March/April 2013 Talk - Earth Empires Forum

BobbyATA

Member
2367

Apr 11th 2013, 5:41:19

Yes the 3 turn attack is almost inconsequential on this server since cashers/indies/farmers all must waste turns essentially in order to get production to finance future growth.

My main point was that
1.15*2.3*.94^2 < 2.43

Or with more realistic tech levels

1.15*1.9*.94^2<1.99

And yes, better mil strat/weaps for demo help as well as does no pop/pci negative bonuses.

The only benefit of fascist is getting to resource decay a week early. Hence better arguably better performance stocking depending on how different bushel prices are at the start of that week as opposed to the end of that week.

BobbyATA

Member
2367

Apr 11th 2013, 5:42:39

Fascist oil rig production is true, I didn't consider that.

BobbyATA

Member
2367

Apr 11th 2013, 5:58:54

A fun little metric for C/I that I started following this set is the sum over all NW changes of the absolute value of the NW change (exercise to the reader why this might be of interest).

SOme examples:
#175 136M
#17 126M
#171 126M
#125 115M
#194 111M
#119 111M
#198 100M
#47 89M

blid

Member

EE Patron
9319

Apr 11th 2013, 12:05:59

Originally posted by Xinhuan:

On Alliance you would be trying to farm untags 1/12 your size at 40a per hit, doing 30 hits a day

ahahah. what a server! :)

Originally posted by Mr. Titanium:

Watch your mouth boy, I have never been accused of cheating on any server nor deleted before you just did right there.

oldman

Member
877

Apr 11th 2013, 13:14:22

well, to answer the question of whether I would have done better as a fascist last set. I think the answer would most likely have been yes. Reasons are:
a) food price was good, I wouldn't have fallen behind even as a fascist.
b) I would have needed a lot less CS. Those extra turns would have gone to grabbing more land. This should negate the extra ghost acres dict gets.
c) I would have maxed decay a week earlier and I would have caught the food peak. I missed the food peak totally last set and that costs me a ton of NW.
d) the 15% extra production would have offset the weaker defense a fasicst has. I could have bought more military faster (due to the increased production and the extra turns I get from not having to build so many CS)

Not saying I definitely would have done better, I'm just saying it's a possibility =)

AndrewMose

Member
1066

Apr 11th 2013, 13:21:01

Originally posted by BobbyATA:

This is very interesting...and humbling...but I have a good reason to be that far behind.

Xinhuan

Member
3728

Apr 11th 2013, 16:26:23

You should probably only sum up the positive NW changes, and not the negative ones (even if taking the absolute value). You'll get a better metric (i.e, one that is representative of production, instead of production + military sales + jet losses).

Chewi

Member
867

Apr 12th 2013, 0:22:52

Bobby got retaled a week later. Will he fight again this set?

blid

Member

EE Patron
9319

Apr 12th 2013, 0:31:30

Yes

Originally posted by Mr. Titanium:

Watch your mouth boy, I have never been accused of cheating on any server nor deleted before you just did right there.

BobbyATA

Member
2367

Apr 12th 2013, 3:48:26

2013-04-11 18:00:46 PS Crazy strat going on here (#84)
Planetary (#8)
3335A (4922A)

2013-04-04 13:00:24 PS Planetary (#8)
Crazy strat going on here (#84)
497A (994A)

I should absolutely go to war over this ridiculousness, but I kind of don't want to. Mainly b/c I'm busy IRL currently, but also b/c #84 has a really poor country so it's not like I'd be destroying much to begin with.

Anyways, first 5 votes determine it. Reply BobbyATA: yes if you want me to war and BobbyATA: no if you don't want me to war. You can include reasons if you want. I will do whatever the majority of the first five responses says. Thanks.

Edited By: BobbyATA on Apr 12th 2013, 3:52:45
See Original Post

Karim

Member
761

Apr 12th 2013, 4:48:40

I was thinking to go after him as well ( i got retaled even worse ) but i still think i can have a decent finish: if i didn't i wouldn't ignore him.

