12m NW
6.5M TROOPS
4.5M TURRETS
500K TANKS
50 SPAL

STILL DEAD IN UNDER 60 SECONDS!!!

What's the point in stocking for late set war if it's impossible to use it?

I understand there was an abundance of actual hitters. But still... I was in one server using turns, my alerts go off, by the time I change servers I'm dead, 10 seconds later I get a text saying "I tried to text you but you were dead before I could hit send"....


Until they fix this, this will be my last war.... It's depressing to put in so much time in, then not even be able to wall... Walling was one of the main factors in war that I thought made war fun... But in this kind of warring it's not fun at all...

First hit...
May 05/15 1:07:07 AM

Kill Shot...
May 05/15 1:07:35 AM

WTF!!! 28 seconds???

Having 3 clans worth of hitters to speed kill is bullfluff..

End fluff rant..

keep a tab open on servers you might have to wall on :)

I walled :)

35 seconds is more than enough time to wall.

~5 seconds then its unfair.

30 seconds def enough man!


+ theres 70 hitters

you think the game should change after 20 years?

1v70 you should be dead in less than 30.

restart!

lol

I have tried that but still does not save me. Either my phone force closes my internet or it lags from "too many" tabs being open....


Lucky....



I fully explained my situation. I did everything as fast as possible excluding the having a tab all ready open... So no, 30 seconds is not plenty of time... If everyone is on board with the under a minute kill, fine, no sweat off my balls, I just won't be in war clans any more. It's not even fun trying to hit when the target is dead after you make 5 hits or so...

Then again maybe mobile users just can't hang with the unemployed/disabled computer squatters...

I will restart... But it's my last 1a war till it's slowed down a bit.... 30s is not even enough time to fill a fa screen to send aid...

Sorry Xninja, I hear ya.... but this isn't anything new. LaF frequently gets kills on us in wars that are under 10s.

At least it takes us 3 clans to get that kind of speed. :)

or you know....you could come back to the good guys and not have to worry about it ;)

If you want to live, you need higher SPAL first and foremost. 50 SPAL is hardly enough. Carry about 100+ SPAL. Then you need at *least* 4-5 mil troops & turrets.

It takes about 3 mins for a player with 320 turns (no missiles) to kill a player.

As I've stated before in other locations: 3 mins = 180 secs, (180 secs / 10 ppl) = 18 secs.
(20 ppl = 9 secs),
(40 ppl = 4.5 secs)

These numbers require all players to be 135% MS. Again, SPAL is the most important. Why?!
5 mil troops is really 1 mil troops because of CD.
10 mil troops is really 2 mil troops because of CD.
If you take the cost with SPAL instead of the cost of holding more troops it's worth it.

I've spent hours on test server, to calculate the fastest and least number of turns to kill a player. Networth is irrelevant. Intuition would make you think a casher (with a larger population) would last a lot longer but they do not. A country with a larger population simply has more civilians die per turn per attack. Which in the end turn out to be roughly the same amount of turns. Missiles should always be used at end (if their SDI is low) (unless you can use BR) on player.

Order in which attacks should be used: GS / BR / Missiles (Though obvious, once population drop below 10 deaths per attack, BR becomes best method). (You will be basically saving 1-2 turns per attack (depending on your govt) once the population losses 5 per atk.

I know Qzjul has made an adjustment as to the attack gains made from attacks made under 1 second between each other. However, if clans made smaller groups to attack their targets, they could actually kill players faster and with fewer turns. The idea would require 3-4 man teams.

I am aware the issue is not new. I guess I should feel boss that it takes 3 clans to bring me down in 27s... But I don't... I feel abused, smacked in the face and spit on =p.

You all made me your whore.... I also was not stating that it only happens due to 3 tags hitting combined. I'm aware solo tags have done and continue to do it. I'm not trying to appear singled out. I want everyone to have a more reasonable means to defend their invested time. 30s is not it.... Or the evil 5s bullfluff.... I'm pretty sure I was there for that... And even hit when it happened... At least 1.



