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Bacon and Eggs

New Member
1

Jan 5th 2013, 14:22:31

Is this the only game on the internet that sits on it's hands and makes no changes despite tens of excellent ideas from it's community - then when it finally makes a change it does not consult the players and goes so far off the deep end it changes the dynamics completely.

300 attack kills on non stonewallers is profoundly stupid.
No kill should take more than 225-250 hits with successful breaks. You dont have to fluff the game up and make kill runs longer to increase the chance of a stonewaller.

Here are some suggestions for the administrators (if there currently are any):

1. Restrict the amount of hits a country can do in 1 second. Make it 1, or maybe even 1 hit in 2 seconds. No brain or heavy coding required. You can even keep the ajax spam button!

2. Give restarts turbo charged bonuses based on how well they built their recently dead country. Make it 15% of all cash, bushels, oil, CS, land. Do away with the turn based generic crap. Why should rewards be even regardless of how fluff your first country was? This will reward blindsided countries/alliances who were unsuspecting and had decent stocks.

3. Why should special attacks be allowed in the first 2 weeks? Ohh you think guerilla style OOP wars are good for the game!! Bzzt. Think again pea brain. Get some skill and fight a war after a reasonable amount of time. Allow special attacks in this time frame if country-to-country war is declared.

There you go.. Ideas that have been around for probably 2 years but have never been implemented because the admins didnt think of them first. There was a failed attempt to fix the AJAX button then after it was reverted it was forgotten about. Now the power of the AJAX button has brought about a new weakened civ ratio based on military to try to bring back stonewalling. It's just ludicrous.

Cougar Game profile

Member
517

Jan 5th 2013, 15:08:29

So not only are you too cowardly to post under your normal name, but you are too dumb to find the bugs and suggestions board?

Atryn Game profile

Member
2149

Jan 5th 2013, 15:12:36

Originally posted by Bacon and Eggs:
You dont have to fluff the game up and make kill runs longer to increase the chance of a stonewaller.

Here are some suggestions for the administrators (if there currently are any):

1. Restrict the amount of hits a country can do in 1 second. Make it 1, or maybe even 1 hit in 2 seconds. No brain or heavy coding required. You can even keep the ajax spam button!


wait... don't increase the chance of stonewallers, immediately followed by "slow down attacks"??? Make up your mind!

locket Game profile

Member
6176

Jan 5th 2013, 15:57:28

Post under your real account or no one will ever read your whining threads and actually give a fluff. Even Dagga would get more attention and you kind of sound like him.

Son Goku Game profile

Member
745

Jan 5th 2013, 20:06:00

Originally posted by Cougar:
So not only are you too cowardly to post under your normal name, but you are too dumb to find the bugs and suggestions board?

KoHeartsGPA Game profile

Member
EE Patron
29,617

Jan 5th 2013, 20:28:01

Originally posted by Son Goku:
Originally posted by Cougar:
So not only are you too cowardly to post under your normal name, but you are too dumb to find the bugs and suggestions board?
Mess with me you better kill me, or I'll just take your pride & joy and jack it up
(•_•)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6VRMGTwU4I
-=TSO~DKnights~ICD~XI~LaF=-

S.F. Giants 2010, 2012, 2014 World Series Champions, fluff YEAH!

Magellaan Game profile

Member
533

Jan 5th 2013, 20:30:10

Originally posted by KoHeartsGPA:
Originally posted by Son Goku:
Originally posted by Cougar:
So not only are you too cowardly to post under your normal name, but you are too dumb to find the bugs and suggestions board?
Not MD, fake Magellaan.

Kumander Otbol

Member
728

Jan 5th 2013, 20:38:05

Originally posted by Magellaan:
Originally posted by KoHeartsGPA:
Originally posted by Son Goku:
Originally posted by Cougar:
So not only are you too cowardly to post under your normal name, but you are too dumb to find the bugs and suggestions board?
Originally posted by cypress:
no reason to start slacking just because they are getting FA

fluff them....we'll steamroll them even with the FA they are getting

Nekked Game profile

Member
885

Jan 5th 2013, 20:39:07

Originally posted by Magellaan:
Originally posted by KoHeartsGPA:
Originally posted by Son Goku:
Originally posted by Cougar:
So not only are you too cowardly to post under your normal name, but you are too dumb to find the bugs and suggestions board?

qzjul Game profile

Administrator
Game Development
10,263

Jan 5th 2013, 20:58:39

While I probably shouldn't grace this with a response (see above quotes of quotes of quotes &etc)...


