Let me pre-amble this by saying that I live in the second most densely packed area of Toronto (it's not a housing project nor is it anywhere near any housing projects). It is a middle income neighborhood next to one of the richest neighboods in the city on one side, and an area filled with $750K+ houses on the other side. The average income is above the city average and it's dominated by condos and renters. I live on a one way street that feeds into about 10 apartment towers (spaced over 3 blocks) holding at least 500 people each. At the entry to the one way street a very clever franchisee bought out a used car dealership and placed a pizza pizza which almost everyone who lives here will pass by on the way home.
Dominos apparently does not deliver to this area, even though I can see their store from my 11th story window.
Pizza hut didn't deliver here until recently even though I can see their store.
The owners of the dominos franchise complain that city improvements have killed their business. I think it's because IF YOU WON'T DELIVER TO A NEIGHBORHOOD OF TEN THOUSAND PEOPLE WHILE YOUR COMPETITION WILL YOUR BUSINESS WILL FAIL.</rant>

Thank you.

Sadly other businesses have issues because they determine delivery areas based on FSA (first three digits of postal code) which
1) are all different sizes
2) are out of date anyway, the post office doesn't really update these all that well
3) doesn't really give you a good idea of distance
4) With google maps (free), some city data (free) and excel (not free) you could *easily* make a much better delivery area an greatly improve your profits. Back in Edmonton 15 years ago one of my friends had a coop job to do this for pizza 73 (owned by pizza pizza) and literally used city data and the solver in excel to do it.

SInce pizza pizza appears to be the only chain that actually can deliver properly in this area (even if they don't have the best pizza for a chain) I think I will go buy their shares.

</rant>

<one more rant>
Funny thing about postal codes. In Ontario Provincial law says that the smallest area you can use for territories is FSA so literally if you move across the street your insurance rate can go up by 30-40%.
DERP
DERP
DERP
DERRRRRRRRRRRRPING DONKEY
</rant>

pizza 73 is *now* owned by pizza pizza, though I don't think it was 15 years ago, correct?

Also, I didn't know that about insurance rates. Where can I find where's the cheapest place for insurance? =D

And you're right, i just looked up the T6H area... http://www.canadapost.ca/...addrm/hh/maps/lcw/T6H.pdf

It's huge! goes from southgate to terwillegar.


And yea, it wouldn't make sense to deliver to parts of that for the pizza 73 that is just on gateway... but they've got to be the ones delivering here, it's usually pretty quick.

Can't say I've ever ordered dominos; there's a little ceasars within walking distance, but I hate their pizza's...

There's also a Panago pretty close, but they're too expensive =( Good Pizza though. 2x as much as pizza 73 though...

that is seriously sad....

we had a place like here (note i said had) that wouldnt deliver more than 3 blocks from their store yet they were in one of the most populated areas of town....

the man that owned justified it by saying "it cost him too much money to deliver further out than that"

and people like are allowed to own businesses why and or how?

i wonder if pizza pizza is the same as little ceasars here in us....?

FSA's can be huge, or they can be small. You can actually look them up on google maps now.
FOr fun try the following ones:
M6C AND L3Z VS N2L VS P0P

Alberta is different. In alberta there are only two territories allowed: "Edmonton and Calgary" and the rest of the province. Alberta is seriously retarded when it comes to regulating auto. Worse than Ontario. In effect good drivers pay more so new drivers and unsafe drivers pay less. It's because some politicians kids were charged a lot for auto insurance. They also don't allow gender to factor in. After losing in the Supreme court (it's not discrimination when there is factual evidence supporting it), someone important successfully lobbied the government to change the rules.
Also there's no way that Red Deer is the same as Grand Prarie when it comes to collision rates.
Also if I commute to Edmonton from a small town I pay less insurance than if I live in Edmonton. How does that make sense at all...
Auto rate regulation is provincial fyi and unlke the rest of the world which is trending towards going away from rate regulation, Alberta and Ontario are going the opposite way...

"and people like are allowed to own businesses why and or how? "
Anyone with money/funding who follows the law can own their own business. Being good/smart about it isn't a requirement. Sadly a good portion of small business owners aren't good at the business portion of it (not saying it's easy) and when they run into trouble they blame everything else for their woes.
Perfect example: The city spent a lot of money revitalizing a nearby neighborhood. Streetscaped it, improved traffic flow, (actually added parking) and increased pedestrian traffic and transit reliability. And yet certain business owners complained non-stop about it ruining their business. When your business model relies on people driving for over an hour to come shop at your tiny store and you hold the locals in contempt as "riffraff" or whatever why do you think your business fails. Seriously. And yet the better run businesses around here are always overcrowded on weekends. One ice cream store has lineups of 30 minutes + on weekends in the summer for example.

