this country be rendered beneficial or tolerable.

Bonus quote:

'Our new Government is founded upon exactly the opposite ideas; its foundations are laid, its cornerstone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery, subordination to the superior race, is his natural and normal condition.' - Confederate Vice President Alexander Stephens

breaking news

the south liked slavery!

150 years ago when their entire economy was based around it

glad you can admit it instead of claiming that it was over states rights :D

It was about both....

What is with this either or fluff.

and what states rights were they at issue with???????????????????????????????????????????????


;)

One of the state's rights was about the expansion of slavery, but if you think that was the only bone of contention you havnt really been involved in many rights disputes. They often have little to do with the individual right under attack. The "where does it stop" arguments and the exploitation of the south economically through tariffs and the losing of votes in the legislature.

Stop being as ignorant as the people of that era. You focusing in racism and white supeority only empowers those who still support it. It was a bit more complex than that and not everyone who understands that is a racist. You are smarter than your sensationalist arguments. Act like it.

The orange flag with the "X" bars isn't the actual Confederate Flag. The true Confederate flag was very similar to the current US flag. The "bars and stars" flag flying over the South Carolina capital, and on the Duke boys (etc.) was one that originated in Virginia and Tennessee some years later, and was adopted by the KKK.

http://www.rulen.com/myths/1st.gif

the north wanted to end slavery because they wanted economic superiority over the south. they realized that the south, in slaves, held more wealth than they did and they were going to have no truck.

No braden...The north did not want to end slavery. The emancipation was a tool to end the Civil War. When Lincoln first tried to push it through it was just a bluff a untimatum. If all rebellious states laid down their arms they would be allowed to keep slavery but they didn't. So when it went into effect in 1863 it didn't free all slaves only the ones south of the Mason-Dixson line. The slave owners that fought for the Union stil had slaves.

And don't forget Lincoln signed the emancipation also to keep the French and British from coming to aid the Confederacy. And so he could legally enlist black men as soldiers and use them to suicide attack Confederate forts. Check the movie Glory out and see how "not" racist the people of the north really where.

Not to mention the Union was powered by Irish slaves (not captivity) but economical slaves.

yep, the rebel flag started taking off as a symbol in support of jim crow laws after 1964ish

which boggles my brain when folks say it's about heritage - it wasn't widely used until close to 100 years after the civil war

you dont have the right to tell other people what a symbol means to them.

to most it is little more than a rebel flag.

not unlike the gadsden

The stars and bars flag that your talking about was the battle flag for the Confederate army on the battle field.

IT originating years later...is false. THat flag is the official flag..the stars and bars was the battle flag like I said.

i'll just C&P a comment from the interwebs:

I was arguing with someone about this. I brought up the point that "If you saw someone with a swastika, would you think they supported the pride and growth of Germany? No, you'd think they were a fluffing Nazi like any sane person would." People are getting into fits because they are special snowflakes who think that the symbolism of something shouldn't be assumed on them when they use it. I'm fluffing sorry, but when a set of ideas or ideals or events is tied to a symbol, especially when that symbol was created for those ideas (there was no rebel flag floating aware before the Civil War as far as I'm aware), then guess what? If you wear it or use it, people will assume you represent those ideas if you wear it, or that you're ignorant. It's your place to argue otherwise as to why you use it, not there's to not assume. Society is nothing but assumptions and the aftermath.

well, it is a bit mor complex than that

first confederate national flag:
http://www.usflag.org/historical/stars.bars.gif

it had variations all the way up to 13 stars. there were complaints that on the battlefield this looked too similar to the Union flag, so a redesign was made


the second flag:
http://www.usflag.org/historical/confed2.gif

it was a white flag with the stars and bars in the upper left corner, it was called "The Stainless Banner". the problem with this flag was when the wind wasnt blowing, it kinda looked like a white flag of surrender, so after c aouple years they changed it again

third flag:
http://www.usflag.org/historical/confed3.gif

called the blood stained banner, they just added a vertical red stripe on the end.


it is a bit more complex than that, but that is the short and skinny on the 3 basic confederate national flags.

If I saw someone representing the Swastika I would think they where a member of the prison gang...Aryan Brotherhood. Which is a prison gang so as you can imagine they aren't the brightest.

A Confederate flag flying of a memorial for soldiers that died there is not racist.

So, if the KKK adopted McDonalds golden arches as their new symbol...would we then have to ban that?

if you want to be judgmental, that is your choice. im not going to change my ideals because you are butthurt.

And just to add on the AB the founding member is half Jewish...so as you can see no matter who or what you are you can adopt any symbol and use it anyway you see fit.

That shouldn't effect what the original flag meant. And fighting to keep slavery...is not the original meaning. When the war started they never where being threatened to have slavery taken from them.

not asking you to change your ideals kind sir! just asking for you not to get all butthurt and complain about free speech when others views your ideals and symbols as racist

wikipedia copypasta:

In their study of Confederate symbols in the contemporary Southern United States, the Southern political scientists James Michael Martinez, William Donald Richardson, and Ron McNinch-Su write:

The battle flag was never adopted by the Confederate Congress, never flew over any state capitols during the Confederacy, and was never officially used by Confederate veterans' groups. The flag probably would have been relegated to Civil War museums if it had not been resurrected by the resurgent KKK and used by Southern Dixiecrats during the 1948 presidential election.