Originally posted by Bacon and Eggs:
... makes no changes ...
http://wiki.earthempires.com/index.php/Gameplay_changes A significantly out of date changelog; I'm also finishing up a years worth of changes to the routing system and code in general, making the game more OOP & friendly to code.

then when it finally makes a change it does not consult the players

Players were consulted. Specifically, I approached the war leaders of leading alliances (Makinso / Ivan / Aponic / martian (obviously) / somebody from LaF & Imag & PDM and I don't know who else...) and asked for ideas, comments, and showed simulations (in excel). Most of the responses were positive; obviously it's hard to see how things will work from a simulation ;)

and goes so far off the deep end it changes the dynamics completely.


It really doesn't in 90% of cases. The speed is still the biggest difference.

300 attack kills on non stonewallers is profoundly stupid.


You'll note that there were many alliances up near the 290 HPK even without stonewallers *before* the changes...


No kill should take more than 225-250 hits with successful breaks. You dont have to fluff the game up and make kill runs longer to increase the chance of a stonewaller.


Yet you want to slow down attacks per second?

Restrict the amount of hits a country can do in 1 second. Make it 1, or maybe even 1 hit in 2 seconds. No brain or heavy coding required. You can even keep the ajax spam button!


Do you think we haven't thought of this? Hell it was implemented shortly. The reaction from players was overwhelmingly negative. The community has effectively said this isn't an option.

We have significantly more elegant ideas for slowing attacks down, but as *anybody who's been paying attention* could tell you, we've been holding off on major changes until all my back-end changes are done, so we don't *further* fork the code-base.

Give restarts turbo charged bonuses based on how well they built their recently dead country. Make it 15% of all cash, bushels, oil, CS, land. Do away with the turn based generic crap. Why should rewards be even regardless of how fluff your first country was? This will reward blindsided countries/alliances who were unsuspecting and had decent stocks.


This has been discussed back and forth at length. There are both positives and negatives to this.
-> cash -> encourages people to *NOT* stonewall, and to liquidate their military if they're going to die; also, suiciders
-> CS -> if you get BR'd you get none
-> land -> suiciders

The *one* think i'd be inclined to give a percentage of would be tech, as that's very hard to move or liquidate in any way.

Why should special attacks be allowed in the first 2 weeks? Ohh you think guerilla style OOP wars are good for the game!! Bzzt. Think again pea brain. Get some skill and fight a war after a reasonable amount of time. Allow special attacks in this time frame if country-to-country war is declared.


This was also discussed. Again, you are not the first to think of it. The biggest issue is that larger clans can then farm with impunity for the first two weeks of the reset. There becomes no recourse for farming &etc; plus then we would likely see people building up just to FS right at the two week mark. This is a very ugly and ham-fisted solution to a complex problem.

ideas that have been around for probably 2 years but have never been implemented because the admins didnt think of them first.


Actually we thought of a good chunk of them first. Most were rejected as inelegant, or (in the first case) rejected by the community. There are better ways. Also:

1) we have limited time, and changes require testing.
2) we endeavour to *not change too many things at once*
3) we've had some sort of change every set or two, despite the fact that the code has been "frozen" since Dec 2011 for my reworking of the entire codebase


There was a failed attempt to fix the AJAX button then after it was reverted it was forgotten about.


Trust me it was not forgotten about.

Now the power of the AJAX button has brought about a new weakened civ ratio based on military to try to bring back stonewalling.


I actually believe I coded the new attack style before the AJAX stuff ever came about. Despite my calls for testing, nobody tested it, so a decision was made to test it live. We're still evaluating the resultant HPK numbers &etc, and *AS IT SAYS IN THE ORIGINAL POST* are open to considerable tweaking. It is still somewhat experimental.

