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I read the thread, Xin explained everything.

that he does usually.

walking ee guide book.

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This is not true. I'll let someone else answer, or update this post when I have more time.

dict has natural 25% military strength and spy strength so good breaker and spier.

in netting dict has major disadvantage due construction speed (with same amount of cs's non-theo/commy get 80 bpt but dict only 60bpt).

of course commy can beat dict in war and rep can beat commy etc.

why go to dict? military strength is 1 reason.

land trading
spy country
netting
war
suiciding
retals late set

Ahh, this is from Express. That would be your issue.
On alliance Commie is pretty much garbage, the key strat for it has no real longevity. Early wars, early retaling, early suiciding. The key word is early.

I am sure some nut job has taken a commie to the top 10 maybe even won with it, but certainly not optimal.

So on this server Dict > Commie but on express I have no doubt that Commie is a better govt and commie indy a viable strat.

That is pretty much what I said in the other thread. Maybe he will believe you.

Ci are fun to play but won't get you far. Below are the top 3 record of CI on Alliance server. With the new changes, I doubt anybody could break 250m with a ci.


Walls Of Odengrad (#235) 80,206 $243,184,594 C UKNKSF
AzN (#172) 85,302 $237,071,565 CG NeoFed
Ponti (#572) 96,306 $226,222,178 CG Neofed

^^^Neo ftw.

lol Neo all over that list

A dict can be a very viable netting strat IF you are running a hardcore land trader and taking advantage of the dict GA benefits, otherwise dicts are primarily a war strat. In fact, most people planning on warring with a dict will run it as a monarchy until just before war season starts to avoid the onerous construction penalties.

Commies have 8 T-10 finishes, but no wins. Even people that gain land as a dict would never destock as a dict, but they have had many good finishes destocking as H or D. If you run a commie like slagpit and are not concerned with trying to win, just getting a good finish in a novel way - a commie can be a viable netting strat - but for mere mortals, its a dead end netter.

????

Celphi's main argument seems to be that the dict government is crap at solo netting and crap at solo war. that sounds about right. it is crap at both.

she seems to think that is a balancing issue. But this game is balanced around it's two main servers, primary and alliance.

Most of the top 10 on alliance last set(including the winner) were Dicts most of the reset. Dicts also run the best pure spy countries. Conversely Commies are widely considered the crappiest and most useless government/strategy(as commies are pigeonholed into Indies) on alliance.

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Your numbers are too small. Numerous people have told you why commie fizzle out in the longer sets on primary and alliance, you just don't want to listen. You can sit there and do numbers all you want, but people here with decades of experience are not lying to you. Stop being so fluffing hard headed dude.

Express is a different environment than any other server. Only 1799 turns, and commie was buffed by being able to sale 60% at one time. You also can't sale Goode every 30 minutes, you have to wait every 4 to 6 hours.

I'm going to spell this out slow for you.

You. Cant. Compare. The. Servers.

If you don't get it by now, everyone needs to give up on you because you are either trolling, or dumb as fluff.

Your example is too limited. You played to like 200 turns. We play to 4000 turns.
A commie will be struggling on money and have to ramp down it's production by week 2. I would also argue that a not land trading dict casher is probably more useful than farmer. By the end of week 2 pretty much every strat is going to have more production than the commie or should in any case. By the time stocking comes around that commie will be losing 4% more to market commission, require the most tech of any strat just to maintain costs and try to stay at full production, and still not producing what a well played cahser would.

Ford, get out of my head.

Lol

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Did you just say that a 4% overall commission would be negated because a commie can put more on the market?

Do you even % bro?

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I feel you don't know how percentages work. You still lose that money, it's just hidden because of the larger number.....

u wat m8?!
That's not how it works. That's not how any of this works.

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since when did commie on alliance or any other server besides express go up to 35% allowed on the market.. isnt it still 25%?

if it is 25% ur end figure is way off, cause if u can sell the same amount of goods for different sales taxes.. guess what? THE HIGHER TAX RATE LOSES MORE MONEY!

your calculations may be correct, but your interpretation of them is insanely incorrect. you are beginning to look like an idiot. i suggest you read everyone elses explanation, and readjust your thinking.

i stand corrected.. primary commie can put 35%..

it is 35% on every server except express. it is 60% in express.

Ok but my calculations are right too. I bet I can jump to 2 mil net right now on free for all server. That's x2 the net of the #1 spot.

This entire game is numbers. The more money you can stockpile the easier it is to win. And really, it requires 0 turns.

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this game is a tad bit more complicated than you seem to understand. hopefully you get there eventually.

join laf, that way u can net against people telling u ur wrong.. and be in the same environment, that no excuses come up in regards to tag protection

You can jump to 2mil net?! So what?
In FFA they jump to 1B NW.

Here we have had 400m NW no land trading finishes. A majority of that was done in the last week of the set.

I really think you have no clue what you are talking about.

Not to sound arrogant, but I don't see any clans that have any decent nets currently showing on free for all server. So I'm going to wait and see who pops up from stocking. Then I'll join one.

2 mil in the first 6 days isn't bad on FFA. Nobody has 1 bil net in the first 6 days.

Jesus....

FFA just restarted. My countries are all like 350k NW and 2 sets ago I put up a 1.4bill NW country.

You need to stop back a bit and join a clan and learn some basics first my man. It will do you good. You will be amazed at the difference.

Maybe he doesn't understand the concept of stocking since he only plays express.

perhaps he doesnt understand the concept of expenses either.. as express is only 1 week long.. when u need lowest possible expenses for 6-7.5 weeks on alliance..