Southern historian Gordon Rhea further wrote in 2011 that:

It is no accident that Confederate symbols have been the mainstay of white supremacist organizations, from the Ku Klux Klan to the skinheads. They did not appropriate the Confederate battle flag simply because it was pretty. They picked it because it was the flag of a nation dedicated to their ideals: 'that the negro is not equal to the white man'. The Confederate flag, we are told, represents heritage, not hate. But why should we celebrate a heritage grounded in hate, a heritage whose self-avowed reason for existence was the exploitation and debasement of a sizeable segment of its population?

The USA is just full of a bunch of pussies now days that want any little reason to be offended.

The KKK could turn around and adopt the black panther symbol tomorrow...what a small group of individuals do shouldn't effect the whole damn country.

Just like a half jewish man adopting the Swaztika to be over his prison gang.

The KKK is irrelovent to the discussion. It's been abandoned for 30+ years i'd assume it might still have a few hundred "claiming" membership if that.

Sons of Confederate Veterans used the flag since their formation in 1898, and it has been used in veterans memorials and related events ever since. it honors the soldiers, not the ideals.

while the Dixiecrats were rascist fluffs, they adopted the flag as a symbol of anti federal government, not mainly rascism.

the flag went up on the SC capitol grounds in 1961 to commemorate the centennial of the war


you can cherrypick details all you want. it is your choice to be judgmental, your freedom. just dont expect me not to call you a dumbass for doing so. you are jsut as prejudice as you are accusing racists of being, and i find a simple pleasure in that.

ANTI-FEDERAL GOVERNMENT!!!!!

The whole reason for the Civil War. The ACTUAL reason. Also the whole damn reason we wanted to break away from the British.

Taxation without representation.

*stirs*

And now no more models or toys of the General Lee car

Logical...

So what do you suppose would have happened if Lincoln had not escalated the war? I am thinking slavery dies out on its own,not many states follow south Carolina into secession and, those that did soon rejoin the union. We would not be fighting about some stupid flag and maybe worrying about something way more important Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

There was a book made about "what if" the South won?
Anyone know it? I'll need to find that now and read it.

After the war most of the freed slaves stayed where they where and started share cropping so it wasn't a huge difference anyway.

But, what about 'Free Trade' Trife since your such an anti-slavery advocate. What do you think about rich business owners putting factories up in 3rd world countries for almost completely free labor? Whats good about this form of slavery for us is that we get free labor and we don't have to feed or house the employee.

But your cool with that right? I mean i'm sure you wear name brand clothes and drive "American" cars...and watch TVs and sit on furniture and on and on...Almost all of those products made by "slaves" and you don't care because you get them cheap.

Yes and no. The "flag" honors nothing by itself. People who fly the flag may or may not honor something.

If you have lived in the South, then you know - some people fly this battle flag believing it represents a cultural heritage that there are a myriad of other and better ways of honoring - but MOST people I have EVER encountered and had honest discussions with who fly this flag, put it on their truck or the FB profile are using "heritage" as a cover to hide how they really feel. This is my experience when they directly tell me so. I cannot say it covers everyone, but I've lived here long enough and spoken to enough to see a pattern emerge.

What's worst are people who fly THIS flag and who don't fly the American flag. They claim it is heritage and honoring their ancestors who fought (yada yada) but they also had ancestors who fought in the world wars under the American flag and they won't fly that. Clearly they are cherry-picking something they know is today evocative of conflict and racism. Whether they are racist themselves or just trolling society for kicks is another question. Often, the latter. They like pissing people off for fun and it gives them some sort of unique identity kick.

So if a white man flew the Confederate flag and said it is to show my white pride would you consider that racist?

Don't assume he's believes in slavery...I've never met no matter how ignorant or racist a white person that would flat out say I think we should still have slaves...EVER.

I have lived in the south my entire life. I have plenty of friends that fly the flag that arnt racist in the least. Sure there are racist fluffs out there who use the flag how they wish, but I don't associate with them and your ignorance is the only thing that makes you associate them with me.

That is your choice, but to assume something about an entire group because of certain members sounds familiar. Isn't that what you are speaking out against? Itonic.

Exactly! Thank you mrford.

Where do you stop though? Take away the flag, and then look for the next offensive thing? That is what this is about. It is not about slavery, it is not about a bunch of people from the south wanting to protect their heritage. It is about the government wanting to side with the majority to gain votes to stay in office.

I find it hilarious that the biggest noise comes from the democrats on this issue when in fact it was them (democrats) who supported and promoted slavery back in the day....


GUILT TRIP ANYONE?!?!?!?!


Oh those skeletons must really be pounding hard on the liberals closets!!


You don't fool anyone, you libs were and still are the most racist intolerant assholes ever to walk on our soil, but I tip my hat for your dedication to brainwash the weak to believe your lies and deception, it's very entertaining!

the worst part of our country are the 2 words liberal and conservative.

I agree, that's why I ain't either of them and unfortunately there are way too many of both and easily identified after a couple minutes chatting, the reason I despise the left is purely based on interactive experience with them, not pleasant and very angry individuals with a sense of superiority over anyone who doesn't agree with their school of thought.

you cant agree with my point, then fluff the words out as much as you do....

I can, and did :-)

Let me rephrase

you cant agree with my point, then fluff the words out as much as you do without being a hypocrite.

How does disliking one side more than the other make me a hypocrite?

You know what, I misunderstood, I don't agree to the actual words, I thought you meant parties.

No, I mean the one side or the other attitude associated with the words and the parties themselves I suppose. It eleminates middle ground.

It's not a one or the other attitude, its a reality, my life experience with both political views.

That, by definition, is one or the other.

People will see an opinion on a single topic, and instantly label them and assume all their other opinions.

It is kinda like the Confederate flag issue. Weird how that works huh?

does not make me think of anything racist. What i think about is the south an rednecks.