General Questions - Earth Empires Forum

Xinhuan

Member
3728

Sep 30th 2013, 3:53:09

@qwertyh You know perfectly well what I mean. You had multiple of them for the majority of the duration of the reset. There is significant advantage to be had if you time your attacks correctly and always send out every single last jet to PS, even if it wasn't coordinated. Your allies would just be losing out more often than not, despite the occasional help they do give.

Even if you were to drop all your O-allies now, the advantage has already been gained (an extra PS a day is huge, even if only for 7 days). In this game, advantages snowball and disadvantages both snowball (spirals up, or spirals down).

qwertyh

Member
257

Sep 30th 2013, 4:19:21

Xinhuan, you are wrong on 2 accounts and right on 1 account. You are right that I have an edge.

You are wrong to assume that I PS out all of my Jets every single day. I try to leave about 20% of my jets at home. There were no more than 5 days when I had all my jets out. In addition, if you check news, there are breaks in my attacks where I didn't attack for over 24 hours.

You are also wrong to assume that I timed my attacks to use my allies' jets. I timed my hits according to whether my goods were sold and turn bonuses and my sleep.

Regarding the edge I gained through OAs, am I wrong to use OAs when the game designer put them in?
Am I wrong to use OAs in a manner that isn't offensive leeching or "coordinated"?
I would like the opinion of the game designer on this one.

qwertyh

Member
257

Sep 30th 2013, 4:22:39

And I am finished discussing this.

h2orich

Member
2245

Sep 30th 2013, 5:20:37

leaving 20 percent jets at home? lol. for what?

Xinhuan

Member
3728

Sep 30th 2013, 5:30:52

Originally posted by qwertyh:

Your arguments are flawed. Just because you didn't abuse O-allies to their maximum potential doesn't mean someone else wouldn't, nor does it mean you wouldn't do it in the future. There is no proof on our side, thus it is usually the case to assume the worst case scenario.

PaleMoon

Member
294

Sep 30th 2013, 8:24:05

Originally posted by blid:

This isn't quite how he's doing it, but, like, if me and Xin made a deal, where I'd get his jets one day, and he'd get mine the next, and on and on, wouldn't that be a mutually beneficial arrangement?

This would be co-ordination/collaboration; which would hopefully get you deleted.

Originally posted by qwertyh:

It is NOT how I am actually running my OAs or how I explained it to him.

Explain it to us then. And yes you *are* accountable to the community, it's part of *being* a community.

"imo the true issue over there is and always has been palemoon." - Vic (Mr. Clear)

La Famiglia

h2orich

Member
2245

Sep 30th 2013, 8:41:30

What if I were to do a tech start and have to coordinate with my tech start allies to have a small amount of tech in each teching category by a specific date/time in order to benefit each other from the tech start. is this considered as coordination and calls for a deletion? just wondering..

BobbyATA

Member
2367

Sep 30th 2013, 10:51:01

Originally posted by h2orich:

LOL a good question. If so I should be deleted most sets!

Grady

Member
107

Sep 30th 2013, 12:10:11

What if a group of players (from the same clan on another server) have a few countries that Commit Espionage / Bomb Banks to other top 30 players, skipping only those from their own clan?

Wouldn't that give this group a significant advantage? The truly independent countries lose 5~15m NW on average, while players from that clan lose nothing.

Moreover, some of these independent players get annoyed and war over these unprovoked ops, screwing up their race for top 30.

Is this coordination? Well.. perhaps not.

-- Haven't played Primary before, just a casual observation after reading up on past set news. --

blid

Member

EE Patron
9319

Sep 30th 2013, 12:17:23

Originally posted by Grady:

What if a group of players (from the same clan on another server) have a few countries that Commit Espionage / Bomb Banks to other top 30 players, skipping only those from their own clan?

LaF has done this, is that where you came up with this?
edit: Oh you edited your post, I see that it is.

Edited By: blid on Sep 30th 2013, 12:36:40
See Original Post

Originally posted by Mr. Titanium:

Watch your mouth boy, I have never been accused of cheating on any server nor deleted before you just did right there.

blid

Member

EE Patron
9319

Sep 30th 2013, 12:21:50

Originally posted by PaleMoon:

Originally posted by blid:

This would be co-ordination/collaboration; which would hopefully get you deleted.

