GDI is bs. It is just a defensive mechanism for the top players. I get SS/PS farmed and land grabbed and I can't fight back with GS or AB. Who is to say what a harmful attack is. SS/PS are extremely harmful to me and I just have to take it on the chin

I would argue that if you are getting SS/PS farmed, then you aren't a top player.

Top players get there by being top players, right? Everyone begins at 100 acres at the start of the reset on even footing, how is it they got to where they are now, with nobody farming them? (Hint: Only attack players that are weak (and thus not top players) who cannot retaliate.)

This actually lends weight and meaning to the top 10 finishing countries, because otherwise, the top 10 would just be 10 somewhat random players that did not randomly get ABed and GSed.

I am not a top player. I am a mediocre player to be honest.Maybe I'll finish in the top 200 this game. I also started a week late which was a disadvantage, so no not everyone starts on an even footing. Don't get me wrong I understand land grabs are a part of the game and I agree top players are top players for a reason but I do believe I should be able to defend myself/retaliate/do justice for myself by any means necessary not be restricted by the rules of GDI. Random AB's GS's as stated at the end of your post can be just as random as random land grabs. I just find it funny that certain attacks and certain spy ops are considered "harmful" yet taking massive amounts of land/money/technology/buildings from smaller countries isn't "harmful" to them, and then to add insult to injury they are restricted in the ways they are able to retaliate. Give me a break!!! Be accountable for your actions and stop hiding behind GDI!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11111

Please note that before reset 8 (we're on reset 22 right now), the game was exactly as you described - without the GDI restrictions - GDI worked exactly like on Alliance server (being in GDI restricted attack/defending range to 50% - 200%) unless Declare War attack type was used.

And guess what, the game sucked back then. Go back and read these exact forums about 2 years back - (Before March 4th 2011 when GDI was changed) - http://forums.earthempires.com/...ed-gdi-to-the-express-one - and other posts around that time.

To see the effects of the GDI changes - http://forums.earthempires.com/...cords-updated-5-july-2013

You'll see that in the first 7 resets, getting into the top 10 was only about 30-50 mil Networth, because people were randomly being suicided back then - it was frustrating to see 2 months of work go down the drain if you were randomly ABed for no reason. Since then, it required over 80m Networth to finish top 10.

Granted, the new bonus points system was also introduced in the same reset 8, those changes also increased the maximum NWs possible.

Sucked for who? It sucks for some now. And if each method is going to suck for someone I would go with the one with less restrictions, which is the old method.

How about you come back next reset instead. This game isn't designed for players starting mid-set, or even 1 week late.

All countries play under the same exact ruleset, you should strive to make GDI work to your country's advantage (that is what all the top players are doing, is it not?), instead of complaining it is working against your country right now.

It is frustrating now to build up and get land grabbed all the time. If a country was able to build up just to suicide then that is their prerogative. I brought this up on the chat and someone said if I don't want to get land grabbed then I should be strong enough to defend myself. If a top country dosn't want to be suicided then It should be able to defend itself. As a smaller player I have learned that random attacks(landgrabs) are part of the game and I deal with it regroup and move on so larger players should learn(suicides or w.e) are part of the game deal with it and move on. FORGET GDI AND ITS STUPID RESTRICTIONS.

I have talked to other players whom feel the same way about GDI but aren't active on the forum. I find it embarressing that top players need a global defense initiative to defend themselves. I just find the new GDI system to be alittle extreme in the way people are allowed to operate and attack one another. If players don't like Ab's and GS's then get rid of them from the game all together. You say I'm complaing about GDI and I say you are complaining about suiciders Ab's and the rest. So why don't you strive build up your tanks? Why is it not even an option for me to go that route?

"If a country was able to build up just to suicide then that is their prerogative."

That is actually called griefing, and is frowned upon. GDI is designed to prevent griefing. I completely understand that this has led top players to play their countries with 0 troops and 0 tanks, and I perfectly understand that this is a problem with game mechanics.

You nailed one of my major problems with GDI right there with the 0 troops 0 tanks thing. I am not familiar with griefing. Frowned upon by who though? I thank you for your advice info but I don't agree with it all. Plus you keep referring to top players. I already said I'm not one (obviously lol). I just find it amusing that some top players, not all, feel like they can do whatever they please, landgrab as often as they like and I don't even have the OPTION to retaliate as I please. I'm not even saying I would, I don't even have the option. And then to say griefing or whatever is called is frowned upon? Maybe suicides aren't random, maybe they are players you f'ed early in the game, or maybe its fun for people to play that way just as its fun for you to net and try for top 10 finishes. If the game is only meant to be played one way then why dosn't everyone just pick a strategy and follow a spreadsheet, fun.

