URGENT!! ALERT!! HELP!! SAVE OUR PRIMARIES

blid

Member

EE Patron
9319

May 4th 2013, 0:33:44

Save Primary from the new changes, especially building cost change.

- It will lower scores forever, no one will be able to match old scores again
- This set, afaik pioneered a commie -> farmer strat that converted at 30k acres. That kind of creativity will be killed forever
- MBR destock will be dead as well

There's no need in Primary for any of the changes, and I know you've said separate servers COULD have separate rules. please...

Originally posted by Mr. Titanium:

Watch your mouth boy, I have never been accused of cheating on any server nor deleted before you just did right there.

BobbyATA

Member
2367

May 4th 2013, 0:46:10

agree

Magellaan

Member
533

May 4th 2013, 0:53:31

doubt they will listen :(

Not MD, fake Magellaan.

blid

Member

EE Patron
9319

May 4th 2013, 0:58:37

Yeah it's already been rolled over according to the server details page :(

I think the admins are probably a bit disappointed in us for yelling and screaming without giving the changes a chance first. But I mean... we can tell

Originally posted by Mr. Titanium:

Watch your mouth boy, I have never been accused of cheating on any server nor deleted before you just did right there.

Dibs Ludicrous

Member
6702

May 4th 2013, 1:26:39

i don't know the best way to explain to blid that both qzjul and pang are better educated than him. um, blid, you dummy. pang, qzjul pwn you. shutup beotch.

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blid

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May 4th 2013, 1:40:03

Sorry Dibs, you're not quite clued in on this one. It's not only me that's supported this.

oldman, afaik, Xinhuan, Rob, AndrewMose, BobbyATA, crest32, Serpentor, PaleMoon, metygl, h2o, OMA, Magellan, Cloaked, LATC, PaceBooM, etc etc all support this. Basically ALL the best players to ever play Primary.

Edited By: blid on May 4th 2013, 1:50:54
See Original Post

Originally posted by Mr. Titanium:

Watch your mouth boy, I have never been accused of cheating on any server nor deleted before you just did right there.

blid

Member

EE Patron
9319

May 4th 2013, 1:43:51

!!!In fact, 9 of last set's top 10 explicitly voiced support for this in my other thread. The one who didn't voice support I believe also agrees.!!! How can they do this when 100% of the top ten is against it?

Edited By: blid on May 4th 2013, 1:52:25
See Original Post

Originally posted by Mr. Titanium:

Watch your mouth boy, I have never been accused of cheating on any server nor deleted before you just did right there.

Slagpit

Administrator
Game Development
4649

May 4th 2013, 2:48:17

It's too bad that this didn't work.

afaik

Member
502

May 4th 2013, 5:56:11

blid is accuratly representing the voices of the majority of the server here slagpit - dismissing it out of hand isn't very constructive.

what you may mean, is that it's too bad the admins don't listen or consult or even play the server they make sweeping changes on... it is an example of the blind leading the very clear-sighted.

also, making changes like this but doing nothing to address the ludicrously overpowered spy op issue, shows a lack of regard for the server and people who play on it (i.e. willing to make changes - but not the changes that are needed).

seriously - the spy op thing is out of hand.

Dibs Ludicrous

Member
6702

May 4th 2013, 9:51:35

sounds like the global warming consensus. huh? blid is accurately representing something that 9 out of 10 people have already expressed on the Primary forums?

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Dibs Ludicrous

Member
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May 4th 2013, 10:01:06

9 out of the top ten players from last set, Dibs. wake up noob.
that would mean that they follow a strat to get to top 10, and are hissing a fit because they might have to take a few hours to modify their non-dynamic strat to ensure that they don't get their butts kicked out of the top 10 next set. crazy union members.

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Magellaan

Member
533

May 4th 2013, 12:53:45

I talked to zarcon on irc a while ago and it sounded like they had some good ideas on how to improve spyops. But those changes should have been given the highest priority.
It's annoying if people can so easily steal your cash and tech but it also makes warring useless. There's just no way a better player can win a war against someone who knows how to use spyops to his advantage. I tried to take advantage of this last set by betting on someone not going to war over a topfeed, but he did and then the only possible outcome is that both your sets are ruined. It may be somewhat hypocritical but in hindsight I think these game dynamics are just wrong.

Not MD, fake Magellaan.

