More normal? I don't see much here about them. Market more stable?

Aside from the couple things I haven't had time to do (GDI, spies, something regarding naming), should I increase (or randomize!) the number of bots? make them saay 25% of the previous reset's country total?

Looking good, but before adding more bot you need to figure out a way to slow down the absurd farming they are exposed to :-(

Hi qz! Please no additional bots! It has become a race to farm bots before anyone else can which in my opinion is kind of lame. I don't think decreasing player-player interaction is good. Although conversely, I guess more bots = more countries able to get good land.

I am not a greatly skilled player, but i find it hard to believe you can compete for a win without DR camping bots.

With that said though, the market does seem better :)

yes its changed the landscape of the game in the way you describe. look at any of that guy eberts recent countries, all he does is farm bots and now thats how you net in this server, farming bots... way less cool than attacking live players

Yeah, I tried playing a round with the bots, gave up. Just not fun now.

At the very least, bots should throw their missiles at whoever attacks them the most. Or any person at random who has attacked them more than x times.

This could be done perhaps as a sort of stopgap at least until a good retal algorithm is worked out. People will still farm bots, but they may end up eating a couple missiles for it.

Just an idea. Feel free to shoot it down at will.

The bots are a good idea. Some people will complain about any change to the game, but Express has gone through lots of changes in the last 5 years and they have made the game better. Relearning how to play the game well after a change takes some work and people are mostly content to play the same way every game and don't like work.

Regarding the farming of the bots. The winners of Express have usually been the best bottomfeeders. It takes a lot of work to be a good bottomfeeder and anyone who is willing to put in the effort to make attacks every two hours for 4 days or so deserves to do well. So now we have bots to farm, where before we had noobs who were maybe trying the game out. New players trying the game out are no longer coming in such numbers, probably because they were mercilessly farmed and never had a chance to learn how to play. So the bots are a good alternative.

Bottomfeeding bots is more work than bottomfeeding players. They have to be hit multiple times and DR is a big factor. Getting the first hits in on a bot makes a big difference. Its interesting to find strategies combining PS, SS and bomb banks to maximize your gains from the bots, but more work. There is also the added work that you need to do to identify bots, using EEstats and spyops. So my main complaint is that to win now takes a LOT of work and is more time consuming than it was.

The winners of Express have always been the people with good skills and the time to put in a lot of work, so the extra work needed to win now isn't really a big deal. Players will still complain about the people who win, and will all still say they should have had a top 10, except ...... (add excuse).

The bots seem pretty easy to adjust so I expect they will continue to improve as we make positive suggestions. For example, having fewer farmer bots last set improved the bushel market volatility problem. There wasn't a pile of bushels sitting on the market at $29 for half the set.

And the fake bot runners like KoH have put a good scare into some of the bot farmers who didn't do some research before they started farming.

Getafix,

I agree with you to a point: bots introduce more land, and perhaps prevent newbies from being hit as much, and the winners of Express are usually the best bottom feeders anyway.

But the bots sap the fun out of it, man. I walked away from this server for quite awhile because of the bots. So did currydubs. And our scores speak for themselves, we're not people that can't compete. But landfarming bots that don't fight back, being the lucky one to find a bot that just explored out or that isn't in DR, the potential to navigate through a set without attacking one real live player... that all is so sterile, so boring, so much less fun than the server used to be.

Thanks blid.

You and currydubs can compete I know. You and I have had discussions about bottomfeeding before. I have never liked it really. If Ebert for example is going to spot very single weak player and farm them, it would be better to give him a new and challenging target. And I would disagree that you have to be lucky to find a bot that has just explored; you can keep your eye on them by marking them all in EEstats and doing a quick history check periodically.

Also, the game has not become more sterile and boring. The level of fighting in the middle of the pack seems to be at an all time high. There is still the ability to gamble on the market. And if you want to all explore, you can still do that and probably do pretty well.

Maybe we switch bots on/off every other set?

http://www.eestats.com/express/country/9
ebert just keeps about 400k jets all set long and have tons of turrets to defend himself. He just attacks the bots 5 times every 2 hours for 1k acres with no fear of retals. In 24 hours he's gonna have 14-15k acres (including the ones he explored at the beginning of the set). He then stocks for the rest of the set. Its seems more like a chore to me, I dont know how you do it, ebert.