Haha,... I don't only play express. I'm #1 in tourney too. Im experimenting though. So let's see how my experiment goes in a few days.

um. the majority of networth is in military. military requires upkeep.

http://www.earthempires.com/ffa/26/ranks

the winning country last set had $1,129,573,936 networth. His expenses on that networth are $1.5b cash/turn. $1.5B cash is about 6m NW for a 0mb theo. If he ran a day of turns with that kind of networth he would lose $450m+ NW in expenses.

On tag servers we store our networth in bushels and sit those bushels on the market at non saleable prices. As the end of the reset approaches on tag servers the players all change governments, sell their bushels, then buy military.

So the winner in alliance last reset went from 20m NW to 300+m NW in a week.


The best players generally play alliance. I often consider FFA and Express chump servers. Tourney has an active player base that can be counted on my fingers and toes. Primary is competitive, but there you will find 40-60 players capable of finishing t10 whereas in alliance there are probably 150-200. If you would like to learn the strategies and math behind the game you can find the best at http://www.lafamiglia.org

I'm considered a lazy-can't finish-blase netter in LaF but I still have spreadsheets that can calculate most of what I do. I think the destocking spreadsheet has around 40 variables.

A person with references and data. Nice post Cloaked! I'll check it out.

Express and tourney are probably the least competitive servers in the game

Also, #1 at any time other than maybe the last 10% of the set is usually a bad thing. Means your expenses are too high

This is why commie fizzles out in long sets. Along with the higher market tolls, a commie indy, by definition, carries a lot of NW and military to sell because of the nature of its production.

The market toll, and expense burden makes commie shifty for long term goals. You would need a fluff ton of land, and sale as often as possible.

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No one is disputing that dude, but any other strat isn't burdened by these same things, meaning after a certain point they will be better.

You can run your turns making 10 mill a turn, and I'll make 20 mill a turn. You are going to lose.

This is the classic noob that knows it all. Waste of time to continue explaining.
Thinks being #1 any time but the very end implies skill, wow just wow.

Hmm... I'm not sure where you got your conclusion from Symac. I never stated that.

As for Mrford's statement, yes, it's true you can earn more with a smaller military by *hiding*. I think the old trick was to maintain a 30% smaller acreage than the surrounding net's on the scoreboard, to minimize your chances of getting attacked while stock pilling your profits into bushels on the market. But if you're #1 or top 5, the chances of you getting land grabbed are quite slim, unless you're super land fat. Whereas at a lower net, multiple people could ruin your entire set. A person would think if a country has low land that they were packing a super military, but if people still use that strategy, you'd be surprised.

So I guess it's sorta like the bigger the risk the greater chance for reward kinda deal. But, I'm looking for a more of a concrete approach that eliminates most of outside variables.

you have no idea how this game works, and a half dozen people have tried to help you. you try to calculate away FACTS that they are telling you. you are beyond help. why do you even ask?

celphi. I believe you have a few issues. you don't understand server dynamics at all. you don't understand technology, production, governments, organized warfare. I believe you got beat by a CI on a war and want to blame the strategy rather then your poor play.

please know that we were all new once. that's not a crime. if you want to learn to play well the best way to do so is to join an alliance and to take their advice.

but I did some basic math just to show you how crap an indy is. Ignore costs(which you don't understand). Let's just look at basic netgaining. Or the ability to gain networth per acre of various strategies.

so first, commie indy:

so the math behind their netgaining is. 1.8 turrets/acre. x1.85 assuming good tech and commie bonus(150% tech+35% commie) x50k acres x83.3 turns/day. 13890000 turrets x $150(per turret price) = $2.08b /1.1(original loss when converting to cash) /1.1(loss when converting to bushels) = $1.69B/day

a republic casher with comparable tech will produce about $40m/turn or $3.13B/day after market costs.

even a dict farmer will outproduce a commie on a strict acre to acre. a dict with 50k farms and almost full tech should produce 5.3 bushels/acre x2.2(tech) x83.3 turns/day x$38/bushel= $1.85 B/day.

Not accurate at all 'The Cloaked'. Again, where are people dreaming up these bizarre conclusions? Where do I ever mention in any posts that I warred with a CI? Is that an assumption?

I'm not new to the game and I think I've stated this three times. I may be new to the forums, yes, but I'm not new to the game. I played this game back when it was in its infancy. Fact: the game has changed quite a bit since then, but, I certainly wouldn't go so far as to say I'm new.

I do appreciate the math you did. That's what I like to see and use. So, I'll look at what you said very thoroughly tomorrow. I'm off to bed! It's been a long day for me. I'm uncertain with the #s with a casher, but I did look into dict farmer on a smaller scale.

You can't really compare a dictator with same acres and same amount of tech because if you start them both off with nothing it will take the commie a shorter time to achieve max tech than for a dictator. I totally agree if both had the same stats in the middle game, the dictator farmer outproduces for sure; but, the problem is, they will not have the same. The commie will always have more quicker. (Near max tech quicker, attacking larger targets (resulting in more land), (faster construction on that land <no construction penalty>)

But again- im going to thoroughly look into how long it would take a dict farmer to reach the scenario you mentioned vs the commie reaching the scenario you presented for that govt. I'm quite certain, but, I may be wrong, that the commie should get to that goal much quicker, thus making more. But we shall see.


side note: I don't know why you keep saying I don't understand costs. I'm #1 in tourney. Don't you think someone in top 10 realizes costs vs those who are just stocking their profits into bushels? I get it. I just prefer not to be a target. I think there's a way to stay #1 the entire set. But that's what this game is all about... one person's idea vs another.

Trust me- I recognize both strats and I'm experimenting with both. In FFA I could move to 2.5 mil net which is easily #1 right now. The current #1 isn't even 1/2 that number.

In tourney I'm hovering around top 2-3 sometimes #1, and I see the price of a costly military. I get both strategies.