-[Panzer Division MD]-

blid

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Apr 12th 2013, 11:46:26

I actually think a week is a kind of fair timeline for a farmer to retal a commie in a game like Primary, considering the prices and how the market is. But if you don't at least RoR him then it will look like Seth defeated you and your policy!

Originally posted by Mr. Titanium:

Watch your mouth boy, I have never been accused of cheating on any server nor deleted before you just did right there.

crest23

Member
4666

Apr 12th 2013, 12:20:52

His policy has already been defeated though, when was the last RoR he did that didn't end up with Serp grabbing him scotfree before the set ended? If after all that lesson he though us 2 sets ago and last and the very next set, boom. Nobody cares. With the characters in this game you will soon have people playing just so that they can RoR you a week later to mess your set up.

The Nigerian Nightmare.

blid

Member

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9319

Apr 12th 2013, 12:37:14

Doesn't matter, as long as the retaler's round is screwed as well, he is still enforcing his policy. Seth was saying all this stuff about how he could have got 200m networth and 100k land and junk, and welp, Bobby prevented that (even though I don't think there was anything wrong with Seth's retal, Bobby backed his policy up pretty well). I suppose someone could intentionally start retaling him late just for kicks, although Bobby would have to attack that person first for that to be possible.

Edited By: blid on Apr 12th 2013, 12:52:01
See Original Post

Originally posted by Mr. Titanium:

Watch your mouth boy, I have never been accused of cheating on any server nor deleted before you just did right there.

AndrewMose

Member
1066

Apr 12th 2013, 13:12:21

I don't think there is anything wrong with an ROR in this case. I don't know if I would send more then one attack though. I would just treat it as a grab, retal and move on. If chances fall Bobby's way he get some land back and avoids war.

LATC

Member
1210

Apr 12th 2013, 14:53:12

Bobby, just out of curiosity, have you ever played anything other than commie in primary?

Originally posted by Xinhuan:

Are you guys stupid or what?

BobbyATA

Member
2367

Apr 12th 2013, 15:12:37

http://www.earthempires.com/profile/450/primary

I have 3 top 10s as a casher, 1 as an indy and 1 as a techer. I only played farmer once (set 2) and was killed...bah.

This is a new thing for me to play the same strat 3 sets in a row.

BobbyATA

Member
2367

Apr 12th 2013, 15:13:14

my game profile is hard to read b/c of all the sets I create a country and decide not to play heh:(

LATC

Member
1210

Apr 12th 2013, 16:23:25

hmm well as I msged you in-game when I did the retal, I was converting from techer to farmer/oiler at the time (trying to time peaks for tech/food/oil to see if it was a viable strat.. it is not) and taking a lot of hits, hence it took a few extra days (4 on top of your 3 day window) to finish building up and getting around to retalling you. As someone in the middle of converting and becoming a farmer I didn't see that as an excessive number of days to do a retal.. I could have done it earlier had I focused on just retalling you.

If you want to fight me over this that's fine, I think it would be a waste of a set for you as I was just trying a different strat so a war really doesn't 'screw up my round'. But I think you should try playing a farmer again to understand why the 3 day retal window is very unfair for a commie to impose on a farmer.

Sorry Karim, I had just converted and needed land fast to catch up, of all the retal targets I had to gain a good chunk of acres, you had the least amount of D.

Originally posted by Xinhuan:

Are you guys stupid or what?

BobbyATA

Member
2367

Apr 12th 2013, 16:36:31

you guys suck at following directions but I count 3 yes and 1 no so voting is over:

AM, blid and LATC "If you want to fight me over this that's fine" as yesses

and

crest "If you don't t10 you didn't enforce your policy" as no.

Bah.

LATC

Member
1210

Apr 12th 2013, 16:41:31

haha well I didn't say war or don't war, the decision is up to you, I'm just saying I wouldn't mind a war if that's what you decide, it's more fun than netting anyway IMO.

*Grabs KoH some popcorn.. oh wait he's not around =( *

Originally posted by Xinhuan:

Are you guys stupid or what?

blid

Member

EE Patron
9319

Apr 12th 2013, 16:45:41

Yeah I voted yes but that was from Bobby's POV and how he has his policy and all that.