He prefers to sleep only 4 nights a week.

Start making bots obtain warfare and get missile stock to help deter massive farming, I'm sure that will solve the issue after a few people get missile dumped for excessive hitting.

Also, the bots don't make the server worse. How are they any different than noobs that can't make retals on the massive bottom feeding they endure ?

If excessive farming is really what people think is the major downfall of having bots they are just fooling them self. There are always going to be people who do massive farming, bots or not bots.

I have seen Ebert make "good" hits on player ran countries even with the bots in play....

Quick fixes for the issue would probably come down to a new humanitarian system for express. Or escalated DR.

I took my first top 10 during the bot era, while farming not a single bot.... Just a little food for thought.

Ban bottom feeding.... only allow players to middle-top feed. That ought to separate the wheat from the chaff... the winner gets an Olive wreath like in the good old days.

How about using Events as a carrot and stick?

If the players don't farm others, then they get more Positive Events. But if they do, then they get more Negative events?

And how about unifying all the Public Markets, that ought to make the Market more stable?

ding ding

Ebert has a new challenge... trying to avoid Koh the bot :-P

Hm

Well, we can definitely make the bots more defensive, and more hidden, that is part of the plan, as I've mentioned.

WRT bottomfeeding... i could increase the half-life of hits.... ?

In the war room to replace the bots there could be a button that says "Click here for 350 acres" and then you just click it and it gives you the land and then says "Click here for 300 acres" and each time you click it goes down, but 12 hours later it is back up to 350 again. Actually you d ont need to do this, its already like this because of the bots.

Bots are good for the server. the more the better imo. it actually encourages mid-top feeding by giving people fat targets.

What? Why take a risk like that when you can farm a bot

The Status of the XXXXXX BOT XXXXXXXXXXX

Old data...

FOOD CONCERN: Assuming no change, our people can survive for 49 more turns.
The Basics
Turns Left 0
Turns Taken 955
Turns Stored 0
Rank
Networth $XXXXXXX
Land XXXXXX
Money $183,626
Population 39,031
At War No
GDI Member No

Land Distribution
Enterprise Zones 297
Residences 263
Industrial Complexes 0
Military Bases 0
Research Labs 1205
Farms 23
Oil Rigs 0
Construction Sites 301
Unused Lands 2104

Technology
Military 0 100.0%
Medical 0 100.0%
Business 0 100.0%
Residential 0 100.0%
Agricultural 0 100.0%
Warfare 0 0.200%
Military Strategy 0 100.0%
Weapons 0 100.0%
Industrial 0 100.0%
Spy 0 100.0%
SDI 0 1.00%
Total 0


Current Status
Tax Revenues $229,912
Tax Rate 35%
Per Capita Income $16.83
Expenses $126,746
Net Income $103,166
Cashing $149,149
Food 31,276
Production 1108
Consumption 1742
Net Change -634
Oil 0
Production 0
Building Rate 80
Explore Rate 24
Tech Rate 267

Military Forces
Spies 0
Troops 261,043
Jets 0
Turrets 310,288
Tanks 0
Nuclear Missiles 1
Chemical Missiles 1
Cruise Missiles 0

Expense Breakdown
Expenses $126,746
Military $84,816
Spies $0
Troops $28,799
Jets $0
Turrets $56,017
Tanks $0
Alliance/GDI $0
Land $41,930
Corruption $0

Hopefully the above data answers the OPs question.

I believe they call that "the celphi"

hm i thought i got rid of the ent/res phase for tech bots

I can still all exlplore commie to top ten... so the bots don't bother me. Don't play too much but the last set 2 back or so was def a improvement with the market than the last one I played as that set when I hit 24million my turrets were selling on many instances instantly bought by bots I presume. Hardly had to work for that 24 million with things sell that fast.

I agree with the comments...the bots are better, and the more bots the better the game play imo. As someone said, if ppl were not farming bots they would be bottom feeding/farming a human player....probably someone new to the game who would not return. It is a race to find the bots, but that adds a new element to the game. In addition, one has to do a little work before farming a bot due delayed players or bot imitators. I like it....add more.

