I feel it is my obligation to point out (as nobody else seems to consider this stuff anymore) that Mitt Romney is Mormon.

Let's get a little bit into what that means shall we? He wears special Mormon underwear. Mitt cannot drink coffee, beer, or do any kind of drug. I think the last three presidents admitted to Marajuana touching.
Did you know the founder of Mormonism, Joseph Smith was arrested in 1826 for being a con-man? Oh yes, the mighty prophet conned 30-50 women to marry him (some young girls- he was a pedophile), he convinced rich converts to give their worldly assets to the church, and they also believe non-white people were cursed by God.

So Mormonism is openly racist...

VOTE MITT ROMNEY! we think he's a Christian... but he knows better.

one source:
http://www.worldviewweekend.com/...rticle.php?articleid=1588

mormons have accepted black people since 1978. this should clear some things up https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZIFqaqKoBI

let me know when they start blowing up and shredding the people around them into kibbles and bits.

I knew this was the next step from the Democrats. Sad.

Dissidenticn will soon make a thread about Obama being a closet muslim.

wouldn't feel like quoting anything from the Book of Mormon that demonstrates that they are required to be racist, now would you?

He's only following in the steps of such republican luminaries as the birthers and those that are convinced Obama is a muslim...

JFK WAS A CATHOLIC, AND WE ALL KNOW THEY TAKE ORDERS DIRECTLY FROM THE POPE. THE CATHOLIC CHURCH VISITED SOME PRETTY NASTY HORRORS ON PEOPLE IN THE MIDDLE AGES.

THEREFORE, JFK WAS EVIL, AND GOT WHAT HE HAD COMING.

AND AGAIN, I HAVE TO WONDER WHY ON EARTH WOULD YOU CARE ENOUGH ABOUT OBAMA GETTING CORONATED AGAIN, TO STOOP TO THIS LEVEL OF ATTACK? IF YOU LOVE SOCIALIST POLICIES, I HEAR THINGS ARE GOING SPLENDIDLY IN GREECE RIGHT NOW. WHY NOT JUST MOVE THERE INSTEAD OF RAILING ABOUT AMERICAN POLITICS?

HA!

SAM

OH YEAH, AND ONE MORE THING....

WHY BOTHER STOOPING TO PERSONAL ATTACKS, WHEN THERE ARE SO MANY LEGITIMATE POLITICAL ARGUMENTS YOU COULD MAKE?

HE FLIP FLOPS ON ISSUES, HAS OPENLY ADMITTED THAT WHAT HE BELIEVES IN THE PRIMARIES WILL BE DIFFERENT THAN WHAT HE BELIEVES AT GENERAL ELECTION TIME, ESPOUSES FISCAL CONSERVATISM ONLY IF THE POLLS SHOW HE'D GAIN A PERCENTAGE POINT BY DOING SO....

SERIOUSLY.. WHY BOTHER BASHING HIS RELIGION? HE SEEMS LIKE A PRETTY DECENT GUY ON A PERSONAL LEVEL, BUT AS A POLITICIAN HE'S ALMOST AS BAD AS OUR CURRENT PRESIDENT.

The funny irony is that we pinko-commy atheist UN loving scum could care less about which fairy tale he believes in. Its the god fearing, salt of the earth evangelicals whose vote he is counting on to win that are most likely to give a fluff about his coffee drinking habits.

On a personal level he made millions of dollars taking over companies, liquidating their assets, and laying off thousands of people after they had their money... so ya.. on a personal level he's a decent guy.

As for the Mormon racist thing, Book of Mormon: Alma 3:6-19; 3 Nephi 2:14-15; Enos 1:20; J of D, 7: 290-291

"And the skins of the Lamanites were dark, according to the mark which was set upon their fathers, which was a curse upon them because of their transgression and their rebellion against their brethren, who consisted of Nephi, Jacob, and Joseph, and Sam, who were just and holy men."

"Not only was Cain called upon to suffer, but because of his wickedness he became the father of an inferior race."

-Joseph Fielding Smith, The Way to Perfection

"I would not want you to believe that we bear any animosity toward the Negro. 'Darkies' are wonderful people, and they have their place in our church."

- Joseph Fielding Smith, Look magazine, October 22, 1963
---------------------------------

So let me get this straight. It's wrong for me to "stoop" to discussing Romney's religion (cult) but you can call Obama a secret Muslim who isn't an American? IMO, if you are part of a religion that is open to satire then it deserves to be made fun of as ridiculous.

