That is fine. Maybe legally he never directly cheated, just like OJ didnt kill those people, but I'm pretty sure there was a 2012 poll that named him the dirtiest coach in the game. That is enough for me lol.

That they hate us because we are so fluffing great crap doesn't flush. You can't even get that down with a plunger.

The damned Patriots are "CHEATS". Multiple instances of being caught at it, indicates a pattern. Where there is smoke, there is fire.

They need to be punished for this behavior. And it needs to come out of the owner's pocket.

Have them play all their games on the road for 2 seasons, that would cut into their revenue wouldn't it?

Cheaters need to be punished, PERIOD! I will NOT argue that point ever.

If you CHEAT, you are banned or punished heavily.

@mrford -> it's not arrogant to think that ppl hate the pats and try to get them busted for doing things others also do under the radar because the people who blew the whistle on both scanadals are the most soured sour grapey people :p I'd say it's more arrogant to think that fans don't look at things objectively merely because they're fans. my main disappointment is because they should be above that.

anyway, it's not like someone's conscience gets the better of them to bring it up; both times they've been in the news it's because someone who HATES the patriots leads the charge to make it public (former coach who left all bitterly to a division rival; the team they beat the week before after blowing 2 14-point leads telling the team the pats beat every year in the playoffs :p). it seems more more like they want to hurt the patriots than help the integrity of the league because the focus is always on trying to punish the pats not make the league a better, more fair place.

but like I said, the integrity of the league is pretty fluff and they need to update their policies so this kind of stuff doesn't happen. why don't the refs just manage their own balls?

so wistle blowers call someone out for cheating because they hate that team, not becase cheating is wrong? that isnt an aarogant view? i suppose everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

as for the refs managing the balls, i think i heard it was the mannings that initially wanted to do special fluff to their balls, and since they are NFL royalty, well, there you go. granted i heard this on sportscenter so it might be 100% wrong.

but regardless, you are suggesting that the league regulate the balls since some people cant play within the rules. that would be like not letting anyone drink because some people drink and drive lol. it would be easier to just not cheat.

you're making an incorrect comparison with your drinking and driving analogy.... why do people make such bad analogies on this forum so consistently? lol :p

a better drinking analogy would be watching your drink at the bar so no one spikes it with a roofie; most of the time it'll be fine and no one's doing anything but having end-to-end control (watching the bartender pour it; then having control over it in your hands) removes any chance that it could be altered, tampered with, or damaged in any way without you knowing. people WILL cheat -- I know that very well having both played and helped managed EE -- it's up to the league to adopt policies that close holes in order to protect the integrity of the league.

you're being a little ignorant by making the argument that because cheating is wrong you shouldn't put in additional checks to stop it from happening. relying on people to do the right thing just because it's right will always get you burned.

funny you say that Pang since the Patriots have choked as often as Manning in the playoffs every since spygate and sudden;y when they make the big game again it's because of unsportsman like conduct, I am not so gullible to believe that hte Patriots are the only team doing things like this, I'd be stupid to believe that honestly but why is it the only time the Patriots make a big push it's due in part to things like deflategate or spygate? I mean everyone knew Tom Brady liked soft balls, but we all assumed he was just talking about Gronk

...

you do realize that they've made it to the SB 2 times since spygate... right? and the AFC championship game like 5 of the 7-8 years since it happened? won the division for all those years? heh

haters gonna hate, but at least get your history correct :p

Wasn't aware I was in the presence of the analogy police! My point was still made, so it was effective. My scope was just a bit less specific. Shame your argument is so weak you have to resort to symantics.