Off topic, but a better adjustment would be to reset DR to "0" on a human country that is deep into DR and top feeds another so that an opportunity for fair retaliation exists. Long overdue is the ability to recapture land that is lost to someone with excessive DR. Sorry for getting OT.

I wouldn't mind seeing an increase of bots. 1 bot for every 1 non bot be a good starting ratio, it could also solve the race to hit the bots first. Missile dumping bots be nice to for stopping massive farming from a single country.

[quote poster=h2orich; 35630; 645845]

I wish it were that easy. It is a LOT of work doing what I do. And I still have to deal with morons that top feed me. Past 3 rounds I believe I was a all setup then people retal my retals. I have enough top finishes that players should know if you do me very good probability you end up dead. Oh well haters gotta hate. Additionally I would like to say yes...vote make my netting slightly easier target wise. But it is bot like I was not winning before the bots, now with bots I really only need to worry about topfeeders which was always a problem.

Challenge for Ebert? Ball and chain perhaps? Or how about catnip while we are at it? That ought to encumber him long enough for us to win. Ebert knows how the system works, he has adapted and made full use of it. You can throw anything at Ebert, and he will adapt to it and win.

Bots are not a panacea for bottom feeding / farming or increasing our player base. If its all about adding a new element to the game, then prevent bottom feeding / farming in the first place. Don't just address the symptom, address the root of the problem. Afford better protection for the smaller/weaker players first.

in case you were wondering why that Getafix guy likes the bots........

2015-03-28 19:08:27 PS Rock Lobster (#119) Stoker Jack Blackman (#53) 192A (207A)
2015-03-28 15:34:36 PS Rock Lobster (#119) Stoker Jack Blackman (#53) 193A (211A)
2015-03-28 15:33:04 PS Rock Lobster (#119) Stoker Jack Blackman (#53) 244A (272A)
2015-03-28 13:32:26 PS Rock Lobster (#119) Sevestra Riandur (#78) 196A (289A)
2015-03-28 13:29:26 PS Rock Lobster (#119) Sevestra Riandur (#78) 231A (375A)
2015-03-28 13:28:36 PS Rock Lobster (#119) Sevestra Riandur (#78) 269A (483A)
2015-03-28 11:14:36 SS Rock Lobster (#119) Spider Boiling (#86) 86A (101A)
2015-03-28 11:14:20 SS Rock Lobster (#119) Spider Boiling (#86) 104A (130A)
2015-03-28 11:13:02 SS Rock Lobster (#119) Spider Boiling (#86) 125A (166A)
2015-03-28 11:12:19 PS Rock Lobster (#119) Spider Boiling (#86) 219A (302A)
2015-03-28 11:09:25 PS Rock Lobster (#119) Stoker Jack Blackman (#53) 187A (207A)
2015-03-28 11:07:54 PS Rock Lobster (#119) Stoker Jack Blackman (#53) 237A (271A)
2015-03-28 11:06:52 PS Rock Lobster (#119) Stoker Jack Blackman (#53) 295A (350A)
2015-03-28 07:12:50 PS Rock Lobster (#119) Sevestra Riandur (#78) 236A (401A)
2015-03-28 07:08:36 PS Rock Lobster (#119) Julius Requiem (#71) 157A (209A)
2015-03-28 07:06:49 PS Rock Lobster (#119) Julius Requiem (#71) 190A (271A)
2015-03-28 07:04:53 PS Rock Lobster (#119) Julius Requiem (#71) 225A (347A)
2015-03-28 03:02:10 PS Rock Lobster (#119) Fat Mike (#121) 284A (598A)
2015-03-28 00:20:05 PS Rock Lobster (#119) Sevestra Riandur (#78) 230A (413A)
2015-03-28 00:15:31 PS Rock Lobster (#119) Stoker Jack Blackman (#53) 261A (309A)
2015-03-28 00:13:01 PS Rock Lobster (#119) Confidential Skunk (#39) 153A (210A)
2015-03-27 22:11:05 PS Rock Lobster (#119) Halmar beneath the Riders (#63) 125A (152A)
2015-03-27 22:09:37 PS Rock Lobster (#119) Halmar beneath the Riders (#63) 160A (204A)
2015-03-27 22:08:25 PS Rock Lobster (#119) Halmar beneath the Riders (#63) 203A (274A)
2015-03-27 20:02:31 PS Rock Lobster (#119) Halmar beneath the Riders (#63) 251A (365A)
2015-03-27 20:00:39 PS Rock Lobster (#119) Halmar beneath the Riders (#63) 297A (458A)
2015-03-27 17:38:25 PS Rock Lobster (#119) Spider Boiling (#86) 134A (199A)
2015-03-27 17:36:29 PS Rock Lobster (#119) Spider Boiling (#86) 158A (252A)
2015-03-27 17:34:58 PS Rock Lobster (#119) Spider Boiling (#86) 181A (317A)
2015-03-27 15:35:17 PS Rock Lobster (#119) Stoker Jack Blackman (#53) 101A (120A)
2015-03-27 15:34:30 PS Rock Lobster (#119) Stoker Jack Blackman (#53) 135A (168A)
2015-03-27 15:32:09 PS Rock Lobster (#119) Stoker Jack Blackman (#53) 189A (244A)
2015-03-27 15:31:01 PS Rock Lobster (#119) Stoker Jack Blackman (#53) 273A (369A)
2015-03-27 15:29:33 PS Rock Lobster (#119) Stoker Jack Blackman (#53) 380A (536A)
2015-03-27 13:55:09 PS Dynamo Kiev (#68) Rock Lobster (#119) 946A (1345A)
2015-03-27 12:24:40 PS Rock Lobster (#119) Eternal Haystack (#58) 197A (235A)
2015-03-27 12:23:28 PS Rock Lobster (#119) Eternal Haystack (#58) 290A (356A)
2015-03-27 12:21:17 PS Rock Lobster (#119) The Pig (#70) 136A (231A)
2015-03-27 10:07:43 PS Rock Lobster (#119) Confidential Skunk (#39) 469A (556A)
2015-03-27 05:08:49 PS Rock Lobster (#119) Dreadbeard Roger Coldbane (#35) 88A (131A)