It's just ludicrous.


And so is posting a list of "suggestions" anonymously!
Finally did the signature thing.

Pride Game profile

Member
1590

Jan 5th 2013, 21:06:08

I like the changes

locket Game profile

Member
6176

Jan 5th 2013, 22:03:12

You WOULD Pride.

Beans And Taters

Member
30

Jan 5th 2013, 22:38:09

You are like so...er..this morning, Mr.B&E

King_Cobra1 Game profile

Member
1019

Jan 5th 2013, 22:48:15

nice response qzjul :)

leech Game profile

Member
41

Jan 5th 2013, 23:35:24

well said QZ! (:

Pride Game profile

Member
1590

Jan 6th 2013, 0:01:05

Originally posted by locket:
You WOULD Pride.


I also prefer locket naked ;)

locket Game profile

Member
6176

Jan 6th 2013, 1:14:33

Most people do! :P

ZIP Game profile

Member
3222

Jan 6th 2013, 1:19:05

not me
fluff your 300 Spartans fool - i have 32 of the biggest fluffed mother fluffers made of titanium !!
A brigade from Blackstreetboyz (#91) has invaded your lands! Your defenses held against the invaders and forced them away! Your military lost:1 Troops

galleri Game profile

Game Moderator
Primary, Express, Tourney, & FFA
14,052

Jan 6th 2013, 4:39:24

good response qzjul...this guys is pissing me off because he is making hungry and my food intake is limited due to having the bubonic plague. First he wants to be lettuce and egg and now bacon and eggs.


https://gyazo.com/...b3bb28dddf908cdbcfd162513

Kahuna: Ya you just wrote the fkn equation, not helping me at all. Lol n I hated algebra.

KoHeartsGPA Game profile

Member
EE Patron
29,617

Jan 6th 2013, 5:06:06

What???? Bubonic plague in 2013??? O.o
Mess with me you better kill me, or I'll just take your pride & joy and jack it up
(•_•)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6VRMGTwU4I
-=TSO~DKnights~ICD~XI~LaF=-

S.F. Giants 2010, 2012, 2014 World Series Champions, fluff YEAH!

galleri Game profile

Game Moderator
Primary, Express, Tourney, & FFA
14,052

Jan 6th 2013, 5:11:14

has to be!! It is all I can sum up in one ...from having the asian bird flu, Superflu, swineflu and SARS all at once! (how I feel)


https://gyazo.com/...b3bb28dddf908cdbcfd162513

Kahuna: Ya you just wrote the fkn equation, not helping me at all. Lol n I hated algebra.

elvesrus

Member
5054

Jan 6th 2013, 5:12:39

there was a case or 2 in oregon last year. yet another reason you shouldn't fluff with the circle of life

http://seattletimes.com/.../2018446561_plague16.html
Originally posted by crest23:
Elves is a douche on every server.

KoHeartsGPA Game profile

Member
EE Patron
29,617

Jan 6th 2013, 5:13:02

Damn :-(
Mess with me you better kill me, or I'll just take your pride & joy and jack it up
(•_•)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6VRMGTwU4I
-=TSO~DKnights~ICD~XI~LaF=-

S.F. Giants 2010, 2012, 2014 World Series Champions, fluff YEAH!

KoHeartsGPA Game profile

Member
EE Patron
29,617

Jan 6th 2013, 5:18:12

The last reported case of plague in Washington state occurred in 1984 when an animal trapper in Yakima became infected while skinning a bobcat. In 2010, a Washington laboratory technician was treated to prevent plague infection after working with a specimen from one of the two reported cases in Oregon at the time.

The plague bacteria cycles through rodent populations without killing them off; in urban areas, it's transmitted back and forth from rats to fleas. There's even a name for it, the "enzootic cycle."

The bacteria thrive in forests, semiarid areas and grasslands, which plague-carrying rodents from wood rats to rock squirrels call home.
Mess with me you better kill me, or I'll just take your pride & joy and jack it up
(•_•)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6VRMGTwU4I
-=TSO~DKnights~ICD~XI~LaF=-

S.F. Giants 2010, 2012, 2014 World Series Champions, fluff YEAH!