Uh, that's what offensive alliances are there for. I'm glad that there's an unwritten rule against using them, because I think they're too unbalancing and open to abuse, but they are MEANT to be used for the mutual benefit of all parties - or else why have them in the game? To hurt both parties? To help one country at the expense of another? Of course not. You're meant to use them to help each other, and that's how people would be using them in my hypothetical, and that's qwertyh was using them. I wouldn't do this, offensive allies are just lame, I'm simply trying to get across that what qwertyh did isn't wrong by the game's standards, it's only wrong by ours.

Originally posted by Mr. Titanium:

Watch your mouth boy, I have never been accused of cheating on any server nor deleted before you just did right there.

blid

Member

EE Patron
9319

Sep 30th 2013, 12:42:36

Oh, and one thing to add, if everyone is so against using offensive allies even in a non-exploitative manner, then can we just get qzjul to remove them already???

Originally posted by Mr. Titanium:

Watch your mouth boy, I have never been accused of cheating on any server nor deleted before you just did right there.

PaleMoon

Member
294

Sep 30th 2013, 12:43:29

Originally posted by blid:

Oh, and one thing to add, if everyone is so against using offensive allies even in a non-exploitative manner, then can we just get qzjul to remove them already???

We've been pushing this for 2 years. Go figure :P

"imo the true issue over there is and always has been palemoon." - Vic (Mr. Clear)

La Famiglia

blid

Member

EE Patron
9319

Sep 30th 2013, 12:46:41

Hey, I've been leading the charge. :D

Originally posted by Mr. Titanium:

Watch your mouth boy, I have never been accused of cheating on any server nor deleted before you just did right there.

TDA101

Member
646

Sep 30th 2013, 12:54:48

Offensive Allies could stay if PS didn't get bonuses from them. SS+OA would be fair i think.

st0ny

Member
611

Sep 30th 2013, 13:05:40

bonus post!! :D

Originally posted by LATC:

"Don't complain. Assess & adjust."

oldman

Member
877

Sep 30th 2013, 13:08:50

I don't think anyone's implying qwertyh's cheating by using OAs. It is not against the rules if there's no coordination, but it's just generally frowned upon because we know how much benefits it can give you over someone who doesn't have OAs.

It's like gambling is a frowned-upon social activity (at least I feel that it is), but there are people who gamble anyway and it's legal in casino. Maybe a bad analogy, my bad =P

We'll likely see something being done on OA soon, or so I heard. We shall see.

blid

Member

EE Patron
9319

Sep 30th 2013, 13:56:37

I heard we'd see something done about harmful ops but that was months ago :(

Originally posted by Mr. Titanium:

Watch your mouth boy, I have never been accused of cheating on any server nor deleted before you just did right there.

h2orich

Member
2245

Sep 30th 2013, 14:07:58

Originally posted by oldman:

Dont insult gambling! :P

crest23

Member
4666

Sep 30th 2013, 15:24:00

The top guys should just hit him once a day each, by the time he has had to build and rebuild 20k acres, I doubt he will try it again. Where is that idiot Rockwoman when you need her?

The Nigerian Nightmare.

Xinhuan

Member
3728

Sep 30th 2013, 15:47:53

Rockwoman is busy running a landfarm for you guys on Alliance server. I think he's been hit about 300 times so far or something.

BobbyATA

Member
2367

Sep 30th 2013, 21:22:52

btw which country is he? #32?

eManny

Member
332

Sep 30th 2013, 21:35:33

Well I will pitch in since I started the thread (lol).

The way I see it, it is up to the devs to adjust the game in such a way that such a 'simple' exploit is impossible. I am not accusing anyone btw!!

I am not saying that he does not have an 'advantage' because it certainly looks that way (his own words!). But why not make a few changes to prevent abuse from being possible?

How about prevent Planned Strikes if you have offensive allies?
Doing SS's with 3 O allies is still stronger than PS's (but probably yields less land) but wouldn't that somewhat fix the issue?

I think that removing offensive allies alltogheter is another option too but should be restricted to particular servers such as primary maybe?

crest23

Member
4666

Oct 1st 2013, 0:52:28

Just quadruple the military OAs lose, that way we can catch Viva all the time.

The Nigerian Nightmare.