lmao........ this is not earth. this is sim city. seeing this makes me angry and i wihs to bottomfeed him

Top feed him then. I was going to last set before celphi lost his mind and went berserk and I had to war him.

I think its enough that the bots are a more profitable target than Noobs. If we over-protect weak players they will grow into pansies like earf and tekniques :)

qz - another suggestion (and excuse me, i haven't read through this thread fully :p ) is to get rid of the cash on hand from bots. the land is a huge advantage but it's probably the cash that people are milking from them that's been overpowered. i know some of these guys are multi tapping bots that are giving off 25m a hit. that's just nuts. and cashers bomb banking ... way too overpowered

Thats true, Vic. The first PS on a bot can give $25m, but it goes down pretty fast. With the bomb banks, there are a lot of targets around on the Saturday that pay $3.5 to $4.8m per turn bombing banks. That beats my 20% cashing bonus as a rep casher cashing $11m per turn.

i saw a guy with $500,000,000 and when i bombed banks i got like $9000??? so when i post a big score with ease dont blame it on bomb banks.

most harmful op returns are based on not only the victim's goods or military, but the opper's as well. in addition, bombing banks only destroys cash, not steal it.

a god tier player should know that.

I do know that obviously but i am getting out in front of all the cheating accusations

sure

ford you're wrong in express you gain from bombing banks and raiding food unlike other servers. #11 had 25mil bushels yesterday and I was gaining 400k a turn stealing them

you can steal food and oil on all servers. cash is "bomb banks" not "raid banks" you steal none as far as i know.

well bombing banks here unlike other servers doesn't destroy any cash but simply steals it. approx 4mil a turn if they have 1bil banked.

also other servers oil and food gets a mix of destroy and steal some. here its only steal

Erm, yeah, Bomb Banks steals cash on Express.

http://www.earthempires.com/...changes-4678?t=1287781273

guess i missed that 5 years ago.......

you seriously didnt know that?? People were talking about it right in this thread.

Thats some Jayr level stupidity there, Ford.

you agreed with me.......

lmao i didnt even see your second sentence only the first sentence. i had just posted before that that i was stelaing $9000 so of course I know it can steal