Don't worry people, I do the same thing to Christians. I mean, Obama may be Christian but I don't believe his policies will reflect it... and I doubt he will cow tow to clergy.

PS JFK made it clear before he was elected that he wouldn't take orders from the Papacy.

doesn't matter to me. i flip the radio off then turn it off until the election is over, once the ads get too negative.

I GUESS I WAS A BIT TOO SUBTLE WITH MY POINT THERE. PEOPLE DID MAKE THE SAME KINDS OF RIDICULOUS ARGUMENTS ABOUT JFK THAT YOU'RE NOW MAKING ABOUT ROMNEY.

WHERE DID I CALL OBAMA A SECRET MUSLIM? HAVE I BEEN POSTING IN INVISIBLE INK AGAIN? BUT SINCE YOU BROUGHT UP OBAMA'S RELIGION..

HE SAT AND LISTENED TO A PREACHER WHO ESPOUSED RACISM FOR WHAT.. 20 YEARS? SO WHY DON'T YOU HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THAT? YOU HAVE A PROBLEM WITH MORMONISM'S RACISM OF 40 YEARS AGO, WHAT ABOUT REV WRIGHT? OR WOULD THAT ONLY BE BROUGHT UP IF HERMAN CAIN HAD GONE TO THAT CHURCH.

REGARDING THE REST OF THE INACCRUATE ROMNEY BASHING IN YOUR POST, BAIN CAPITAL BOUGHT *FAILING* COMPANIES. SOME OF THOSE IT TURNED AROUND AND MADE PROFITABLE. OTHERS CONTINUED TO FAIL AND WERE SOLD OFF UNDER BAIN AS THEY WOULD HAVE BEEN WITHOUT BAIN. THEY HELPED SOME, HURT NONE, AND MADE FISTLOADS OF CASH. HOW EVIL.

AGAIN, AS A POLITICIAN I CAN'T STAND ROMNEY, BUT ATTACKING HIM ON A PERSONAL LEVEL ISN'T GOING TO BE EFFECTIVE. HE'S A DECENT, CHARITABLE FAMILY MAN. UNFORTUNATELY, HE CARES ABOUT AS MUCH ABOUT THE CONSTITUTION, PERSONAL LIBERTY AND INDIVIDUAL SOVEREIGNTY AS PRESIDENT OBAMA DOES.

I HOPE PLENTY OF OBAMA FOLLOWERS DO TAKE THE ROAD YOU'VE TAKEN HERE THOUGH. IT JUST MAKES THE LEFT-STATIST PARTY LOOK PETTY AND SMALL. WHILE I'M NO BIG FAN OF THE RIGHT-STATIST PARTY EITHER, I THINK ROMNEY WOULD DO LESS HARM THAN OBAMA. AND SADLY, I DON'T THINK THE GUY I'LL BE VOTING FOR HAS MUCH CHANCE OF WINNING.

The secret muslim bit was from another poster. I'm not just talking to you ya know.

The difference between Mormonism's racism and some reverend's racism is that it's not part of the Christian doctrine... unlike Mormonism. Honestly, I think all religion is nuts.

Romney SAID I don't care about 47% of American people because they won't take responsibility for their own lives. Is that a decent guy? He uses loopholes in the tax code to make sure he doesn't pay his fair share... he won't change that. Romney is out of touch with normal people. I just can't believe that you don't see it.

The last two paragraphs of your seem a bit rantish so I'll just stay away from that.

But, I'm talking about how crazy!!!!!! Mormonism is... and now there is a possibility that someone who believes it might be your next president. Remember, magic underwear.

My impression of Americans would rise if it was found that this level of discourse had no effect on the opinions of voters.

It's a sad statement when these sorts of slander attempts are even considered. Among most reasonable people the idea would not occur because it would automatically be assumed ineffective. God help America if this is the type of discussion that attracts listeners, sways votes and resonates intellectually.

*flies away on his magic underwear*

YOU SHOULD BE TALKING ONLY TO ME. THESE OTHER RUBES ARE USELESS NANCIES.

THE MORMON CHURCH HAS SAID FOR MORE THAN 40 YEARS THAT THEY WERE WRONG ON THE ISSUE OF RACE. BUT SOMEHOW, VIEWS WHICH CURRENT MORMONS DISAVOW ARE MEANINGFUL IN EXAMINING A CANDIDATE, WHILE THE CURRENT VIEWS OF THE OTHER CANDIDATE'S CHURCH ARE NOT MEANINGFUL. THIS SEEMS A BIT BACKWARDS TO ME.