I have been killed pleanty fast over there. You just miss my war hits :p

The issue is I can't wall under this current state of the game. It's not fun. This is my last war under this under 60 second kills. I have more time to wall on FFA than in 1a.... Get the fluff out of here....

One final thing. It is true- that there will always be a player with a higher SPAL (SPAL breaker in a clan), however., you can severly limit the number of targets that they can pick in a day by going to at least 100+ SPAL.

Look at the history. I guarantee you were hit with CD like 40 times before any attacks were made. It's not hard to kill ( 6.5mil / 5) = apprx 1.5mil troops in under 60 secs.

And if you weaps tech was low, it would take less than that to get break. 1.5mil / 1.4 / 1.25 (if dictator is doing breaking) = roughly 850k.

First of all, walling from a phone is incredably hard to do especially with the amount of turns flying around since every was using the last amount of there of stored turns.

Second, I would like to hear ideas of how to slow the KRs with out fundamentally alter the structure of the game. Fast hit DRs have already been tried, but turned out to be unpopular.

Also, LaF has hit very quick runs as well on high end countries. Props to them. 20 secs for me to type in a number and an alert and country is dead.

except the closer you match the more civs you kill

it was fun for those who killed you :/

Now tell us how to slow it down :-P

I don't think they got me down that far . From my personal experience (usually spy heavy "excessively") spy DR kicks in pretty good. I was so mad and just refreshed to make new country I didn't take note of successful CD.

hard coded minimum attack cooldown is the best I can come up with on short notice.

and I must have stopped reading celphies post after the networth is irrelevant. the fast DR that made hitting under 1 second kill less civs was taken out a long ways back.

@RB: I guess you could record the float value of time between each attack.

So if each attack was seperated by .001 of a second (though I would have to see the #s for 50ppl hitting you) that you get 1/2 the returns.

Thus it would cause clans to split into attack groups.

How it could be calculated:
Time how long it takes 30 players to kill a player ====> Time Z (average time it took between attacks)
Any attacks made faster than Time Z would give diminished returns.

That way most effecient way to kill a player is a maximuim of 30players per KR.
To avoid the penalty for larger clans they could split this attack groups up for more than 1 target.

It doesn't start to kick in until after 40 *attempts*. So, another idea is maybe have your own clan members spy you out with Burn Oil, or something. (though this maybe an exploit of the game.)

I'll try to make a visual explanation:

(Clan A) kills (player B) in 1 minute with 600 attacks.
Averages to be 10 attacks per second.

So a solution might be, if a player is hit more than 10 attacks per second, give 1/2 returns for each attack made after the 10th attack (during that second).

The numbers above are superficial. But it's the idea that should be evaluated. The number of players hitting you should be irrelevant., it should be based on the number of attacks you recieve per second.

tldr...
but ... xninja had a really low spal. that is all. carry along :p

No you read, Vic! lol. Critique my info!

from what I scanned above celphi, it all seemed right on. lots of 1a players (including myself) underestimate just how important a high SPAL is going into war. i've brought mine up considerably in the last two days and it's paid off. those that haven't or don't have to the economy to do so, are getting owned.

weapons are also hugely important, like you said. when you can make 7m troops 9.8m just by getting 1.4 weaps, it's significant.
maxed spy is also essential, as all opponents will be maxed there as well

so i agree with all you said.

on game changes, i don't get into that stuff so i wont comment

This is just not true in comparison to my personal expeience and I have look very hard and asked many questions in regards to spy DR. You can have 500 spal and fail your 25th op on a 0 spal country......

He makes a valid point. The time investment to dieing ratio is off a lot.

