I'm going to devote all my programs ect., to perfecting a casher strategy. So, I'll try to avoid posting any more random discoveries for now on.

I've already discovered the exact turn # in which you must have max tech %s to get the most possible population. Surprisingly, CX LAE was very close.

mind sharing this discovery with regards to the optimal tech%

getting acres early with correlating tech is important.. albeit a lot more variables come into play.

Big hint: buying tech super early is actually very bad.

Super early = in protection

are you talking a grabbing techer, because if you mean an exploring techer excess cash should always be spent

I think the topic says casher

Celphi, bug me in IRC or PM me, I can send you a link to my work on this from E2025`

shouldn't be too surprising that cx was close btw

also wtf are you talking about celphi?? this is NOT a static environment so how can you opine on buying techs? maybe qualify it by saying buying techs at normal levels.
but what if one got tech at 1000?? would it still be bad? ?????

Even at 1000 it's not worth it. You don't need a static environment to know tech is NOT worth it at 100000 each. I just used a program to determine it's not worth it at 1000 each. (Not pre-opp anyways.)

well obviously but then it's LESS 'not worth it' than say if it were at 2000 which is LESS 'not worth it' than say if it were at 3000 etc etc. i get it, but just saying

When I say not worth it, what I mean is this:

It would be like building 500 buildings with 5 BPT. When you could just build more CS and get there faster.

Same with buying tech on EXPRESS during the 1st 100 turns.

It's not worth it because, you could gain much more tech by waiting and focusing on CS/Buildings/EXPLORE and buying it later on.

Also, building straight up 60+ cs from start is bad too. All these implications are explicitly for cash starts.

i agree with that.
did you consider bonuses btw? i assume you use the first 16 for free gdi?

yeah i meant casher when i wrote techer twice

i havnt played with cash starts for a while and havnt run them in express since you could drop acres and keep private market the same size which was a huge networth boost

but in express i preferred to run tech starts anyway, being able to use 360, or maybe 450 turns at once back then makes tech starts super easy

Not yet. Trying to focus solely on the cashier strategy.

gotcha

show me the money ceplhi :/

Back in my day, if you weren't adjusting your tax rate each and every turn, you weren't playing a cash start...

The strategy is becoming apparent.

The max population formula perhaps the most important.

Population has a cap in which it can grow relative to its current population.

Population grows as so:
40
40
40
40
And so on, but as your current reaches a certain size the numbers begin to grow. Almost linear. At a rate of 3 population a turn provided you build/tech to make that happen.

So for an example: your first 60 turns to build CS means 0 population growth. Which also means your pattern of
40
40
40
40 ect will start 60 turns late., whereas the person who started early will be near 200, 203, 206 ect..

The trick is to have built enough RES to ensure each round gives you the max pop growth. You want to use the remaining amount towards food and for intermediate turns to build CS. This is why buying tech early fails. You cannot gain max population per turn and build at same time when buying tech.

Three things should spiral up:
RES/BUS (should always maintain the same #)
CS in between turns where your BPT of RES has allowed you to 'skip' a build turn.

For an example: if you build 7 res, depending on which turn, you probably will have to build another 7 to ensure your turn produces max PPP growth for the next turn. However, once your CS slowly increases building more RS per turn will allow more turns to build more CS in a row with ought having to build RES every turn. The important thing is to get the max Pop growth every turn.

So spiral: RES / BUS / CS / EXPLORE.

Once you notice that your population is not growing it's max that turn that means your CS is too small to keep up. But before that happens you will get to 'large sections of turns where you can build exclusively CS and get max population each turn. This is when you buy tech with your revenue. Buying tech is dependant of price of course and the formulas are all available to determine which one guarantees the greatest number of turns for max pop growth.

As outlined before, this isn't a sandbox situation. And at some point you will have amassed a large amount of land defenseless. Going tech sooner, will allow a player to generate income as well as smaller land mass to avoid being a land target. It is perfectly possible to achieve 40 mil net on 7500 res/bus as a demo. I've calculated the entire 1900 turns but it does not include getting attacked.

A program is at a huge advantage because it can calculate in an instant what needs to be bought to ensure max population each round.

Ensuring max population gives best results.

Revenue = PCI * tax rate * population

I'm making just under 1 mil a turn at turn 309 as a demo. I hope this helps all those who go casher start. I'm going to still play casher and tweak ideas, but I'm going to switch focus forwards this stressful test. I'll see you all on the battlefield.

Sorry for all the typos and sloppiness, I typed it from my phone. I'll go back over it again later and make it more readable. Until then time to do logic games.

what about the old cash starts, if i remember correctly, and i do almost half the time, you started building uneven amounts of bus/res with the emphasis on res from the get go.?

They are pretty strong thats how i ran that big casher u had wrote me about, the shylock i think it was? Ridiculous tech levels but as always h20 came and wrecked me.