Well, at the end of a reset, the top 100 players are recorded and displayed in the rankings of every reset. This alone points that while it is a war-game, the main goal is still to finish as high as possible in networth, and avoiding war is the best way to do this.

If you look at the past say 10 resets, almost everyone in the top 10 is in GDI. That's really just how the game is designed - it boils down to a netting game with warring elements where players try to avoid pissing off others and thus avoid war.

Now to specifically address that point where you said you don't even have the OPTION to retaliate as you please, that is exactly THE REASON why you are attacked! The attackers KNOW they won't get retaliated by you.

Why don't people in the top 30 attack each other? Because they KNOW that attacking each other will cause retaliation, and an exchange of hits between the top players is a lose-lose scenario for both parties.

In fact, if a "top player" forgets to join GDI at the beginning of a reset, it is a wasted 2 months for him, because near the end of the reset, all the random players that are down there would simply decide to throw all their missiles at the "highest NW guy that can throw it at", because "why not"?

And then the next question is, why should the game allow random players to throw 30 missiles at you if you have never even attacked them before? Thus GDI was born.

GDI states that if you ever attacked someone more than once over the entire reset, that someone may then use any/all attack types on you: Use http://www.eestats.com/primary to plan your attacks.

Using this knowledge to your advantage, you will see that most top players avoid attacking the same player more than once over the whole reset. The ones they attack more than once, they would have to be reasonably sure they won't get attacked back, or are well-prepared for it.

As a consequence, GDI actually prevents new players from being farmed/attacked multiple times by the same country. This actually helps newer players to grow, whereas in the past, the same country would have been hit 5x in a row by the same player. After all, if you can piss off just 1 player by attacking him 5x (especially a weak player), that's better than pissing off 5 players attacking them 1x each right?

GDI can be helpful just as much as it can be harmful to you. The trick is to use it to your advantage.

"Now to specifically address that point where you said you don't even have the OPTION to retaliate as you please, that is exactly THE REASON why you are attacked! The attackers KNOW they won't get retaliated by you."

They don't know I won't they know I CAN'T under these new GDI rules.

Also what makes you think everyone that plays wants to be recorded as a top 100 player and the like. Maybe some people enjoy warring. The game isn't designed to be a netting game with warring elements its just played that way because of how GDI is set up. You should be free to do as you please in this game if I want to lob missiles at you at the end I should be able to. In the old system the "random guys down there" would probrably be out of range to attack top 50 players anyway. And if you don't want to be destroyed by missiles then build your SDI through the game. There are over 700 people in this game why should it only cater to the top 100, which I know you are apart of since you just referred to the rest of of as those random players down there like we are just a part of the game and don't enjoy playing our way just because we don't like to play the way you do and some of what we may think is fun is "frowned upon" by you. Why should I be land grabbed by someone if I never attacked them once? You aren't getting that a simple land grab isn't simple for a small country when it only has 3000 acres and gets hit for 300 acres at a clip, it can put you back a day just like getting 5 missiles shot at you could put you back a day.

The game should allow it because thats life. Not everything is just and meaningful. If you don't want to be missile attacked then build up your SDI thats why it is a part of the game to defend against missiles. "Top Players" "netters" most likely don't want to waste turns building up a missile defense so you advocate a system that totally eliminates that threat from the game

We will agree to disagree then. The Primary game is designed for players to strive to be in the top 100, as indicated by the leaderboards:

http://www.earthempires.com/primary/leaderboards

If you would like to play the game a different way, more power to you! If you would like to play the game with warring in mind, I recommend you to join the non-solo servers (Alliance and Team), where their leaderboards are more expansive and includes warring leaderboards, and players may band together to wreak havoc:

http://www.earthempires.com/...iance/leaderboards?type=0

For eg, Alliance has additional leaderboards such as Kills, Attacks, Defends, Missiles, etc.

Maybe the arrogance of the "top players" should be checked and
"random people down there" won't feel the need to launch missiles at the top players. And if you don't like it prepare for it. My arguement is the restrictions. I don't believe in them I believe in freedoms. Why stop at harmful spy ops and harmful attacks. Why not just get rid of all attacks then ", because then the "top players" couldn't expose "the random guys down there" and newbies trying to learn the game or casual players. Its slanted one way and to favor one preference of play thats all. I understand no system is perfect no game is perfect no playing style is perfect and that thee will always be a complaint somewhere thats why I advocate freedom and no restrictions.