My own opinion is that for someone converting strats or who is a farmer or whatever, it can make sense to give them over 72 hours. I wouldn't have warred Seth or LATC. If I had a policy I was enforcing the way Bobby does I would enforce it against real late people who don't have any excuse, like #9 for his retal on Serp.

Edited By: blid on Apr 12th 2013, 16:48:43
See Original Post

Originally posted by Mr. Titanium:

Watch your mouth boy, I have never been accused of cheating on any server nor deleted before you just did right there.

Karim

Member
761

Apr 12th 2013, 16:45:46

I was thinking about RoRing you, cause i dislike those that retal a 500 acres grab with a 5k retal 10 days later going all jetter and think it's fair and safe BUT i don't want to waste a set and i have to admit that if you were able to retal me it was mainly my fault.

I bought way more weapons tech now.

Edit: last note, food will spike soon and could be a bad idea to war a farmer as a CI when military goes down and food goes up.

-[Panzer Division MD]-

blid

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EE Patron
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Apr 12th 2013, 16:48:59

I don't think the food spike is coming. :P Might go into 40s or something but that's it.

Originally posted by Mr. Titanium:

Watch your mouth boy, I have never been accused of cheating on any server nor deleted before you just did right there.

BobbyATA

Member
2367

Apr 12th 2013, 16:49:52

I doubt there will be much of a food spike this set Karim

Karim

Member
761

Apr 12th 2013, 16:49:53

Really? I am bad at several aspects of this game still.

-[Panzer Division MD]-

AndrewMose

Member
1066

Apr 12th 2013, 16:52:10

I think anyone who retals by going all jets shouldn't be too upset if they get grabbed again. At that point they can be topfed so another bottomfeed against them isn't the end of the world.

And likewise if they choose to retal again...they can do that but I imagine it would be at the expense of many more people attacking them once they get into the all jet vicious cycle. I've gone all jet for a retal before and even after a couple nice retals I wasn't able to get my defense up in time to stop the rest of the attacks.

LATC

Member
1210

Apr 12th 2013, 16:55:05

I was figuring with the trend of more and more decent players from alliance joining primary and average land of top players getting higher and higher every reset that food and oil price would peak even higher this set (the last 2 sets food peaks have been higher and higher). But it doesn't look like this played out as I had hoped, maybe a lot more ppl went farmer after last reset's food prices?

Originally posted by Xinhuan:

Are you guys stupid or what?

BobbyATA

Member
2367

Apr 12th 2013, 16:57:07

LATC I'll go farmer next set.

Magellaan

Member
533

Apr 12th 2013, 17:00:05

I did a couple retals as a farmer last set within 72 hours :P I don't really see the problem for farmers getting retals in fast lol.

Not MD, fake Magellaan.

crest23

Member
4666

Apr 12th 2013, 17:07:11

Yeah, with food at $70 a pop, I don't think that was an issue. Getting hit in the first place to warrant a 'retal' with food at $70 should be an issue.

The Nigerian Nightmare.

Magellaan

Member
533

Apr 12th 2013, 17:10:46

Food was maybe at $45 when I retalled, but okay thats still higher than this set. I know I messed up getting hit in the first place too :P

Not MD, fake Magellaan.

Chewi

Member
867

Apr 12th 2013, 17:23:46

Bobby: yes

You use the same country name most sets and seem to have a problem with late retals. They will probably be less likely to retal you like that in the future.

AndrewMose

Member
1066

Apr 13th 2013, 23:25:18

Can Narcisist compete with the cashers?

blid

Member

EE Patron
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Apr 13th 2013, 23:34:10

Don't really think so, but maybe - he has a lot more land over them than I realized.

Originally posted by Mr. Titanium:

Watch your mouth boy, I have never been accused of cheating on any server nor deleted before you just did right there.

BobbyATA

Member
2367

Apr 14th 2013, 1:06:16

Originally posted by AndrewMose:

Can Narcisist compete with the cashers?

No.

Crowgora

Member
340

Apr 14th 2013, 1:41:16

if i did a late set casher switch, essentially when i was confident in my ability to not get attacked and broke, would this be a viable strat?