Slagpit

Administrator
Game Development
4649

May 4th 2013, 16:55:50

I say that it's too bad that this didn't work because I originally encouraged you guys to post here about the changes that you want made. Blid even quoted me a couple of times in the original B&S post. I'm not the enemy here.

Rob

Member
1105

May 4th 2013, 19:21:04

Fully agree with blid. The changes dont improve primary. Fixing spy ops and leeching of tech and offense will help. These changes dont address any of that - but instead kill some elements of the game that work.

And for those who think the current top players in primary dont want these changes because it weakens them is delusional - the same players will still dominate the top spots regardless of the changes.

I would like to hear a concrete argument from the mods why these changes are best for primary. If its a rational argument that makes sense, im sure stating it would help us understand and accept it.

h2orich

Member
2245

May 5th 2013, 9:16:10

lets go on a strike!

Vic

Member
6543

May 5th 2013, 12:39:13

i have all the respect in the world for afaik - but is it really pioneering to convert from commie to farmer midset? :p

i'm sure afaik did it with class, though

Vic

Member
6543

May 5th 2013, 13:03:34

and i support this petition

Warster

Game Moderator
Primary, Express, Tourney, & FFA
4172

May 5th 2013, 13:28:10

no point guys, they didnt listen with FFA , they didnt listen with express, so why the hell would they listen about primary

FFA- TKO Leader
Alliance- Monsters

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blid

Member

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May 5th 2013, 14:56:59

Originally posted by Vic:

i have all the respect in the world for afaik - but is it really pioneering to convert from commie to farmer midset? :p

i'm sure afaik did it with class, though

i haven't seen it before but either way, but my point was that unorthodox strategies that involve conversions are being killed. converting at 30k land goes from $2.5b to $4b

Originally posted by Mr. Titanium:

Watch your mouth boy, I have never been accused of cheating on any server nor deleted before you just did right there.

Serpentor

Member
2800

May 5th 2013, 15:03:02

If anything at all the building cost change needs to be turfed and spy damage needs needs needs to be fixed.

With these new changes to building costs everyone suffers. Netters can now only reach 2/3 of what they previously could have, and now nobody can challenge the previous scores or raise their profile stats at all. In war some dude with no spal can level all your buildings like a knife through butter and it will almost not be worth playing anymore as rebuilding will cost too much.

Really we can get by without any further changes until they're looked at closer, but the spy damage and now the building cost change has effectively turned this server from a golden era of uber fun earth play to the sh!ts just like a few of the other crappy servers.

Edited By: Serpentor on May 5th 2013, 15:05:39. Reason: Sp
See Original Post

The EEVIL Empire

blid

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May 5th 2013, 15:54:00

Originally posted by Mr. Titanium:

Watch your mouth boy, I have never been accused of cheating on any server nor deleted before you just did right there.

grantman77

Member
73

May 5th 2013, 17:53:49

There is only ONE way to get them to listen and act. First of all-we need an email address that they WILL check. We all need to email them and let them know we will STOP voting for them in exchange for bonuses if they don't fix these issues. The reason this will work is simple: Those high vote totals show potential advertisers that they should advertise here. If we quit voting-the advertisers stop paying. If they want to keep making money they can fix these issues. I'm giving up collecting my bonuses from here out!

Serpentor

Member
2800

May 6th 2013, 0:11:08

Interesting.

I don't want to hurt the game further by screwing their advertisers because I know they are doing what they think is in the best interest of the game, but they obviously relate the "game" only to alliance server. Primary was freakin awesome. Now it's going to be lame with everyone just stockpiling for the second full month because you cannot afford to grow past the first month when you reach 40k acres. A lot of strats just became a waste of time and casher became strong.

I guess we'll truly see after this set is over.

The EEVIL Empire

blid

Member

EE Patron
9319

May 6th 2013, 0:16:06

They don't care about advertisers you guys. They're not making anything off the game or really even trying to. The bonus sites are there not for more ad revenue but only to try to grow the game. The best way to get them to listen to us is just to repeatedly and politely bring it up. And if they refuse to take our opinions into account, like it seems they are, then they are failing us, and that's all there is to say.

Edited By: blid on May 6th 2013, 0:21:03
See Original Post

Originally posted by Mr. Titanium:

Watch your mouth boy, I have never been accused of cheating on any server nor deleted before you just did right there.

crest23

Member
4666

May 6th 2013, 4:33:51

When people start taking sets off and not coming back.