Pretty simple. Don't cheat, and no one will blow a wistle on you, regardless of if they hate your team or if they simply have morals. Blaming the wistle blower is silly. You are doing nothing except rationalizing cheating and blaming everyone except your favorite team. You want more regulation to prevent cheating and I want people with integrity to be in charge of these teams so there is still room for legal competitive advantages. I suppose that is where we difference in our ideology.

your point wasn't made... that's why I had to parse it and reframe it for you correctly :p

you're making up arguments I'm not making -- there's no blame for the whistle blower; but to say "OMG PATRIOTS ARE THE ONLY ONES DOING THIS BECAUSE PEOPLE CALL THEM OUT!" is also a flawed argument that I was looking to deflate. and that's why there needs to be systemic changes in the way the NFL operates.

we certainly have different ideologies, yours sounds like some left wing "why can't we all get along!??!" fluff and mine is "we need to ensure that we stop this fluff from ever happening again"

it's like we've changed to opposing spectrums compared to the economic threads :p

Me wanting less regulation pretty much matches up with my ideologies on other fluff as well, not sure what you are getting at there. Has nothing to do with that hippie bullfluff you just called me and I take offence to that lol.

As for my analogy, come on man. You knew exactly what I ment. It was about regulation in general punishing everyone. Not watching footballs so nothing happens.

You are still rationalizing cheating because others do it instead of accepting that your organisation is dirty as fluff. Others may bend the rules as well but clearly not to the extent of the patriots else they would have been caught. No one ever said they were the only ones cheatimg, i have called out other teams in this VERY thread. You seem to be getting desperate enough to start making fluff up so im not sure there is a point in continuing this debate.

There are people that hate every team so even if I did give into your ludicrous spite theory it wouldn't be valid. Belicheat is the calapari of football and I hope he never wins another ring because astrixs waste ink. That view doesn't change the fact that he cheated like you are insinuating. That view is what it is because he cheated.

Known cheaters caught again.

http://www.tampabay.com/...ered-before-sb-37/2214490

Once again, I already touched on that. You are getting desperate here so I'm going to back away and let someone else argue with the Canadian about American football.

fuggin double post!

Known cheaters caught again.

stop putting words in my mouth about rationalizing cheating.

I want NO cheating and feel that your idea that we should continue to assume the best in people is straight up stupid. just like the majority of your posts on this forum...

I don't doubt the pats did this and it angers me as a long time fan.... but the solution isn't just to stone the pats it's to find ways to make the systemic changes to stop anyone from doing this kind of garbage again.

PS. your analogy was horrible, and you know it, stop being so defensive about it. #analogygate :p

If it's that important to the NFL then the refs will keep the balls after they check them. Right now they check the balls like 2 hours pre game and let the team have them again. That leaves a lot of time to 'fix' the balls how their QB likes it.

Also the current penalty in the NFL books is a 25k fine or lose a draft pick for messing with the game ball. That is the current rule so that is what the punishment should be.

If you don't like that then the rule needs changed.

Every team in the NFL is trying to get some kind of competitive advantage so I don't doubt others have done similar things.

Also belichick said in his press talk that he makes the practice balls as bad as possible for his team to practice with, no doubt he has let air out of the ball or added more air. He has manipulated air pressure before so for him to deny ever doing that is probably a lie. The guy is a cheater. End of story.

Of course the Patriots aren't the only team to have thought of this
Nor are they the only team that thought about spy gate I'm sure
BUT
They were the dumb sh@ts that got caught
So do we only punish the dumb?
Or do we tighten the rules and procedures to prevent it again?
Seems to me these cheater actions are needed so the solutions and preventative matters can be implemented .

Isn't that pretty much what Pang and crew did here to protect this game?
Seems to be working

VIVA LA PANG!!!!!

Even in sports Pang is a liberally dimwitted or a dimwit liberal.

meh I'm a buffalo fan I'm gonna hate on the Pats no matter what, and pang my history is correct, the patriots haven't won the big one since spygate, thats my point.

the best part is they lost 2x to eli fluffing manning, lol. that dude sucks.

PATRIOTS PRESS CONFERENCE RIGHT NOW BILL IS STRAIGHT UP GIVING A SCIENCE LESSON LOL!!!!

he is saying the same fluff that has been discussed in this thread and debunked by others smarter than I. the single piece of evidence that disproves his bullfluff is the Colt's balls

here comes the deny till you die.

oh, and the dozens of games played in conditions colder than 50F lol.

Ford could you provide evidence for what you just said? What did Bill just say that has been disproven?