The two of you should consider getting a room to keep your man-loving in a private place.

tyvm.

giants, try the Tournament server. It has no GDI restrictions and is exactly what you need. Come back and tell us how it goes.

So really, giants1223, what you want is the game to cater to your skill level instead of not being so lazy and figuring out how to be better. You contradict yourself many times to prove this point:



1. Why aren't you a top player? That's no excuse. Figure out what you're doing wrong or what other ppl are doing right. It took me only a few resets to finish rank 70 to rank 1 with some toying around in between. Ask top players questions.

2. "I do believe I should be able to defend myself/retaliate/do justice for myself by any means necessary". I'm sorry, last I checked this wasn't giants1223's empire, who cares if that's what you believe, the game isn't going to change just for you. You said it yourself "..because thats life. Not everything is just and meaningful."

3. Be accountable for YOUR actions and stop complaining about GDI. Who told you to get so fat relative to those around you? Who told you that you couldn't be a top player earlier? It's all by your own actions.



Until you learn to play right all ways will suck for you. W/o GDI I'll play with tanks/SDI but farm each target to the ground instead of hitting them just once. Not wasting my turns on multiple ops if I don't have to. And then you'll have no economy/production to do anything to me. What will you complain about then?



So it's frustrating for you to build an awful country and pay for it by being grabbed, but you don't think it'll be frustrating to build a perfect country for weeks and have it destroyed by some random suicider who just likes to be an @$$ who hides behind the internet? The difference is, it's easy to build an all tank country or all missile country or all spy country and then "grief" ppl. However it's impossible to netgain and protect against missiles/spies/tanks all at the same time. A determined suicider is impossible to defend against on all fronts, hence GDI.

And like I said before, GDI protects you as much as it protects top players.



Why were these ppl f'ed early in the game? Because of THEIR OWN ACTIONS. Everyone starts out on the same footing like Xin said. If you joined late, that's your problem, GDI shouldn't change because you were tardy. The game resets every 2 months anyway, so everyone starts on the same footing again.

I also open myself up to ppl during the reset because, unlike other "top players", I double tap/triple tap ppl if I deem they are weak enough to not be able to catch up to me. But I also carry tanks.



They know you can't by looking at your country setup, not just because of GDI. If I spy on someone who has sufficient jets and country setup to get enough jets to retal me I move on.

And yeah, I like to war too. But I can war and finish top 30 as I did 3 resets ago. I guarantee you if I went to war with you you'd be done after 3 days regardless of GDI. So the problem here isn't GDI, it's the way you're playing your country.

It doesn't cater to the top 100. The top 100 are just the top 100 smart ppl who figured out how to use GDI to their advantage.

"Why should I be land grabbed by someone if I never attacked them once?" Because your country sucks. Don't want to get grabbed? Do something about it. You want GDI to change so you don't need to change your stupid style of play but can in return be an @$$. You're like the homeless guy who heckles the CEO because he's rich. Well guess what, most likely he EARNED it. Get off your lazy butt and earn it.



See above, it's impossible to protect against all fronts.



Maybe you need to check your own arrogance and then you won't feel the need to complain. And if you don't like it go play SimCity. Top players EARNED their way to the top. From these complaints you sound like you don't want to put in the work to learn the game/make it to the top.

By your logic, you're saying ppl in real life should be able to murder/steal their way to success right? That way it doesn't favor one preference - that of hard work.

Giants1223, take a hard look at what you wrote and your attitude. You don't want freedom and no restrictions. What you really want is to get what you want without having to change yourself. Path of least resistance. I sincerely hope that in real life you aren't one of those ppl with an entitled attitude thinking the world owes you this and that. Life, whether it's school, job search, job, family, or a game, is about figuring out how to thrive in the existing systems already put into place. You can complain all you want about how you deserve this and that, or how you should be able to do this and that, but at the end of the day no one gives a crap. Adapt or die.

I agree with you to a degree giants. Smaller players should have the freedom to retaliate and protect themselves how they like. I liked old earth 1B for that. If a top player was a douche he'd get wacked. In fact all top players got wacked to a degree. It was a whole other skill to try to avoid the retaliations and suicides to rise to the top. Now its very easy to just run a strat without having to adapt and roll with the punches or run from an all tanker, or whatever. It was fun.

I know the netters won't like that comment, but honestly I did like the old 1B, it was fun. Not to say that I don't like how it is now either though. Because I do. It's just different server now with different rules and a different kind of fun. Not to mention its brought in more skilled players from alliance who strictly want to net. That's been fun in the competitiveness of net gaining. And as LATC said its prevented farming of smaller countries because of fear of breaking your GDI rules.