Xninja., SPY ops still have an X factor built into it:

Examine the luck factor:

Luck Luck is the subtlest of the permanent bonuses. Investing in luck will lead to better explore returns, greater missile production, and lower market times. In addition, lucky countries have a greater chance of getting spy ops against countries with better spy networks and a greater chance of successfully attacking when oversendin

"lucky countries have a greater chance of getting spy ops against countries with better spy networks" - this is why a country with 0 spies can sometimes succeed against players with 100+ SPAL. With carrying a higher SPAL the objective is to prevent MOST spy attacks, not ALL. No spy op is 100%.

40 successful CD will automatically make any troop population 1/5th its size.
40 successful SR will make ANY population 1/5th its size. 500,000 population then becomes 100k.

SR is a simple formula. It divides their current population by 25. This is why it doesn't matter if you're really big or small. It still takes your population and dividies it by 25.

You basically disable a country's production significantly when their population drops to 80% of their max population. I've post this on other threads, but it takes about 80 turns to recover from 40 SR attacks. (Even with exploiting the tax rate to 70%, your production will still be garbage for at least 50 turns). (setting your tax rate to 70% causes your max population # to be lower, making it easier to achieve 80% max population). You can change the rate and click the advisor tab to see the adjustment before taking the turn.

If a country is teching 7k a turn, 40 successful SR attacks will make that country produce in 100-200 tpt for about 80 turns. That's a huge production attack, with no troops army needed.


7k x 80, that's 560k tech gone. (aka: @2500 per tech, 1.4 billion cash lost).

SR affects, farmers, cashers(obviously), even indys. I can't stress the importance of SPAL.

If you had a clan of 30 members with a greater SPAL than the oppossing clan and they each picked a separate target, and made 40 SR attacks,
you would then halt their production for 30 opposing members for 80 turns. For the cost of 40 turns every 24hrs.

And since you only get 72 turns per 24hrs, you can basically keep them on lock everyday for only 40turns.

I use to take all the facts you put up to heart.... But the more we debate about this the more I wonder. I am an avid investor in the luck bonus. I am not removing this from play. Sure it "helps"

But your wrong on a few things... SR does not have a base number, a 1,000 population country committing SR on a 10,000 population country would kill less than a 5,000 population country doing it. Same account goes into CD. For the max CD return the opper must have a certain ratio of troops in comparison to the target. And I have tested SR to cut pop in half at 30 successful at max damage.... Why those 10 ops bring it down so much further while the returns become less per op....

You just sucks at walling. You need a tissue? Nobody cares if you leave.

I'm not very educated on the production vs population so I'll let Ya have this one :-P

Seems pretty accurate in theory. But I still personally have had horrible experiences running a spy heavy country. There are several post on Q&A and B&S with my name all over it regarding my thoughts and concerns regarding their mechanics. But that's not what this thread is about. I find it hard to believe they CD me down from 6.5m to 1m before breaking. I'm thinking maybe 3-1.75m. Or somthing. Which still is not hard to speed break and kill. Which is the issue I have. What's fun about trying to save your month long country in under 60s...

I suggest delayed breaking. Make 1 hit, wait 60s then start the full onslaught. Then that special feeling of .... "are we gonna get em.. are we gonna get em" like the old days will kick in and making a kill will mean something. Killing someone knowing you gave them the chance should be more boss than seeing how fast you can kill the poor working bastard....

I curb stomp you in 1 vs 1...

I actually seen a decent amount of understanding and support hater.

I can only imagaine trying to run a warchat with 2 attack groups. One group is enough between finding targets coordination between ops, breakers, and finishers.

I don't like artificially decreating returns based on speed, I would just limit how many defends a country can take per x seconds (maybe 3). If it takes 200 defends on average for a contry to die, That would be about 10 hits per 3 seconds, 20 x 3 would be 60 seconds.

That being said, I wouldn't be in favor of this, but I would prefer it over decreasing returns and screwing up how many turns it honestly takes to kill a country.

I'm not wrong. I have the data to back my information.