I have been flipping back ind fourth because the UNC game is on, but i assume he is blaming the equilibrium and temperature difference from what i am catching snippets of. the 2 facts i just mentioned disprove that causing a noticeable difference between the teams balls without any science. if you want science then google can help you. something about equal conditions having the same effect on similar objects or some fluff.

HAHAHAHAHA he just made a mockery of spy gate. 'We saw what 80,000 people saw and lots of teams were doing it at the time. We were disciplined for it and it's over'

He is setting up the victim card. I think it is pathetic. Clearly you dont. We will see what happens.

Did the Patriots cheat? Yes. Will they get punished? Maybe, but I don't know if there is enough evidence to actually take away draft picks. Did the deflated balls have any impact on the game? Absolutely not. But Seattle is going to beat them next Sunday so in the end it won't really matter.

"But Seattle is going to beat them next Sunday so in the end it won't really matter."
i'm gonna hold you to this! :p

LOL did the patriots commit fraud absolutely in the way that its always fraud whenever a bank makes a mistake (Just ask the justice department or the SEC lately) . Will they be punished...In some way yes from fine to a draft pick who knows exactly. (Could be a 25k fine on organization for the equipment manager making the most over blown error in the NFL)

Will the balls be properly inflated for the Super Bowl. ABSOLUTELY!!!!! (HELL THEY WILL probably have a couple phd's certifying the PSI of each and every ball after this train wreck of a story).

Should this be a story..maybe or maybe not.

Will the Patriots win next Week... Maybe Maybe not..that is why we have the super bowl.


Should the NFL make there decision before the super bowl ABSOLUTELY SO, they can kill the story already or at least kill it before the off season.


Will ESPN bring this up for the rest of the off season and possibly next...of fluffing course...if it bleeds it leads.

superbowl should be played between the Ravens and Packers IMHO too many fluffing "rules and wrong calls" which absolutely affected the outcomes of these games this playoff season

Well I'm a Seahawks fans, so I that would only be fair to hold me to that.

But Riddler what about that terrible call that went against the Cowboys? Or that terrible call that went against the Lions? So by your logic shouldn't it be Ravens versus Lions?

There weren't any bad calls that went against the Packers, they just choked and lost the game. No rules caused the Packers to lose, the Packers inability to score touchdowns in the redzone caused the Packers to lose.

A sea chickens fan! Tell me, who was your QB before russle wilson?

Congratulations on being the NFL's newest expansion team in 2012.


Lol I'm just fluffing with you. That franchise has the largest number of bandwagon fans I have ever seen. I suppose that goes with recent success though. I do like what the organisation is doing for the fans and the culture surrounding that team though. They would be my 2nd team if that cheating fluff Carroll wasn't there.

The previous qb was the one and only clipboard Jesus ;)

But yeah Seattle does have a lot of bandwagon fans, kind of comes with the success. But also I think is because Seattle sports have been so fluffing disappointing over the years that people have kind of given up hope. Though I do find it funny that 49ers fans give Seattle crap when they are just as fairweather as they make Seattle fans out to be. I never really heard a whole lot from 49er fans before they got good this decade.

http://media.giphy.com/...a/jn1j2SvimqVt6/giphy.gif

You must have missed tje 4 SB's by montana era...

makes it even worse that their fanbase died out that much after that kind of success.

Either way the mafia controls all the outcomes anyway

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CxsXFX3tDpg


I'll just leave this here.....

just to revisit this thread ...
the general consensus on deflate gate among sports writers and nfl players and coaches has changed drastically in the last two days after Bill's press conference. just saying.
lots of hard chargers early on in this thread and now that it's becoming pretty clear what could and couldn't have happened ... i can hear crickets

(and nice share mdevol)

not sure what you are talking about, but a couple things all but prove that those balls were tampered with

-the colts balls were not deflated
-the hundreds of games the NFL has played in conditions far colder than 50F have not had this issue
-Bill lied in his first press conference about not knowing anything about the preparation of the teams balls. that isnt within his controling personality. one of his well known tactics in practice is to give the team fluffed up balls, you mean to tell me he has never spoken about PSI before given that knowlage? ok.
-Tom Brady either lied about not being able to tell the difference in the inflation of the balls or he is a terrible QB. a linebacker could tell the difference, as that is who did.