Serpentor

Member
2800

Apr 14th 2013, 4:24:17

He'll be right up there. Perfect set so far.

The EEVIL Empire

Xinhuan

Member
3728

Apr 14th 2013, 5:06:26

Originally posted by Crowgora:

if i did a late set casher switch, essentially when i was confident in my ability to not get attacked and broke, would this be a viable strat?

No. It costs too many turns and too much money to switch. And if you switch governments, you lose a very large percentage of your units and tech as well (and more importantly, a BPT loss, and permanent bonus loss).

afaik

Member
502

Apr 14th 2013, 8:11:59

yea if you're going to switch and rebuild, you absolutely must get it out of the way early, before both build costs and time remaining to stock make it infeasible.

of course, nobody will ever switch above 15ka ever again with the new build cost forumla :/

crest23

Member
4666

Apr 14th 2013, 13:54:29

Xin, what do you mean by permanent bonus loss?

The Nigerian Nightmare.

blid

Member

EE Patron
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Apr 14th 2013, 14:02:48

Corruption, expenses, etc., % of your investment gets lost in government conversion.

Originally posted by afaik:

of course, nobody will ever switch above 15ka ever again with the new build cost forumla :/

yep. i pointed this out to Xin, another bad result from the new formula. you don't play alliance either do you afaik?

Originally posted by Mr. Titanium:

Watch your mouth boy, I have never been accused of cheating on any server nor deleted before you just did right there.

crest23

Member
4666

Apr 14th 2013, 14:44:11

Wow! I didn't know that.

The Nigerian Nightmare.

blid

Member

EE Patron
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Apr 14th 2013, 14:59:59

There was a thread in the Announcements forum that noted it, and also said fascist would get a government advantage on permanent bonuses.
http://forums.earthempires.com/...mp;z=bonus-system-changes

Originally posted by Mr. Titanium:

Watch your mouth boy, I have never been accused of cheating on any server nor deleted before you just did right there.

blid

Member

EE Patron
9319

Apr 14th 2013, 15:00:42

Also fun to note, in 2010 qzjul posted this:

Originally posted by qzjul:

Fascism:
Oil bonus will be +75% (up from +50%)

This is basically to improve oilers, obviously, and put some market pressure on non-fasc from holding their own rigs.

;)

Originally posted by Mr. Titanium:

Watch your mouth boy, I have never been accused of cheating on any server nor deleted before you just did right there.

Slagpit

Administrator
Game Development
4646

Apr 14th 2013, 18:53:40

I probably shouldn't be posting this, but what many of you suspect is actually the truth: primary generally isn't considered when sweeping gameplay changes are made.

I unfortunately don't have a good solution for this. I can only suggest campaigning for separate game rules for primary and complaining loudly about the current state of things.

Edited By: Slagpit on Apr 14th 2013, 18:59:48

Xinhuan

Member
3728

Apr 14th 2013, 19:14:59

Slagpit, please come back and play Primary.

- Signed, Xinhuan

(I already figured out that the game was balanced around Alliance long ago, since it is the server with the most active player base compared against any other 2 servers combined - it makes sense after all - but Primary is the server that newer players start playing first, it is even called PRIMARY, you want this server to be fair as well as newbie friendly. That's why at least one admin (or person with higher board access) should play on this server.)

Slagpit

Administrator
Game Development
4646

Apr 14th 2013, 19:25:03

I haven't been consulted about game changes for a very long time. I also disagree. Alliance should be balanced around alliance and primary should be balanced around primary.

blid

Member

EE Patron
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Apr 14th 2013, 19:34:42

Originally posted by Slagpit:

That's exactly why I've been posting annoyingly all over the place about it. :D

Originally posted by Mr. Titanium:

Watch your mouth boy, I have never been accused of cheating on any server nor deleted before you just did right there.

BobbyATA

Member
2367

Apr 14th 2013, 19:36:12

Xinhuan you should try to become an admin, or at least the primary server spokesman to the admins. I think all of us would support that.

BTW, hi Slagpit! When are we catching up??