Well those stats are for earth2025, not earthempires ;)

top 10 indy's !

nice.. now sell me more jets please. DISCOUNTED RATES please.

:)

No don't sell any jets to anyone.... Just use them on everyone, and they'll be out of luck. Lol

why would an indy sell any jets anyway? use all the jets you need, and sell turrets for income.

This way, people that you hit cant retal because there isnt much jets on the market. People looking to topfeed also will difficulty in finding jets.

Therefore jets should always command a much higher price than turrets.

More efficient to sell max mil of all types at every sale point, unless circumstances dictate otherwise.

good idea, I'll sell jets on private market from now on... lol

Yeah. wow h2o.

economics 101.

lol in no way do the jets and turrets graph show that.
they started high, leveled a bit - actually fell until day 6, and then had another climb.
the other set i played a week or two of primary, by no means did jets and turrets start out so pricey.

this is why you see commies benefiting early and expect to see prices fall.
it's the truth of it all

You can control what your "max mil of all types" is by changing your production. If at the start of your turns, you tweak your production such that you only produce just enough jets for all your PS needs, then your "max jets to sell" is 0.

Right after grabbing, switching it to all turrets production, and then building your stuff, cashing, etc, you would both maximize your defenses for the day, and your "max turrets to sell" is still the same number of units than if you split it 50/50 to jets and turrets.

Granted, this isn't profit maximizing since jets do tend to be higher priced than turrets (and that turrets cost more to upkeep than jets) - but I would assume this is what h2o meant. Sacrifice a little bit of income, but log out with a higher defense, and make it harder to get topfed.

Xin you are so cool all you care about is the truth and i love that about you.
you never let what happens in game or what has happened in game change that.
i look up to you!

and blid - jets have ranged from 140ish to 150 for the last 8 days. as a result, commies started to enjoy the economic benefit as early as 5 days ago, allowing them to achieve relative economy of scale, which is exactly why they came up into the t10 in the last few days.

again, production should rise at a faster pace than demand, which is also rising, and prices should fall a bit, and economic benefits of each relative strat should level.

That would be true Xin if the demand/supply for jets/turrets was the same or close.

Also take in account on given extremes Theo's can buy Jets much cheaper than Turrets off their private.

Like explain Express where Jets are commonly a lot cheaper than turrets.

I could be wrong but you only need enough Jets to get your grabs done whilst there really isn't a target for defense. Do you get skimp on defense? Do you get 1:1? Do you go insane and get much more than people around you?

When you mean tend, do you just mean the grabbing phase?

After the grabbing phase Jets will be cheaper than Turrets as people stop grabbing and don't need Jets.

I don't know what you're talking about... if you're limited to selling 33% of a type of good and sell turrets only, you can't sell as much quantity as you could selling jets/turrets both.

ex: You have 2m jets/2m turrets, and send all the jets out on PS. You can make 500k more units let's say in your remaining turns. If you made those as jets, you could sell all 500k of them. (500k/2.5m < .33) You could also still sell 660k turrets (660k/2m = .33). Total sales = 500k jets + 660k turrets = 1,160k units. If you don't make jets and go 100% turrets, you have no jets at home to sell. Your turret count increases from 2m to 2.5m, and 33% of 2.5m = 825k. So you can sell vastly more units if you are willing to sell jets. 1160k vs 825k is 40% more.

it's the same only if you "need" the extra 335k turrets you'd hold in the turret scenario. but no "correct" amount of defense really exists... i guess one could say then why did you have those extra turrets in the first place, if you were gonna sell them...? i suppose. so i guess what you're saying then makes sense afterall haha

It's all about how much you think you can get away with selling. And how low your D will be after. Sometimes you gotta go all turret, sometimes you can go jets to sell more units. If you were bottom feeding you got nothing to worry about, but what if you're running from a Retal. It all depends on what's happening that day. Maybe you logged in twice and sold twice??? :-)

I don't think a CI will log out with max jets and turrets on the market.. that's far too risky.. I Always just draft jets for my pses then run turns on 100 percent turrets then sell max turrets.. safer this way.

Frequently when my jets return from PS, I will sell max of turrets and jets (all mil), as this gets you more cash than just selling my turrets would. It also drops me in nw making my turns cheaper to run and opening lower bottom feed targets. That's what I meant by it being more efficient.

Yup. I usually do the same h2o, but afaik is also very correct. If your grabbing schedule can work that in, its almost like having double income that day to buy more tech.