So its not better or worse, just different. Perhaps try playing tourney for a while like he said. You'd get a feel for what you are requesting there.

hmm. GDI breaks the game mechanics, allowing for no tanks, troops or SDI like Xin there stated.

What if..
For every SS/PS the retaller could to the same amount use any attack type? ie 1 PS - could be retalled with 1 AB or 1 nuke?

It would prevent "top players" from being suicided on, but would also force them to play with tanks, troops, and SDI
fixing that problem.

It would also make the "top players" accountable for their actions - which is what LATC gets at above. In quite a rant, I must say. Not at all helping the conversation or making this person who joined on July 19, 2013 feel like this is an online community worth delving into.

Primary was supposed to be the place new members are encouraged to start at - in actual fact alliance is much better. Sure you get farmed, but get smart enough to join a tag is sorta like the iq test you just have to pass.

I think a lot of people in this thread really needs to look in the mirror and read their posts again. Did I contribute? Was I just a pank? Somewhere after the 5th post here this thread goes off track and just disgusts me so much I dont even want to read those posts.

That's an interesting idea.

A LG opens your GDI up to like 5 special attacks or something.

@tulosba I actually was very nice to giants. Even went to all the trouble to explain the rationale, and the reasonings, and recommended other servers to him, explained how he should use GDI to his advantage instead of it working against him. He just didn't see it that way, and called my posts "arrogance". At no point in time did I call him names or anything like that.

He actually went to EE IRC to complain about the same issue. A couple of people explained GDI and the rationale to him (anti-suicide, and protection from farming), and he got ignored shortly after when he didn't accept the reasoning and he left.

@tulosba.. do you not agree with what I wrote.. that giants wants the easy way out? That he doesn't want to put in the effort to be better? He said over and over he wasn't a top player and insisted he wanted GDI to cater to his skill level no?

I just can't stand ppl with an entitled attitude, whether its top players or bottom players.. or the kid on the subway complaining about everything.

You don't understand what I am saying LATC. I'm not lazy I don't care about my skill level I don't feel entitled to anything I stated over and over I don't care about ranking top 10 or top 100 or whatever. I just don't want a restriction on how I play or how I can defend my country, its about principle. I don't want GDI to cater to my skill set. I don't think there should be a GDI at all. And I don't think any "Top Player" should need a Glodal Defense Initiative to defend itself, the game gives you ample tools to do so against all attacks including :random missile lobbing", And Xinhuan I truly am sorry for the arrogance comment, you were very imformative and helpful even though we may disagree I appreciate you even entertaining my post. I took frustration out on you a bit but it was mainly the "random guys down there" comment that got me because I am that guy down there lol

Giants1223, to be honest, a lot of people get stuck in the lower ranks because they are not making the most use out of their acres.

To grow effectively, you need to maximize the production value out of your land (i.e make as much $$ as you can per acre of land). For the most part, this involves specializing your country so that your country is either 90% labs (you make tech), 90% indies (you make units), 90% farms (you make food), or 45%res + 45%ent (you make cash). For the first 3 strategies (termed techers, indies and farmers respectively), you sell the excess goods you make to buy the rest.

This allows your country to specialize and invest in only the appropriate techs that raise your production (indy tech for industrialists, agriculture tech for farmers, res/bus techs for cashers). NOTE: We have a EE wiki, with some known formulas on it. Not all formulas are on it though. :)

All too often, I spy and see a country that has like 500 of every building type, and 20k of every tech, that's not maximizing your land. And if you are producing half as much or even 1/3 as much as other people are on the same amount of land, it is little wonder that "rainbow countries" are getting farmed and experience next to little growth.

A lot of these "I can't grow bigger, cannot retal" complaints comes from a lack of understanding of the underlying game mechanics and game formulas (this is a VERY heavy numbers game, most top 20 players use spreadsheets of some form).

Now, I don't know if this applies to you, but yeah. If in doubt, spy some of the larger countries and see how their countries are setup, and look at their production output, and talk to people.

In fact, many top 10 finishing countries have their profiles public, so you can view their finishing country statistics and makeup for each of the past resets. Start here for the previous reset: http://www.earthempires.com/primary/21/ranks

You can also look in the Questions and Answers forum, and possibly the Strategy Room forum as well, I answer many questions posted by people, and just reading the first page of threads can be quite enlightening.

Just to put it out there:

The world is a dangerous place and I find this new -civilized- Primary to be lacking the absolute chaos of E: 2025.