Corporate policy doesnt allow them to deliver past certain FSA's away from the store. It isnt the local guy it is the corporate policy that mandates that to ensure "speedy" delivery. Is it dumb? In some cases, yes. In a lot of cases? No. It is what it is. If you can see he store and want the pizza, walk your lazy ass the few blocks and get it. It isnt that difficult of a concept.

location stuff is a fluffing pain. days and days of headaches when I had to look at distances between observations for a research project. though maybe simpler in this case o.O

In the final analysis, pizza delivery services are motivated by tips for the delivery drivers. If the people in a given area tip poorly, or not at all, the delivery drivers will try to avoid being the one selected to deliver that pizza.

Trust me on this, when I was in High School, I worked as a pizza delivery driver/coordinator for a large pizza joint in the Philadelphia area. There were places close by where the driver's would not want to deliver because the tips were so bad, funny, they revolved around universities and colleges in the area.

Whenever a delivery call came in from Widener college, the driver asked to do that run, would make sure that the dispatcher knew that they didn't want any more to there when the next call came in, eventually, the people answering the phones would turn down business in that area because of the difficulty in getting a deliver driver to "like" taking that delivery.

Pizza delivery drivers make their money off the tips, nothing else, just the tips. If you tip well, you'll get good service, if you tip crappy, you'll get the cold pizze at the end of the multi-stop run, even if your address would normally be first on the list.

No. Why blame the customer for corporate incompetence?? NExt you'll tell me that it's my fault I have to spend hours on the phone to get my cable fixed (I didn't like that either and went to an alternative). It doesn't actually ensure speedy delivery at all. A simple map/spreadsheet will prove this to you. It's called using the cheapest solution which isn't necessarily the best. It's also based on general ignorance of the people in charge. Fyi many stores are a lot smarter than that (such as Walmart and many prevalent grocery stores). Loblahs (large grocery chain here) bases delivery on distance. Many smaller restaurants base delivery zones on distance as well (the cut offs are streets not FSA's) and *that* is based on maximum delivery time.
It It also has little to do with corporate policy anyway (I asked). Besides, I'm want the convenience and am willing to pay for it. That's what capitalism is all about. I'm the consumer. If I can't get what I am willing to pay from one company I will go to the competition if they will. Hence pizza pizza and now pizza hut (which is further away than dominos) get my business and dominos doesn't.


In most cases FSA is a poor choice because it doesn't have anything to do with any kind of logical boundaries rather where they could place post offices.

Businesses exist to maximize profits. Pissing off customers is not the way to do it. We don't exist to appease them.. that would be fascism.

i have lived in four houses in the same area, dm/ym, and every house i moved to, seven minute walks away from one another, they have all had different postal codes

750k? slumming it, are you?

in my day to day life, in the city of toronto, i end up calling a great number of things fascism.

Umm, if you can see two pizza places out your window may be you could go down in the elevator and walk there?

Yeah, and Sarah Palin could have walked to Russia for her pizza!

;)

but we can't rant and rave about the injustices to AT if we did that!!!!!

That's a skinny-person solution, and we all know Canadians are the fattest people on Earf

Major, no Pizza Pizza is not the same as Little Caesars in the US. Little Caesars is prohibited from using their "Pizza! Pizza!" slogan in Canada where they operate and compete with Pizza Pizza.

It's not an injustice, it's just stupidity..which is really my point here. I'm not particularly loyal to brands so I will gladly go to the competition in a heartbeat if I'm unsatisfied.

From my window I can see things that would be an hour+ walk away. Dominos is about a 15 min walk. If I want delivery pizza why should I suck it up. There are plenty of places that will gladly take my money and deliver to my door.

And yes I tip generously for good delivery service (always with cash, not added on to cc payment)

Braden: but were the first 3 letters of the postal code the same?:P

And yeah, little ceasars and pizzapizza got into a big legal fight over the use of "pizza pizza".
Pizza pizza is probably the most successful pizza chain in Canada now, partly because they *are* smarter about delivery and locating stores.

also, folks that like pizza hut/dominos pizza over local pizza places have terrible taste in pizza and should feel bad

Why are you trying to order from Dominos?!