2014-01-26 04:20:09 PS wo hou xiang ni (#83) Marinejegerkommandoen (#163) 3329A (4745A)

Lame

It is lame but that is part of the danger that comes from being landfat. There's some other fat players whose country names I won't mention but I've been wondering if something like this would happen. It sucks though especially to get hit by some landthin country like that so you can't even recoup much of your losses.

if i didnt go to war with 3 idiots early set, i'd have dragged this prick #83 into a war. such a prick move. must've learned it from croatia & co.

this was already brought up buy the main players stony and they say go for the double tap and get your land back.

what was brought up? the 3 idiots? i didnt see the post... >.<

anyways, i'd rather just screw up their sets since i'm not sure if i would've been able to finish this set anyway. :D

Topfeeding was brought up and the consensus is its ok to hit multiple times to get your land back.

its really not ok. you dbl tap to get your land back yea, but then you open yourself up. which will ruin your set. :(

Technically it's ok to do whatever the heck you want. TF, RoR, multiple retals, farming, etc. It's just a matter of living w/ the consequences of your action.

that's always the risk of it I guess but like blid said, "Would you really war a guy who hits till he gets his land back?"

Depends how your sets going I guess, I dont condon topfeeding and I usually war over it, but that's just me.

yo LATC :D

blid, there are 3 reasons that i can see for a topfeed.

1) player of topfeeding country is looking for a war.

2) player of topfeeding country is new and doesnt understand/know about the unspoken rules like topfeeding is a no no.

3) player of topfeeding country is croatia.

so either way, you dbl tap for you land back and you'll go into war. even if you dont go to war, you've already wasted an entire day's turn and resources to take back and rebuild what you already had. you will also have to buy up tanks to prevent being ABed. :D

3) player of topfeeding country is croatia.

146 is Croatia.... so an imposter?

this is a solid reason..... and my personal favourite, offending country will DH till the cows come home just to see your country burn. Last time I ran a tyranny on express I had a good shot at breaking the NW record and he DH 2.6 million tanks over the course of 82 lemmings or some fluff like that.

I laughed at him the whole time while he tried to say I shouldn't have multi tapped him. Was unfortunate shortly after they tightened up the humanitarians....

Do you actually think that the guy was topfed because he was the fattest in the top 25?
Those moves are rarely ever to 'gain land' its mostly a move to piss someone off.

There is a big difference between a midfeed where the retal is the risk, or a topfeed where ghost acres are the 'land trade' and a topfeed made by someone 1/3 of the land size...

cable, i gave you three reasons and you chose the blatantly obvious wrong one... whats wrong with you man!? lol

and to make things worse, the example you gave... is it actually a 'reason' for topfeeding?

get some sleep man... i think you need it... :P

It amazes me the players who think it's okay to topfeed, but if the victim of the topfeed hits back more than once, it's "crossing the line." I've told people hey, you started this by attacking me, I'm just getting my land back, and they still sometimes throw a fit saying it's never okay to hit more than once or some such nonsense. Of course you risk a war when you hit back more than once (as they risk being hit back more than once when they topfeed) but it's just funny to me when the topfeeder is acting all shocked and violated.

On the other hand, I've convinced someone that getting back my land was fair and he let it go. And I think I've convinced some people that topfeeding can be just a fluffty thing to do.

I usually hit back more than once because I've played so many times now that I care more about not taking crap from people than I do about my country. Usually anyway.

But avoiding topfeeders and CROATIA is part of the minefield you've gotta navigate in this game. Not everyone is good/smart annoying as it is, and I've had a couple rounds taken down by people that just grab me because I have the most land on their scores page.

Option 1 on st0ny's list, that the person is looking for a war, is the worst. Because then there's nothing you can do, some fluffer has just decided to ruin your reset because he's an ass. Judging by this guy's attack history though I think he's just not very good at gaining land regularly. Too lazy to attack a lot or something so he's trying another way. :/

It's not that it's an unwritten rule to not topfeed, it's just USUALLY not worth it due to rebuilding/military losses/retal land losses. However Croatia and Bibigon both do it strategically. They are always low land, high tech and make only a few TF's all set for a lot of land. Because of their low land and high warfare and/or tank count, most people will only retal once since it just isn't worth it to keep going. And so because after one retal they net 2-3k+ acres while hurting a top country, it's worth it for them. It's not a winning strat and I wouldn't encourage anyone to do it, but its somewhat efficient.

Croatia and Bibigon always end up in a war or finishing 50th so yeah it's not a winning strat.

need a def ally.. my current ally dropped off the world or something.



Send me a message will ya.

Another topfeed or two today looks like.
NX01 and Population

Man wth, Population wasn't even fat.

I don't think the hit on NX01 counts exactly because I'm sure BiBi will try to not get retaled. Although he does have a lot less land than his target so in a way I guess it sort of counts.