Though I understand the rationale, and I think that Primary would lose a lot of good players if we changed or removed GDI, I think I would prefer it if GDI was trashed and we went all anarchy.

also: Anarchy should be a government type. Specializing in glass cannon suiciding.

also, giants1223. You can still troll people and get revenge. But it requires you to have a good country, so you can pick a fight with someone with SSs and PSs. You could take Xinhuan's advice and do some research and work. Or you could take the easy way. Start a country in Alliance, join an alliance, and people will mentor you through the game mechanics. Honestly, it's pretty easy. That way you can come back next set and play how you want in primary, and hopefully make a few friends and join the community.

If you need alliance recommendations just pm me. Or create a thread in alliance talk.

You guys talk too much. He should go play a couple sets in Tourny and see what anarchy is really all about. After the same guy farms him into oblivion he will be begging to increase GDI protection in Primary.

Thanks Cloaked. I used to play E2025 and these are my first sets with the new server. Maybe I am just not used to how the game has changed. Thanks again Xinhuan for the advice.

Yeah, like I said in one of his other 20 threads about this. Go play Tourney. The server you want is Tourney. GDI in Tourney doesn't prevent missiles/ABs/etc.

U say.. blid.. Hmmm

You have to be 50% net or within range to hit the person though in tourney.

Well, I think he'd like that since he doesn't like being hit by bigger guys. But plus he can dec war and then it's 8x or 1/8. Or I can do the same to him and use him as farm land

I am new to the game, my sons got me to play a set ten years ago, I am back, mostly to try to get better at trading and reading sentiment, but I am getting more drawn into it.

The info I am getting here is good stuff.

I noticed that on the link to the counties posted for last set that the SPAL was between 25 and 35. It seems that a smaller country could run a higher SPAL and annoy a land grabber until he opened GDI for him.

Hum.. Maybe I ought to try that? A last day money grab...hum

Cheers
Qazulight

Yes, a smaller country can indeed do that. A few resets ago, I lost over 900k tech points to tech stealers.

The conclusion is that even if you got your SPAL to 60 or whatever, the attackers are still going to succeed with their 100+ SPAL, so there wasn't really a point in getting SPAL that high, and waste upkeep.

I have found that stealing money or tech points is not that profitable. I was thinking of something a little more sinister.

Find, say a N Indy, typically played by watching the news feed. Come in 20 hours after the last land grab steal the money he got from selling, and burn the crops.

With no money and no food his military would start leaving.

At that point he has to take some net worth losses to get back on his feet.

Do that a few days until he gets land fat then run spy ops until you fail so that he discovers who you are. At that point he should be ready to land grab again breaking GDI.

Once he breaks GDI you hit him with cruise missiles and chem weapons. No nukes, the idea is to make him a target. At some point, if you are successful he becomes the injured animal.

Cheers
Qazulight

Won't work, because you can't steal ALL his money. Even if somehow you did, he could sell 50k turrets on private or something and then take one turn to put goods back on the market. You'd have to be there right when his stuff sold for days in a row (because he can stock turns) before anything came of it. But the whole thing wouldn't work anyway since you can't clear out all his money and food.

Each steal only takes 0.3% of his remaining amount on hand. There's no way you can reduce a country to 0 money, even if you steal 1000 times.

Seems like my sinister plot shut down the forum.

Come on!

What's a little mayhem between friends?

Cheers
Qazulight

On one side, it is frustrating to get grabbed by 20 different players once, and not do anything about it. It is also easy to go down that road once you make the 'news' front page, everyone joins in like sharks, and you lose too much land.

On the other hand, you can grab a country once for 200A then have someone hit you with 10 missiles and 20 ABs because they were having a bad day "next guy that hits me will get it".

So GDI was likely invented to discourage multiple grabs on a country from the same attacker. Although it begs the question, why doesn't GDI (as was previously suggested) allow 1 special attack to be made (excluding missiles) against a landgrabber?
This way, an attacker has to at least match the tanks and troops of the person they want to grab.

I hope I make sense.

I read what I just wrote and it's a bit confusing.
I am pro-GDI for the most part, but I believe it can be tweaked a bit to be even better.

For most of the guys here that regularly finish top, you must also understand that without the 'newbies' this game will just die out. After all, having 30 players in 1A will hardly be interesting.

So there needs to be something done to address the GDI-related issues through the eyes of those that sit near the bottom as well.

P.S I'm nor bottom nor at the top if I recall my success in most of my attempts 10 or so years ago in e2025 lol.