not to mention that the NFL has identified a ball boy that mishandled the balls and is being interviewed. i for sure havnt changed my tune on this stance. your team more than likely cheated, the only question is how deep did the conspiracy go.

as for mdevols vid, the balls were measured low once they were back inside and had already started equalizing. that was a pretty pathetic "experiment". there wasnt even a control lol. also, who the fugg keeps their indoor temp at 75F in the winter? if you want to you can create any conditions you want to rationalize this, but the fact is we dont know the exact variables so the math is all conjecture at this point. imo the more damning evidence are the colts balls, and the lying. regardless, we will see in a couple weeks when the investigation is finished.

Im just saying that it is PLAUSIBLE that they didn't deflate them and that nature did, as shown in the video.

we will see what the NFL finds, and until then, I will not crucify the Patriots, just like in any justice system, I would like the see the results of the investigation before the riots and looting, especially one that is very possible that no foul play was involved.

I don't know that the Colts were perhaps the ones that tampered with the balls to keep them inflated. I ask you this: How could the Colts balls NOT drop in PSI (as everybody is claiming) if simple physics and the natural occurring elements of the playing conditions say that they SHOULD have dropped?

Doesn't the nfl/teams keep something on the sidelines where each teams balls are placed? With that said, i *thought* it was something of a warmer too keep the balls from going flat. Unless i misunderstood an inside the nfl documentary i watched a few years ago.

The panthers and Vikings were warned about heating balls up on the sidelines of a below freezing game this year so I would assume heaters are not allowed. Maybe a heater on a scale smaller than what they were using. You would have to look into that.

and the ball boy they investigated stopped to use the bathroom before he went to the field, he was in the bathroom for a grand total of 90 seconds. while not totally eliminating the possibility, it makes i highly unlikely he deflated 11 balls in 90 seconds.

what i would like to see is a possible addition security footage from previous games to see if it happens regularly.

Deflating 11 balls in 90 seconds is not really out of the relm of possibilities, as it only takes a second or 2 for each and he would have had 8 or so. Count to 8 and ask yourself if you could deflate a ball in that time of your job was to be a ball boy, rushing to get finished with something illegal before anyone notices. Highly doubt if he infact did deflate those balls kn that bathrom that it was an impulse thing. Probably something practiced if this is what happened. We will see. The real question is why go to the bathroom, taking the balls into it with you. Why not piss before picking the balls up? Or after delivering them? On the flip side, the bathroom would be a perfect place for this cheating event as there are no cameras and no way to prove anything. Too many questions, not enough answers. Suppose they will come in time.

The colts balls are still the most damning part of all this.

I sometimes think your retardation is a ruse, but now seriously believe you are truly as stupid as i think you are. When the manufacturer of the balls laughs at Bill's science, that's pretty much it. Seriously though, you sound like a woman in love, you cannot see any wrong through your rose colored sunglasses. Wake the fluff up Victoria! The hammer will come down soon enough.

nice!

i agree, they defy simple laws of physics.


This study that was done on the youtube video, while 75 may be a high indoor temp, even at 70 degrees would see well over 1 PSI drop (as 75 saw a 1.8psi avg) and even assuming the Colts were at 13.5 PSI, if they dropped below 12.5 it would be violation of the rules.


As I said from the get go, I want to see hard numbers of what both teams balls were when they originally got tested and what they were at halftime and at the end of the game. Until then, this is all just NFL drumming up media hype over the superbowl during the 2 week dead period and is a non-story.

"the colts balls were legal" isn't good enough. did they drop but stay within the 12.5-13.5 range? if so, how much more did the pats balls drop in psi than the Colts? Or did the Colts balls drop ANY PSI? That would be pretty damning for sure...we are being lead to think that the Colts balls didnt drop any PSI and the pats balls dropped 2psi. Yet the very VERY basic levels of physics and air pressure and volume tell us both teams balls SHOULD have dropped in psi.

Until I see raw numbers of both teams balls, I am in the innocent until proven guilty camp.