Anyone whos hits anyone unprevoked in the top 25 is topfeeding in my view. Weather your 1st hitting 25 or 25 hitting 1st, being land thin just makes you douche. My solution to this is grow and take your retal later in the set, when its more lucrative to make the grab. People do it all the time on express why not do it here? I personally try to stick to a 72 hour policy but being top feed by a thinner country ill wait two weeks and make my retal one of my last hits before stocking and raising 100% defense.

Yeah I retaled RR late because when he hit me he had like 6k land or something, then he fluffed at me for taking a late retal and hit back. But that's RR and he's a cretin. I think that's the right way to go about getting back a low-land player who hits you, and that's coming from someone who also usually tries to retal promptly, like you do.

I usually don't consider hits like BiBi's a topfeed only because if the target literally is incapable of making a retal, then how is that not just a grab? It's like a bottom feed except on a decent country. Now, in this case BiBi has so little land that if NX01 *could* retal it'd still suck, and that's what makes it kinda bad, but I don't know if he could retal anyway.

I agree with Blid on this one, but I have inside knowledge of the situation.....

Side note im not in the top 25 today because I left cash on hand to keep my humanitarian issues proventing me from making easy grabs. But I have a fairly sized amount of land and if I NX01 I would wait to retal knowing that I can retal retal anyone but it would be a slight pain an force me to have too have more jets then turrets.... So where is the line for topfeeding? Some say 50% NW of the top country?

The Rockman definition:
Bottom-feeding is attacking someone you think has no chance to pull off a retal
Mid-feeding is attacking someone who perhaps could retal, but you attempt to prevent it
Top-feeding is hitting someone you know can retal

Bottom feeding seems to be the only acceptable method of grabbing, but I believe that if you can pull off a topfeed then go for it. If you want to mid feed that's fine. Why does everyone get so butthurt off of a topfeed?

The country that topfed ran all jets for all his turns and didnt even sell anything after word to run his turns the next day. He has less built land than what he had before he top fed and its is going to cost 300 mil to destroy the acres he took and build them. On top of that we lost 700k units attacking each other....just doesn't make any sense for an unprovoked attacked

Some ppl don't play this game to net.. the discussion about not TFing is moot. This isn't alliance, defend your land, simple as that.

I Got carried away grabbing today, ran into easy 1331 acres on 4 PSs, I PSed away 650k jets (not bad i think) and after building I only had 19 turns to tech :/

Because 60 days is a long time for a reset, and whether you get topfed then becomes "luck of the draw" whether you finish well.

"Defend your land" is a nonsensical statement. Most sets, you personally could attack anyone in the server, right? How does "Defend your land" hold up to any scrutiny whatsoever?

Because topfeeding is just all out stupid. Here's why: You send out all your jets to make one attack, when usually you could make 3-4 attacks and capture just as much land or more. Then you get hit back and you lose a bunch of land, which includes built buildings, sometimes c-sites, which makes it really expensive and not worth it at all. The only time it IS worth it is when you have way less land than the person you're attacking. But if that's the case, then your reset already isn't going well, is it? You're already running a weak country and now you're just attacking someone's much better country and messing up their round! In a 60-day reset! And then, if they do lose a lot of land, and you messed up their round, won't they perhaps have a good reason to hit you back more than once if that's what it takes to get their land back? Then it sure as hell wasn't worth it! So in conclusion, topfeeding is just stupid.

Because let's be honest, most players with a lot of land have 50:50 jet:turret ratio or less. It's a risk you take to get more land. Just because you have a lot of land/NW it doesn't give you the privilege to not be grabbed. If TF's go on, eventually the game evolves into top players having more D but less land.

Same goes for the guy TFing, if he TF's you but can't defend his land (with turrets or against missiles/special attacks), you have every right to take it back or retal him in whatever form you want.

We may hate Bibigon/CROATIA, but we hate them because they TF and it's usually hard to get it back because they know how to defend their land.



Once again, you're only assuming people play this game to net. Some people play to grief, some ppl get excited by making monstrous attacks, some play to war. So for those who aren't playing to net, it becomes very worth it for them to TF, they're getting exactly what they want.

Also, we tell people not to stick out with a lot of land when they have low NW, but the same principle should apply for when you have a lot of NW: Don't be a juicier target than those around you, especially if you don't plan to have a lot of D. Like you said, most sets I could attack anyone in the server, but if I'm going to TF someone, I'm going to choose the fattest or easiest (preferably both) target.

Some people may play to grief but playing to grief is not an equally valid way to play.

I dont think CROATIA or Bibigon play to grief. They just play because they love the satisfaction of grabbing huge amount of acres off the potential t10 players and they cant get back their land in 1 retal. And if they retal twice, they have a huge load of missiles waiting for them which satisfy them even more.