ROMNEY DID NOT SAY - AS LEFT-STATISTS SO STRONGLY WISH HE HAD - WHAT YOU SAY HE SAID. HE SAID HE'S NOT GOING TO GET THEIR VOTE, SO TRYING FOR IT WOULD BE A WASTED EFFORT (PARAPHRASING OF COURSE, BUT IT IS A LOT CLOSER TO WHAT HE SAID THAN HOW YOU CHARACTERIZED IT)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvqHERTcytI - WATCH IT AGAIN, AND TELL ME IF YOU HONESTLY GET FROM THAT "I WON'T CARE ABOUT THOSE PEOPLE EVER" THE CONTEXT IS PRETTY CLEAR. IN AN ELECTION, SOME PEOPLE ARE JUST NOT GOING TO VOTE FOR YOU NO MATTER WHAT. RESOURCES SPENT ON TRYING TO CONVINCE THOSE PEOPLE ARE RESOURCES WASTED.

THE "LOOPHOLES" IN THE TAX CODE YOU'RE REFERRING TO INCLUDE MASSIVE DONATIONS TO CHARITY. I'D MUCH RATHER HAVE SOMEONE GIVING MILLIONS TO CHARITY AND PAYING A 14% TAX RATE, THAN HAVE THEM GIVE THOSE MILLIONS TO GOVT VIA A HIGHER TAX RATE, AND HAVE A HUGE PORTION OF THAT MONEY WASTED BY INEFFICIENT BUREAUCRACIES AND THIEVING POLITICIANS.

AND HE HAS ALSO STATED HE INTENDS TO CLOSE SOME OF THE OTHER LOOPHOLES. I DON'T NECESSARILY BELIEVE HIM ON THAT, BUT IT'S A MUCH BETTER PLAN THAN "RAISE TAX RATES AND LEAVE LOOPHOLES IN PLACE, SO THAT ONLY THOSE WITH ENOUGH RESOURCES ARE ABLE TO REDUCE THEIR TAX BURDEN".

WHAT ABOUT PARAGRAPH FIVE ABOVE WAS RANTISH? HE'S A DECENT GUY WHO DOESN'T TAKE LIMITED GOVERNMENT SERIOUSLY, IN MY OPINION. THAT'S RANTISH?

since i'm watching "The Exorcism of Emily Rose", and this topic is about religion, and Halloween is just around the corner... can we discuss Demonic Possession and how for me to keep from knocking my knees, keep my hair from turning white and keep from peeing my pants while i watch horror movies? not that i actually do any of those sorts of things...

ARE YOU WEARING MAGIC UNDERWEAR? IF SO, YOUR THIRD CONCERN IS OF NO CONSEQUENCE.

AND WHITE HAIR IS SEXY.

HA!

SAM

I dunno Oats. If I were American, I would want a president who is a secular humanist and doesn't believe in fantasy or delusion. Logical and rational instead of wearing weird underwear and believing he will be a God one day with his own planet... So... if you want to think that this is a base discussion or low level discourse, I'd have to point out the deviousness of an entire religious ideology that he has founded his life/family around. It seems kind of important to who you may be electing. Isn't a person's history and belief systems fair game when considering a president?

Ok Sam. I like that you're discussing this with me without ad hominem attacks. Thanks. I don't think you were ranting, I just didnt have time to respond to every point you made. Romney did say that 47% of Americans refuse to take responsibility for their own well being... that's a statement made in bad faith, don't you agree?

http://www.vanityfair.com/...-romney-offshore-accounts

As for his loopholes... $30 million in Bain Capital funds in the Cayman Islands alone. Look up "Sankaty High Yield Asset Investors Ltd." also. He has money in Bermuda as well; jurisdictions where there is virtually no tax and virtually no compliance.

As for the wonders of Bain... "Bain bought companies, loaded them with debt, and paid itself extravagant fees, thereby bankrupting the companies and destroying tens of thousands of jobs."

As for his tax returns and the secrecy that seems to be behind them... I think something will be revealed before the election that will either exonerate Romney or destroy him. Time will tell.

I DON'T KNOW ABOUT BAD FAITH, BUT I DO AGREE THAT THE STATEMENT WAS STUPID AND WILDLY INACCURATE. MANY IF NOT MOST OF THAT 47% WHO DON'T PAY ANY FEDERAL INCOME TAX DO PROVIDE FOR THEMSELVES. THEY JUST AREN'T REQUIRED TO, AND DON'T CONTRIBUTE INCOME TAX. I SAY GOOD FOR THEM. NONE OF THEIR MONEY WAS WASTED BY THE FEDS.