The Nigerian Nightmare.

Rob

Member
1105

May 6th 2013, 7:34:35

I have to say, I am significantly less enthusiastic about this Primary set than I have ever been.

Vic

Member
6543

May 6th 2013, 12:34:42

Blid, to be frank, I don't see added conversion costs as all that bad.
Getting to a land goal very early, stocking long, and properly destocking is still something that the better players can an will do more quickly and efficiently than the others, and skill will still be rewarded.

blid

Member

EE Patron
9319

May 6th 2013, 12:36:05

Well yes, the same people will surely still finish on the top, they will just have lower scores and have less fun doing it

Originally posted by Mr. Titanium:

Watch your mouth boy, I have never been accused of cheating on any server nor deleted before you just did right there.

Vic

Member
6543

May 6th 2013, 12:36:22

This also reduces the risk of late game bullfluff topfeeds - which is another change that will benefit the best players.

Vic

Member
6543

May 6th 2013, 12:41:00

Well then we can all agree that these changes don't benefit poorer players.

As for lower scores is this certain?
How about when Xin stocked on 23k acres or so on alliance two sets ago and just destroyed everyone? Why isn't that possible here?

Vic

Member
6543

May 6th 2013, 12:42:56

Sure it's more difficult to do, but why can't someone hit 30k acres at an absurdly low turn count and beat some of the past high scores ?
Who cares if t10 scores are lower?

Vic

Member
6543

May 6th 2013, 12:44:44

If you guys are worrying about nw it seems to me more vanity than anything related to gameplay - just concerned with your game profile eh?

h2orich

Member
2245

May 6th 2013, 14:06:34

hitting 150m in the past was a big hoo hah, but now, we dont even know where we stand if we hit 100m.

BobbyATA

Member
2367

May 6th 2013, 14:28:32

There is only so much skill to hitting the cash button Vic. The way primary is set up optimal play with a non-techer is to grab until very late into the set. Grabbing is the msot fun part of the game I'd say, and probably the most skill-based.

With new changes we will all start just hitting the cash button a week or (two?) earlier. There isn't much fun in that. It will perhaps introduce some more strategy with stocking though this is true.

I don't think the complaints about NW changes are unfounded. It is nice to compare countries across resets, and to compete to improve on the Best 3 leaderboard as much as to win any given set. Deflating NWs means competition of this kind is gone.

But, I think the biggest complaint is that neutral to unhelpful changes were pushed in on us, when very easy changes everyone on primary has been requesting for a while (relating to spy ops/alliances) have been ignored.

Karim

Member
761

May 6th 2013, 16:00:31

Originally posted by Warster:

so why the hell would they listen about primary

Maybe because, out of 1A, it's the most played server?

If people start losing interest in primary, 1A will be hurted as well....severely.

-[Panzer Division MD]-

Serpentor

Member
2800

May 6th 2013, 20:31:10

Alliance server already sucks, besides warring. We want to keep primary fun and competitive. Trying to get bigger and beat previous scores and compete for best scores and improve average scores is what primary is all about. Some if that's been taken away now. Now instead of growing and actually playing for 2 months we have to play for 1 month and spend the 2nd month mindlessly cashing because its not worth it to build anymore. How do you not see the drastic reduction in entertainment value here.

I guess alliance players just think that since alliance server is boring then they should all be boring. I don't know. Think back to the 90's and early 2000's how fun earth was. Most of that fun was from having the ability to grab and grow as much as you wanted. That kind of play is gone now, but it still existed in primary until this set.

The EEVIL Empire

Warster

Game Moderator
Primary, Express, Tourney, & FFA
4172

May 6th 2013, 23:05:22

Originally posted by Karim:

Originally posted by Warster:

so why the hell would they listen about primary

Maybe because, out of 1A, it's the most played server?

If people start losing interest in primary, 1A will be hurted as well....severely.

How about you quote the whole message, they do not care about what players want except for alliance

FFA- TKO Leader
Alliance- Monsters

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grantman77

Member
73

May 7th 2013, 2:06:33

well so much for SOLIDARITY! But I'm sticking to what I said-until the game admins make the changes we want I will NOT visit the bonus sites because-YES THEY DO make a difference. if they "Grow the game" it gives advertisers a reason to spend money.

blid

Member

EE Patron
9319

May 7th 2013, 2:08:33

This is not a for-profit game heh.