Qazulight

Member
88

Oct 1st 2013, 1:18:45

Ok, I ran offensive allies last set, maybe I should have been deleted. I would always figure the breaks for myself, and my allies and the yield. I would use their jets and mine, but would leave my tanks and troops available. I typically would only make one strike every other day, not because I needed to let my allies use my jets, rather because I needed to digest the land I took.

If I were running a Dictator and was top feeding I would think that the digestion would be even more difficult, so once every other day would be max.

It seems that if a country gets hit three in a row, the chance for a retal is reduced. It is even better if the country is in GDI and has farmed me first.

Just askin' got not offensive allies this set.

Cheers
Qazulight

Qazulight

Member
88

Oct 1st 2013, 1:48:28

Originally posted by Qazulight:

Well I just got an answer. It seems that I was guilty last set. Sorry. I got a good definition. I will use it going forward.

Cheers
Qazulight

blackknightxiv

New Member
6

Oct 1st 2013, 16:15:59

What?

Serpentor

Member
2800

Oct 1st 2013, 17:40:33

Only way you were guilty of abuse of the rules is if those 3 O allies were only running their countries specifically to let you use their jets. That's called coordinating to benefit one player. Using allies as you did is not wrong, as you were letting your allies use your jets too( only top feeding every other day). Most top players hate the O allies because they don't like getting topfed, but its a function of the game and its not illegal.

There are those who will argue that, because they want o allies removed all together. But until they do, it's a legal function of the game as long as you aren't coordinating for one players gain.

The EEVIL Empire

Serpentor

Member
2800

Oct 1st 2013, 17:43:48

I don't use O allies, because I hate logging into losses from my allies grabs, and feel bad if I PS everything away, which I usually do.

The EEVIL Empire

Serpentor

Member
2800

Oct 1st 2013, 17:47:31

Hmm side question here...

If you have 2m jets and PS away 1.5m, do your allies get to use the whole 500k, or do they only get 1/4 of your standing units(125k)?

I always thought it was the full 500k back in the day, but remember reading a description that looked the other way. Has it changed?

The EEVIL Empire

qwertyh

Member
257

Oct 1st 2013, 17:51:25

They only use 1/4 of your current ready army. So in your case, only 125k jets.

h2orich

Member
2245

Oct 1st 2013, 17:54:05

it's funny how your jets PS away for 20 hours yet your ally jets that helped in the battle gets to stay at home and ready to be used the next minute again.

Xinhuan

Member
3728

Oct 1st 2013, 20:30:03

Originally posted by qwertyh:

They only use 1/4 of your current ready army. So in your case, only 125k jets.

@Serpentor This is correct.

In fact, in the old E:2025, each unit type only came to aid (both D and O allies) if the other player had the units for that type. That is, each unit checked separately how many would assist their ally, keeping with the x2 max rule for that unit. But EE just lumps all unit types together and only checks their total offensive power.

Edited By: Xinhuan on Oct 1st 2013, 20:32:05
See Original Post

blid

Member

EE Patron
9319

Oct 1st 2013, 20:56:26

In e2025 was it only standing army or did it take it out of your whole? I seem to remember the latter but not sure, at least I remember people always sending me o alliances and asking me to keep 25% home but that wasn't really worth much if it's only 1/4 of 25%.

Originally posted by Mr. Titanium:

Watch your mouth boy, I have never been accused of cheating on any server nor deleted before you just did right there.

Serpentor

Member
2800

Oct 1st 2013, 22:48:55

Yeah that's what I remember too. But again I remembered something about it being different here, which I guess it is.

So really if all allies are using jets everyday, having O allies is pretty much useless in this game. You'd have to take turns LGing day to day or fight to use each others jets first everyday to make it sort of worth while. Not really worth it unless you're leeching really.

The EEVIL Empire

blid

Member

EE Patron
9319

Oct 1st 2013, 23:28:44

The most obvious use of offensive allies is for stretch retals

Originally posted by Mr. Titanium:

Watch your mouth boy, I have never been accused of cheating on any server nor deleted before you just did right there.

eManny

Member
332

Oct 3rd 2013, 21:56:23

Ok this is a topic switch.
Did anyone crunch the numbers on the 16 bonus point free gdi? Is that worth it?

blid

Member

EE Patron
9319

Oct 3rd 2013, 22:01:12

Always worth it in Primary!

Originally posted by Mr. Titanium:

Watch your mouth boy, I have never been accused of cheating on any server nor deleted before you just did right there.