AS FAR AS SHELTERING MONEY IN OFFSHORE ACCOUNTS GOES, GOOD FOR HIM. AGAIN, THAT'S LESS OF HIS MONEY BEING WASTED BY THE GOVERNMENT. IF IT IS LEGAL, AND ENABLES HIM TO GIVE MORE TO CHARITY FIRSTHAND, THEN I'M ALL FOR IT. SAME WOULD GO FOR OBAMA IF HE WERE DOING THE SAME.

I'M FINDING CONFLICTING NUMBERS FOR WHAT PERCENTAGE OF HIS INCOME WAS GIVEN TO CHARITY, BUT FOR 2010, IT SEEMS LIKE AROUND 13 OR 14%, AND FOR 2011 THE NUMBERS I FIND RANGE FROM 20 PERCENT TO ALMOST 30%. A MUCH HIGHER PERCENTAGE THAN THE VAST MAJORITY OF AMERICANS PAY IN INCOME TAX, AND THEN HE PAID INCOME TAX IN ADDITION. I DON'T THINK IT IS ACCURATE TO SAY THAT HE HASN'T CONTRIBUTED HIS "FAIR SHARE".

OBAMA DEMANDS THAT "THE RICH" PAY MORE, BUT CONTRIBUTES VERY LITTLE TO CHARITY VOLUNTARILY. ROMNEY SAYS "THE RICH" PAY ENOUGH, AND VOLUNTARILY PARTS WITH A PRETTY SIZEABLE CHUNK OF HIS INCOME BEFORE IT IS SEIZED BY THE GOVERNMENT.

AND FINALLY, THIS DISCUSSION IS BECOMING ALL TOO CIVIL, AND IS STARTING TO COME PERILOUSLY CLOSE TO CUDDLE TIME, SO.... CANADA SUCKS!

HA!

SAM

Wow, just wow. Really? You stooped this low to post this? I am not going to even post anymore...because I am laughing that you think that you have to post against mormons. At least they aren't out there posting crap about your religion or you. ;)

P.S. go watch the ending of the mormon south park episode....there is my final answer to you :p

"There are 47 percent of the people who will vote for the president no matter what. All right, there are 47 percent who are with him, who are dependent upon government, who believe that they are victims, who believe the government has a responsibility to care for them, who believe that they are entitled to health care, to food, to housing, to you-name-it -- that that's an entitlement. And the government should give it to them. And they will vote for this president no matter what. ... These are people who pay no income tax. ... [M]y job is not to worry about those people. I'll never convince them they should take personal responsibility and care for their lives."

Care to restate your position? He said nothing like what you claim he did. And pretty close to what the other person said.

http://www.utlm.org/...leadersconceptofjesus.htm

These things are the reasons that people should have a problem with Romney's faith. It's fine for him to have his own beliefs, but very shady to have his running mate talking about how they have such similar beliefs. He's free to have them, but he sure should be called out for claiming Christianity in an orthodox sense.

"Welcome to the Official Website of Utah Lighthouse™ Ministry,
founded by Jerald and Sandra Tanner.
The purpose of this site is to document problems with the claims of Mormonism and compare LDS doctrines with Christianity."

One person's website and word against others.....It is on the internet! So it has to be true.....

LOSTMONK, WHY WOULD SAM RESTATE HIS POSITION? CONTEXT MATTERS.

RECALL THE CONTEXT IN WHICH THE "47%" REMARK WAS MADE. AT A FUND-RAISING DINNER. WHILE HE'S TALKING ABOUT WHY THESE PEOPLE SHOULD GIVE HIM MONEY FOR HIS RUN FOR PRESIDENT. NOT WHAT HE SHOULD/SHOULDN'T DO IF HE BECOMES PRESIDENT. IT'S NOT AT ALL DISSIMILAR TO WHAT ANY OTHER POLITICIAN DOES WHEN TALKING TO HIS/HER "BASE" - LIKE OBAMA'S CARICATURE OF PEOPLE WHO DISAGREE WITH HIM AS GUN-TOTIN' BIBLE-THUMPIN' REDNECKS.