The main con here is they take f.o.r.e.v.e.r. to run. If you come up with a quick version or competitive tech start you have my vote for greatest earther ever

yea those take forever due its basically build 1 turn of res's/ents and when you run out of money build cs's and repeat while maintaining positive bushels prod.

I've tried this method, but the problem is that at some point you lose massive amounts of turns of no population growth when you decide to play catchup with BUS BLDGS. The returns per turn is maximized when it's 50/50.

By gaining max per turn and ensuring max population per turn you gain the most possible per turn. Extra revenue is then invested into tech so long as those two factors are maximized.

In addition to the above, do not touch the cash button until your CS goal is reached.

Just like how the PCI bonus benefits most near end of set, the cash button should be used after your CS goal has been reached and you need turns to burn to build a round of buildings.

To give further insight...

Having 1000 RES on turn 10 benefits you no more than does 20 RES.

So it's better to maximize what you get from that population.

Perhaps the most important formula for cashers in regards for cash starts:

Min(BioFactor*Trunc(Round((MaxPop-CurrentPop),0)/3,0),BioFactor*Max(40,Round(0.03*(1-Taxrate)*CurrentPop),0))
where
Taxrate = tax rate as a decimal (0.00 - 0.70)
MaxPop = maximum population
CurrentPop = current population
BioFactor = 0.5 if the country is suffering from at least one bioterrorism plague, 1.00 otherwise

In other words, population grows like a snowball pushed down a hill of snow. Begins at 40 per turn (exception, 20 if plagued with bio). If you start early, you can amass a large pop.

40
40
40
43
46
49
52
55
......
400
403
406
409
......
700
703
706

The trick is trying to keep up with the max for as long as possible. To which point you can't., and you shouldn't anyways because you'd be too big w/o any defense.

But imagine you built 60 CS first...

That's
40
40
40
40
43
46
49
52

And just keep increasing those #s 60x and add them all together. That's how much population you miss out on.

And while the person with 60 CS is playing catchup with population 60 turns worth, the person who started early will have 60 turns of a larger number per turn.

So in summary, this should help explain why massive CS early for casher startups are a bad idea.

.

Goals for 40 mil net for DEMO on EXPRESS:

By turn 900 you must have:
appx.
7500 BUS
7500 RES
15.5k acres

330k tech in RES
330k tech in BUS

Cash out turns 900-1900:
Buy food under 36
Buy tech no greater than 2500

I was under the impression that a 11:10 ratio was better than 1:1 when playing casher. Maybe the formulas have changed.

Destocking makes DEMO casher > REP casher

Revenue is maximized with 10:10, I've tried it all possible methods with my program; however!, as food cost rises, the 11:10 begins to be more profitable.

So I guess if you want to be technical, it all depends on food cost.

This battle is similiar to the 35% tax rate vs 36% tax rate. Technically 34% is the best tax % than both, but after you factor in food costs, 36% is the best tax %. (If that wasn't confusing enough, if food costs are low, the default 35% tax rate is the best tax rate %.)

So would that mean that 11:10 is viable more often for a rep than a demo because of higher food costs? (6% commission)

Shouldn't be. Both have to buy food for stocking purposes, regardless.

You missed the point of the question Celphi - Reps have to pay more for food than Demos due to market commission. Does that make a difference in theoretical ideals in tax rate, building ratio, etc?

You're asking if the cost of food consumption for rep vs demo's makes a difference in tax rate, bld ratio, ect.

Short answer: yes, it can.

Basically 6% commission to food is like adding +2$.

If you're a non-demo & you buy / resell bushels on public market for same price, that's like losing $4 per bushel.

I would have to redo the math, because in one thread I calculated it all based on .05 when it should have been .03

But based on that chart, you simply add $2 to the food price to get a general idea.

it is fun watching someone struggle through the same calculations the tryhards in the community did a long time ago. i didnt get to whiteness that firsthand back then as i wasnt netting.

the key is to always think bigger. there is always another variable you are not considering.

This is the quote that I did wrong. It should be reworked with .03 and not .05

339.78 not 566.3


@30: 10193.4
@40: 13591.2
@50: 16989
@60: 20386.8
@70: 23784.6
@78: 26502.84
@79: 26842.62 <-----------
@80: 27182.4

So unless food is above $79 it's better to go 36% over 35%. (So 6% commissions really isn't going to matter when it comes to tax rate).

11:10 works well for my rep casher!

-you shouldn't touch the cash button until you hit your *land goal* and are fully built

-front-loading res makes sense for a cash start; PCI growth catches up faster than pop growth

-11:10 or even 12:10 bus:res makes sense for rep cash, depending on the food price; you can calculate the optimal ratio with a *small* bit of calculus

-for a cash start, you can also wait and hold turns and hope bus/res get on the market in your early turns; even tech at $9999 pays itself off if you grab it super early, but obviously lower is better

Are you considering this for all-x or grabbing casher? all-x has a whole ton of other optimizations in explore order