Sublime Game profile

Member
212

Jan 6th 2013, 5:55:27

Originally posted by qzjul:
While I probably shouldn't grace this with a response (see above quotes of quotes of quotes &etc)...


Originally posted by Bacon and Eggs:
... makes no changes ...
http://wiki.earthempires.com/index.php/Gameplay_changes A significantly out of date changelog; I'm also finishing up a years worth of changes to the routing system and code in general, making the game more OOP & friendly to code.

then when it finally makes a change it does not consult the players

Players were consulted. Specifically, I approached the war leaders of leading alliances (Makinso / Ivan / Aponic / martian (obviously) / somebody from LaF & Imag & PDM and I don't know who else...) and asked for ideas, comments, and showed simulations (in excel). Most of the responses were positive; obviously it's hard to see how things will work from a simulation ;)

and goes so far off the deep end it changes the dynamics completely.


It really doesn't in 90% of cases. The speed is still the biggest difference.

300 attack kills on non stonewallers is profoundly stupid.


You'll note that there were many alliances up near the 290 HPK even without stonewallers *before* the changes...


No kill should take more than 225-250 hits with successful breaks. You dont have to fluff the game up and make kill runs longer to increase the chance of a stonewaller.


Yet you want to slow down attacks per second?

Restrict the amount of hits a country can do in 1 second. Make it 1, or maybe even 1 hit in 2 seconds. No brain or heavy coding required. You can even keep the ajax spam button!


Do you think we haven't thought of this? Hell it was implemented shortly. The reaction from players was overwhelmingly negative. The community has effectively said this isn't an option.

We have significantly more elegant ideas for slowing attacks down, but as *anybody who's been paying attention* could tell you, we've been holding off on major changes until all my back-end changes are done, so we don't *further* fork the code-base.

Give restarts turbo charged bonuses based on how well they built their recently dead country. Make it 15% of all cash, bushels, oil, CS, land. Do away with the turn based generic crap. Why should rewards be even regardless of how fluff your first country was? This will reward blindsided countries/alliances who were unsuspecting and had decent stocks.


This has been discussed back and forth at length. There are both positives and negatives to this.
-> cash -> encourages people to *NOT* stonewall, and to liquidate their military if they're going to die; also, suiciders
-> CS -> if you get BR'd you get none
-> land -> suiciders

The *one* think i'd be inclined to give a percentage of would be tech, as that's very hard to move or liquidate in any way.

Why should special attacks be allowed in the first 2 weeks? Ohh you think guerilla style OOP wars are good for the game!! Bzzt. Think again pea brain. Get some skill and fight a war after a reasonable amount of time. Allow special attacks in this time frame if country-to-country war is declared.


This was also discussed. Again, you are not the first to think of it. The biggest issue is that larger clans can then farm with impunity for the first two weeks of the reset. There becomes no recourse for farming &etc; plus then we would likely see people building up just to FS right at the two week mark. This is a very ugly and ham-fisted solution to a complex problem.

ideas that have been around for probably 2 years but have never been implemented because the admins didnt think of them first.


Actually we thought of a good chunk of them first. Most were rejected as inelegant, or (in the first case) rejected by the community. There are better ways. Also:

1) we have limited time, and changes require testing.
2) we endeavour to *not change too many things at once*
3) we've had some sort of change every set or two, despite the fact that the code has been "frozen" since Dec 2011 for my reworking of the entire codebase


There was a failed attempt to fix the AJAX button then after it was reverted it was forgotten about.


Trust me it was not forgotten about.

Now the power of the AJAX button has brought about a new weakened civ ratio based on military to try to bring back stonewalling.


I actually believe I coded the new attack style before the AJAX stuff ever came about. Despite my calls for testing, nobody tested it, so a decision was made to test it live. We're still evaluating the resultant HPK numbers &etc, and *AS IT SAYS IN THE ORIGINAL POST* are open to considerable tweaking. It is still somewhat experimental.

It's just ludicrous.