ANYWAY, LIKE SAM SAID.. NOT SURE WHY WE'RE ARGUING THIS REALLY. EXCEPT THAT WHILE THE MIGHTY CLAN [DANGER]! CERTAINLY DOES NOT SUPPORT WILLARD MITT ROMNEY, AND THE MIGHTY CLAN [DANGER]! HAS NO OFFICIAL RELIGION (BUT IF THEY DID IT WOULD BE LUTHERAN), THE MIGHTY CLAN [DANGER]! THINKS PERSECUTING PEOPLE FOR THEIR RELIGIOUS BELIEFS IS DUMB.

BILL
MINISTER OF TOLERANCE
THE MIGHTY CLAN [DANGER]!

romney is a MORON omg I would have never guessed!

If you had bothered to read, it shows plenty of quotes from official LDS texts that relate to their beliefs. Who cares who posted it or why, its all about what the LDS themselves say about their beliefs. Like, straight from their own scriptures:

" Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from aeverlasting to everlasting, because they continue; then shall they be above all, because all things are subject unto them. Then shall they be bgods, because they have call power, and the angels are subject unto them."
http://www.lds.org/...ent/dc/132.20?lang=eng#19

I'm pretty much on record here (at least on FFAT and GT) ss one of the more outspoken Democrats, but Romney's Mormonism is a non-issue to me.

To my knowledge, he hasn't pushed for polygamy or institutional racism to be legalized in any of his previous stops, nor has he campaigned on this during either the 2008 or 2012 elections.

I'm not totally dismissive of group affiliations as being significant, but I don't think they're as significant as what someone says they're going to do or what they've actually done.

As Democrats, we're supposed to be the more open-minded and tolerant party. Let's not only extend that open-mindedness to people who might actually vote for our party but to everyone.

Twain, I'm exempt from the characterization of Democrat... cuz I'm Canadian. =)

And Galleri, I enjoy it when people try to make fun of my religion or beliefs. If someone can ridicule me into getting upset about it, I'm not very secure in what I believe now am I? If a system is really easy to mock, I feel that it must be mocked. This is libertarianism at its finest.

To me, Mormonism is more harmful that Scientology. I don't know if you've actually read up on some of the polygamist communes in the LDS world or people who have literally had to escape it... pretty frightening stuff. I don't condone any system that allows this kind of thing to happen. It's one of the major reasons why I rejected Christianity at the age of 23. Thank Christopher Hitchens, Neil deGrasse Tyson, and Carl Sagan for that.

To the DANGER clan: I'd like to leave you with an immortal question from Jon Stewart: "Why is it that if you take advantage of a tax break and you're a corporation you're a smart businessman, but if you take advantage of something that you need to not be hungry, you're a moocher?"

THE EASY ANSWER TO THAT IS :

THE CORPORATION OR "RICH PERSON" IS KEEPING THE FRUITS OF ITS OR HIS OWN LABOR. THE OTHER IS TAKING THE FRUITS OF SOMEONE ELSE'S LABOR.

THAT SAID, THE PERSON IN NEED IS NOT A MOOCH SIMPLY FOR TAKING ADVANTAGE OF EXISTING PROGRAMS, ANY MORE THAN THE "RICH PERSON" IS EVIL FOR TAKING ADVANTAGE OF WHATEVER TAX BREAKS MAY BE AVAILABLE.

+100

Oh, and just so you know, theologically sound Christians all over this country are talking about this. Huge debates over Obama staying in office, or electing the first non-Christian into office.

first non christian? LMAO.
yes make sure you all continue to persecute those that don't fit into your agenda. This is exactly what Jesus WOULDN'T do. I can't wait until a Pagan or a Athiest starts running.
Better yet, let's all continue to separate our race etc....and just throw stabs at each other. Good Job. God is proud of you. ;)
And don't give me that "we are not perfect" line again...oh wait Sunday's make repenting each week ok.

an athiest will never get elected because there are too many stupid voters (read: people who believe in a god).

im not even sure why someones religous standing should matter as there is supposed to be a seperation of church and state.

Do you think Romney is donating to charity out of the goodness of his heart? He is doing so because he can only secret so much of his massive fortune away, and the rest is still liable to be taxed. So good on him for donating to charity, if only to avoid paying any taxes. As for Obama, you realize he makes several orders of magnitude less than Romney does? He doesn't face the dilemma of 'Do I donate it, or pay more to the government' because he isn't exactly rich.