Originally posted by Mr. Titanium:

Watch your mouth boy, I have never been accused of cheating on any server nor deleted before you just did right there.

Xinhuan

Member
3728

May 7th 2013, 4:39:18

Originally posted by grantman77:

Advertisers don't spend money on this game, so there isn't anything to lose to begin with. The ads you see are just google ads, which just about anyone can apply for and embed in any website.

Vic

Member
6543

May 7th 2013, 11:18:39

bobby - at this point all of us should be 95-100% on grab success, all know how to hit good targets out of DR, and primary is a relatively target rich environment. i don't see the ability to grab longer as any more a benefit for better players. the better players will always be able to hit land goals well before the poorer players , and now this allows for more market play imo.

and longer stocking doesn't necessarily equate to one mindlessly hitting cash, the longer one stocks the more opportunity for market play imo.

although i would expect these changes to have somewhat of a stabilizing effect on the markets relative to previous sets, so maybe opportunity to capture large margins by reselling will have been greatly diminished.

and i understand what you are saying regarding nw's. but i dont think it's a huge deal.
nw's changed from 2025 to EE - and we can all still define the top netters from 2025, regardless of their 'lower' scores.

blid

Member

EE Patron
9319

May 7th 2013, 14:06:03

Well Vic, you've never played Primary before, but it was fun for a lot of us and we liked building costs etc the way it was. :(

Originally posted by Mr. Titanium:

Watch your mouth boy, I have never been accused of cheating on any server nor deleted before you just did right there.

Vic

Member
6543

May 7th 2013, 15:35:48

ya obviously it's easy for me to say, blid.
i do definitely feel your pain i'm just excited to play this set and don't want everyone taking off right when i come to play :p
so trying to keep everyone positive

qwertyh

Member
257

May 7th 2013, 22:07:45

what changes! i just made my plan according to the old wiki stuff...fudge me

blid

Member

EE Patron
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May 7th 2013, 22:11:36

Main things are gonna be: more expensive oil, dicts worse for netting, and, most importantly, buildings get mega expensive as you get big.

http://forums.earthempires.com/...e-changes-rolling-changes

Cost of building 1000 acres at 60k land before: 181,500,000
Cost now: 305,332,980 (68% increase)

Oh, explore is buffed and there's a PCI adjustment.

Originally posted by Mr. Titanium:

Watch your mouth boy, I have never been accused of cheating on any server nor deleted before you just did right there.

qwertyh

Member
257

May 7th 2013, 22:39:35

Yeah, thanks. I read that except I already spent 142 turns already..meh....:/ Now I am having 2nd thoughts....(i shall refrain from commenting probably already been expressed about them changes!)

qwertyh

Member
257

May 7th 2013, 23:29:27

*add my vote* to reverse changes on Primary, after this set. Thanks dev!

afaik

Member
502

May 8th 2013, 8:45:43

Originally posted by Vic:

This also reduces the risk of late game bullfluff topfeeds - which is another change that will benefit the best players.

How about when Xin stocked on 23k acres or so on alliance two sets ago and just destroyed everyone? Why isn't that possible here?

sorry late to this discussion, but i think the opposite vic - the better players will start stocking early, which means those not stocking or aiming to finish as high will be more easily able to topfeed during the stocking phase.

if you tried to stock on 23ka in primary you would be farmed silly (or else have to either make lots of expensive retals, or grow def all set with everyone else, and become inefficient towards the end of the set)

low acre stocking really relies on either being so small you are not a lucrative target (wouldn't compete in primary), or having some form of tag protection so the grab will be heavily retalled without costing you too much (the ability to cash in stock to make a huge retal simply isn't enough of a deterrant in primary - i'm not sure why as it should be, but from experience this isn't the case). the cost of these constant retals would undermine the strat.

Serpentor

Member
2800

May 8th 2013, 23:54:50

This round is going to be stupid funny during the 2nd month.

The EEVIL Empire

Serpentor

Member
2800

May 9th 2013, 17:23:55

Congrats already to the farmers with corruption bonus. Imagine a month of everyone stocking, and not to mention the thieves that will be stealing the farmers bankrolls with the unstoppable ops. Lmao!!!

The EEVIL Empire