To get the full static base deduction from SR you need to own 60% of your target's population. (base deduction is / 25) Which after 40 attacks is 1/5th of their population.

Country A:
Population: 101,773

Country B:
Population: 60,765

After 40SR attempts:
Country A:
Population: 23,412

=====================================================================================================
SR Attacks are below:

0.2 mins ago
b (#73) attempted to stir rebellions in your country! You killed 0 enemy spies.

0.2 mins ago
Enemy operatives caused 975 civilians to flee our lands!

0.2 mins ago
b (#73) attempted to stir rebellions in your country! You killed 0 enemy spies.

0.2 mins ago
Enemy operatives caused 1016 civilians to flee our lands!

0.2 mins ago
Enemy operatives caused 1058 civilians to flee our lands!

0.2 mins ago
Enemy operatives caused 1103 civilians to flee our lands!

0.2 mins ago
Enemy operatives caused 1148 civilians to flee our lands!

0.2 mins ago
b (#73) attempted to stir rebellions in your country! You killed 0 enemy spies.

0.2 mins ago
Enemy operatives caused 1196 civilians to flee our lands!

0.2 mins ago
Enemy operatives caused 1246 civilians to flee our lands!

0.3 mins ago
Enemy operatives caused 1298 civilians to flee our lands!

0.3 mins ago
Enemy operatives caused 1352 civilians to flee our lands!

0.3 mins ago
Enemy operatives caused 1409 civilians to flee our lands!

0.3 mins ago
Enemy operatives caused 1467 civilians to flee our lands!

0.3 mins ago
Enemy operatives caused 1528 civilians to flee our lands!

0.3 mins ago
Enemy operatives caused 1592 civilians to flee our lands!

0.3 mins ago
Enemy operatives caused 1658 civilians to flee our lands!

0.3 mins ago
Enemy operatives caused 1727 civilians to flee our lands!

0.3 mins ago
Enemy operatives caused 1799 civilians to flee our lands!

0.3 mins ago
Enemy operatives caused 1874 civilians to flee our lands!

0.3 mins ago
Enemy operatives caused 1952 civilians to flee our lands!

0.3 mins ago
Enemy operatives caused 2034 civilians to flee our lands!

0.3 mins ago
Enemy operatives caused 2118 civilians to flee our lands!

0.3 mins ago
Enemy operatives caused 2207 civilians to flee our lands!

0.3 mins ago
Enemy operatives caused 2299 civilians to flee our lands!

0.3 mins ago
Enemy operatives caused 2395 civilians to flee our lands!

0.3 mins ago
Enemy operatives caused 2494 civilians to flee our lands!

0.3 mins ago
b (#73) attempted to stir rebellions in your country! You killed 0 enemy spies.

0.3 mins ago
Enemy operatives caused 2598 civilians to flee our lands!

0.3 mins ago
Enemy operatives caused 2706 civilians to flee our lands!

0.4 mins ago
Enemy operatives caused 2819 civilians to flee our lands!

0.4 mins ago
Enemy operatives caused 2937 civilians to flee our lands!

0.4 mins ago
Enemy operatives caused 3059 civilians to flee our lands!

0.4 mins ago
Enemy operatives caused 3187 civilians to flee our lands!

0.4 mins ago
Enemy operatives caused 3319 civilians to flee our lands!

0.4 mins ago
Enemy operatives caused 3458 civilians to flee our lands!

0.4 mins ago
Enemy operatives caused 3602 civilians to flee our lands!

0.4 mins ago
Enemy operatives caused 3752 civilians to flee our lands!

0.4 mins ago
Enemy operatives caused 3908 civilians to flee our lands!

0.4 mins ago
Enemy operatives caused 4071 civilians to flee our lands!
===================================================================================================

As I've said, 1/5th. It constantly takes, each population and divides it by 25.

The same thing occurs with CD; however, fewer % troops are needed on hand. It will place your troop population to 1/5th its original size.