And so is posting a list of "suggestions" anonymously!


To quote the counterstrike days.....pwned!

enshula Game profile

Member
EE Patron
2510

Jan 6th 2013, 16:24:27

you can make a kill take about 10x longer with perfect walling, i did it on test

i wonder if anyone's really messed up (or gloriously won depending on pov) one of the smaller wars with walling

its more likely people ignore a country with has already taken a kills worth of turns and is expected to take 2+ more in favour of trying a new target id assume

Cerberus Game profile

Member
EE Patron
3849

Jan 7th 2013, 7:45:53

OOP wars should not be restricted at all. It gives an offended party the ability to damage what the types of alliances that do most of the offending value most. Their networth, by hammering them early, you put their favorite game style to waste. They are at a disadvantage if they actually have to have real military to defend themselves instead of just netting with the absolute minimum costs involved.
I don't need anger management, people need to stop pissing me off!

enshula Game profile

Member
EE Patron
2510

Jan 7th 2013, 8:37:17

the obvious response to banning oop wars is open farm until warring is allowed

tellarion Game profile

Member
3906

Jan 7th 2013, 13:55:57

The Oregon desert will fluffing kill you with plague. It's not all rain and hipsters, ya know!

trumper Game profile

Member
1557

Jan 7th 2013, 15:47:16

I'm against any variation of speeding up killing. It's too fast already. I laughed as my country was killed around New Year's. I got a text (within 30 seconds of hits starting), logged into the country by iphone and went to market page starting to execute a buy...boom, dead. And when I drop 25 hits in 4 seconds, also not cool to the guy on the other side of the equation. Was much better when we all had crappy dialup or beginnings of dsl in the olden days.

elvesrus

Member
5054

Jan 7th 2013, 20:32:26

Originally posted by enshula:
i wonder if anyone's really messed up (or gloriously won depending on pov) one of the smaller wars with walling


BknArrow does that every set on team, or at least would if the other side stayed alive long enough. As someone said in IRC "there aren't enough countries in team for that" in regard to a tag kill, and coming from the source I tend to agree. The closest anyone has come is 3/5 and that was OOP with 20ish countries.

Pontius: note that I said BknArrow and not TSO :p
Originally posted by crest23:
Elves is a douche on every server.

Trife Game profile

Member
5817

Jan 7th 2013, 21:08:28

Originally posted by Nekked:
Originally posted by Magellaan:
Originally posted by KoHeartsGPA:
Originally posted by Son Goku:
Originally posted by Cougar:
So not only are you too cowardly to post under your normal name, but you are too dumb to find the bugs and suggestions board?

Makolyte Game profile

Member
445

Jan 7th 2013, 21:55:46

Originally posted by Trife:
Originally posted by Nekked:
Originally posted by Magellaan:
Originally posted by KoHeartsGPA:
Originally posted by Son Goku:
Originally posted by Cougar:
So not only are you too cowardly to post under your normal name, but you are too dumb to find the bugs and suggestions board?
--------------------------------------------
Alliance: VP of Death Knights
FFA: XI warrior
--------------------------------------------

Marshal Game profile

Member
32,589

Jan 7th 2013, 22:33:45

2 above are idiots.
Patience: Yep, I'm with ELK and Marshal.

ELKronos: Patty is more hairy.

Gallery: K at least I am to my expectations now.

LadyGrizz boobies is fine

NOW3P: Morwen is a much harsher mistress than boredom....

Trife Game profile

Member
5817

Jan 7th 2013, 22:37:19

1 above is a jelly wanker



ya u jelly

elvesrus

Member
5054

Jan 8th 2013, 5:44:50

it helps prevent chafing ;)
Originally posted by crest23:
Elves is a douche on every server.

Hellrush Game profile

Member
1448

Jan 8th 2013, 6:06:03

OOP Wars Rule


that is all i need to say

mrford Game profile

Member
21,358

Jan 8th 2013, 6:41:21

HELLTARD SIGHTING
Swagger of a Chupacabra

[21:37:01] <&KILLERfluffY> when I was doing FA stuff for sof the person who gave me the longest angry rant was Mr Ford