Cat fact lovers should feel bad.

As for why dominos? because house guests voted for it.

I used to live in Toronto in the 80's and all I remember is 967, 11, 11 :) That silly tune is still stuck in my head

In ottawa in the 90's it was 767 11 11 lol... also got stuck in my head...

And you didn't throw them out?

Is it me, or has martain spent a bunch of time ranting about pizza delivery service?

On a side note, watching MLB.TV now, dominoes commercials between innings galore.

404-tra-lala: papa john's for georgia tech

lots of papa johns' franchises finagle their way into (xxx)xxx-papa numbers as well :P

also damn you martian. i had pizza for lunch, and now i want it again.

You might be American. Instead of ordering food at any of the 'plenty of places that would deliver to his door', he'd much rather complain that sub-standard food isn't being delivered to his door.

Just checked the the guys, we've decided to make you an honorary 'Merican. Make us proud!

Let me pre-amble this by saying I didn't read any of your post, but that doesn't stop me from giving you some advice... Don't buy dominos you pot head!

FATTY!!!

Dominoes "pan pizza" is decent enough for mass chain pizza.

Domino's is a joke, an insult to pizzas in it of itselft, shame on you, lil green dude from the red planet!

thank you, angel1 :)

@***** err I mean cat facts..
Except that the Chinese food I get delivered here is probably better than 90% of what passes for "Chinese food" in many places in the US so your argument is invalid as predicted by batman riding adamwest on an elephant.

And yes... because I promised I wouldn't talk about spleen worship as much..:P

im curious to know where you get your chinese food from

Chinese restaurants of course:P

I also from time to time get the "fake" Chinese food of General Tso's chicken and chicken balls :P

Fact: Martian hasn't tried 90% of what we call "Chinese food" in many places in the US. His opinion is invalid.

@Requiem: I've had a large enough random sample both in terms of geography and quantity to form an opinion and a confidence interval.

I just realized the irony of having "cat facts" and "Chinese food" in the same post.. (sorry couldn't resist :P)

and even if I hadn't my opinion is still valid because opinions don't have to be based on facts.. especially not cat facts.

I didn't read most of this thread, but:

Pizza Pizza is freaking awful. there's a reason they really don't operate in BC. we don't like eating cardboard smeared in ketchup.

to the americans: Dominos is garbage. But compared to pizza pizza it's fine dining.

and

In Victoria I live in a small suburb that's considered out of town. I get delivery coverage from all the major chains and a half dozen independent pizza places. One panago closed for renos near me so for two years I was covered by one a 20 minute drive away(just googled, it really is 12-16kms depending on route). And never that soggy end-of-run stuff that people complain about. I tip well and it always arrives steaming.

Having travelled widely to many small towns I have found chinese restaurants everywhere, with the same pork fried rice and wonton soup all across North America. I have long thought that they are a fifth column waiting for the invasion over the North pole.

Lol that's some fail right there. Canada ftl

Fact:

stay away from me!!

Should come down to Houston, got some great chinese food here. Half the time, wife and I are only non-chinese people in the place.

Whats Canada ?

American Pizza Chains Ranked: Papa Johns > Pizza Hut> Dominos > Little Caesars

Though I might change the top two rankings as I have yet to fully assess how Pizza Hut's new crust changes things. To be honest, when you're ordering from a large chain, you do sacrifice some quality. However, they usually don't cost as much as a local restaurant/chain and there is consistency in the pizza. Papa Johns, Pizza Hut, and Dominos all make a fine pizza for a large delivery chain. Little Caesars only charges $5, so you get what you pay for.

Oh and if you haven't had Dominos since they changed their recipe in 2010, then you should give them another try and base your opinion on the new recipe.

Nobody even comes close to Domino's cost per unit deliciousness.

what happened to my post about hells pizza???? :(

Fact: martian is right and cat facts is.... dinner. Meow!

scode: nothing was deleted on this thread so either you posted it somewhere else or it's there and you missed it:P

Requiem is wise:P

Papa Johns > Pizza Hut> Dominos > Little Caesars
I agree completely.
Sadly there is no Papa Johns in Canada but last time we were in Florida we ordered it to the hotel:P. Pizza Hut's stuffed crust is good.
For Canada I would have to say (for quality, not service speed or cost/quality)
Pizza Hut > Pizza Nova > Pizza pizza > Dominos> Little Caesars.