@RB:

When you say limit the # of hits per second, how would you do that? If 30 ppl are hitting you per second, are you going to give the *extras* an error message?

The hits still have to go through, just limit the dmg they do per second. The end result doesn't lessen the amount of time it takes to kill a player, it merely makes a bell curve on how fast you can kill one. The shorter the time, the harder it is to kill them. (However, there is no adjustment made so long as there's no more than X amount of attacks per second).

As for warchats, just make another channel. Most clans have a primary and secondary leader, just have two. /shrug.

If you think about it, this will help clans who are significantly smaller. The larger clans would still have the benefit of more turns, but the amount of firepower per second should apex at somepoint. Otherwise, once a single clan gets too big, it will be impossible to play on Alliance.

Attacks made per second:

[ Second 1 ]
Attack 1 (full dmg)
Attack 2 (full dmg)
Attack 3 (full dmg)
Attack 4
Attack 5
Attack 6
Attack 7
Attack 8
Attack 9
Attack 10 (full dmg)
Attack 11 (half dmg) <---------- after 10 attacks in a given second, reduce the dmg by 1/2
Attack 12 (half dmg)

[ second 2 ]
Attack 13 (full dmg) <---------- returns back to full dmg after the 1 second has elapsed.
Attack 14 (full dmg)
ect...
until 10 attacks
attack 24 (half dmg)

[ second 3 ]
dmg resets to full dmg.

It doesn't have to be 10. It can be 20 or 30. It all depends on what is reasonable amount of time a player should be given to respond to wall and then just calculate the average amount of hits which should be full dmg per second.

You are right about the pop/25 if meeting requirements about max damage. Apologies.

Just turn off the resend attack button, problem solved.


(Invoice sent to QZ)

That would be an immediate fix, preventing larger clans to getting fast kills; however, that would then make it significantly harder for smaller clans to get kills.

Bunch of sissy. If you're afraid of getting killed, go play marios. Or join a netting clan. I fluffing hate when people fluff when they can't log on fast enough.

Try logging into your country when captcha prevents you from walling. That's even more frustrating. :P

It was supposedly fixed but I experienced it first hand a few sets ago.

I don't think he's afraid of getting killed. He's making a legitimate argument. Walling is an important part & ability of the game. By placing no limits on the # of hits per second, you're basically diminishing an entire aspect of the game.

While there is a lot of funny stuff in this thread about the use of spyops and such it really comes down to what you expect out of a kill run. I consider 30sec kills pretty good and they will kill almost anyone unless they are at the computer with highlights on. Don't expect to get a text and wall that from your phone because often enough that won't happen. Also, a lot of the kills in this war are taking longer than that, 60sec or even a couple min.

If you're the one we're thinking of then you were demo'd and CD'd down to a 1.8mil raw break which is pretty easy for people to break fast this early in the war when stock is still everywhere.

Here's an example:
Storm in the West (#147) (LaF)

Died in 1228 hits:
Time started: May 5, 12:16
TIme ended: May 5, 12:17

So it took under 2 mins to do 1228 hits.
1228 / 120 = averages to be 10.23 hits a second. (that number would actually be higher since it took between 1-2 mins for KR) (this number is based on 2 mins)

===========================================================================================================
Example 2:
ZZ Bikini (#347) (LaF)

Died in: 440 hits:
Time started: May 5, 00:37
Time ended: May 5, 00:38
440 / 60 = 7.3 hits a second. (again, that number would be higher since this is based on 1 minute time frame)

==========================================================================================================

#147 died after 308 hits
#347 died after 220 hits

Some of what you've posted is correct, but you're making too many mistakes to be taken seriously.

[ deleted ]

too long to post.

Too long to post

[ deleted ]

Your #s are way off dude.

I used a simple linux command to count.

cat > count
copy pasted all history here

grep -o 'countrynamehere' count | wc -w