As far as your 47% interpretation, as others have said, you apparently don't see why people are upset about that. Everyone understands that he was pandering to his crowd at a fundraising dinner. Doesn't make what he said any less disgusting. He said the entire Democratic base doesn't pay taxes and relies on government handouts and doesn't work hard. How fluffed up is that? Not to mention the fact that many people on BOTH sides either don't pay taxes or rely on government safety net programs. Hell, I didn't pay taxes until just a few years ago because I was a student and made barely enough to support myself. I guess Romney doesn't give a fluff about me.

It's not the topic of discourse that is base. It is the level of discourse on the topic.

The simplistic caricatures and sensational myths that are thrown about are as deceiving and disingenuous as how I explain football to others: Big burly men who wear spandex while chasing and grabbing one another from behind. They push each other to the ground and get excited after they jump on one another's backs.
The difference is that I, and the people I talk to, know it is a facetious description. With the LDS church it seems that some people are all too willing to accept the 'facts' presented free from any context and in the most ludicrous sounding manner possible.

For Americans the social, doctrinal and cultural developments within Mormonism should be a serious study topic because of the reflection it provides on mainstream America, especially mainstream Christianity within America. Rather the lowest road possible is taken and conversation is reduced to the soundbytes that the LDS focused equivalent of the Westboro Church towards gays has pushed for the past several decades. And people chose to eat up that storyline like they eat up MacDonalds and its empty calories.

That said, I think it is extremely important to discuss his religious motivations. But people cannot do that in any meaningful way when they continually hear, chose to listen and repeat as gospel the type of discourse you are pushing.

south park put it best


dumb dumb dumb dumb

Here are the facts. Mitt Romney is a member of the Church of LDS.

Here is what the Church of LDS believes.

I've had conversations with people who have left the Mormon church and have told me these things are true... unapologetically true.

Ok, so polygamy and racism are definitely not considered mainstream Mormonism... I get that. I'm not calling Romney a racist (or a polygamist) because of his religious beliefs at all... but he was a bishop in the church and is closely tied to his church.

This is going to be important to voters who know little about Mormonism and its mysteries.

dang you have skewed view :)


1. Blacks had been members of the church since founding. They however couldn't hold the priesthood until the 70's.

There were LDS people on both sides of the debate back during the civil war, some pro some anti slaves, much like was in every other religion/family/state at the time.

2. Your jibber-jabber about polygamy.. here's a statement from back around the time the church had it banned (over 120 years ago) ... if you want to go that far back, I assert that your great great grandfather was a crossdresser and therefore you are :)
"Press dispatches having been sent for political purposes, from Salt Lake City, which have been widely published, to the effect that the Utah Commission, in their recent report to the Secretary of the Interior, allege that plural marriages are still being solemnized and that forty or more such marriages have been contracted in Utah since last June or during the past year, also that in public discourses the leaders of the Church have taught, encouraged and urged the continuance of the practice of polygamy—

I, therefore, as President of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, do hereby, in the most solemn manner, declare that these charges are false. We are not teaching polygamy or plural marriage, nor permitting any person to enter into its practice, and I deny that either forty or any other number of plural marriages have during that period been solemnized in our Temples or in any other place in the Territory.

One case has been reported, in which the parties allege that the marriage was performed in the Endowment House, in Salt Lake City, in the Spring of 1889, but I have not been able to learn who performed the ceremony; whatever was done in this matter was without my knowledge. In consequence of this alleged occurrence the Endowment House was, by my instructions, taken down without delay.

Inasmuch as laws have been enacted by Congress forbidding plural marriages, which laws have been pronounced constitutional by the court of last resort, I hereby declare my intention to submit to those laws, and to use my influence with the members of the Church over which I preside to have them do likewise.

There is nothing in my teachings to the Church or in those of my associates, during the time specified, which can be reasonably construed to inculcate or encourage polygamy; and when any Elder of the Church has used language which appeared to convey any such teaching, he has been promptly reproved. And I now publicly declare that my advice to the Latter-day Saints is to refrain from contracting any marriage forbidden by the law of the land.



Wilford Woodruff

President of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints."

I'll just quote myself as a defence: "Ok, so polygamy and racism are definitely NOT considered mainstream Mormonism..."

My point is, there are splinter sects that still practice these things. I know this because polygamy happens in a place called Bountiful, British Columbia, Canada.

http://www.cbc.ca/...2/bc-polygamy-ruling.html

This is, by no means, a litmus test for the entire religion/cult (don't worry, I call Christianity a cult too). And, as for there being racist Mormons... there are plenty of racist (insert any religion here)'s which are not considered church/temple/synagogue doctrine (anymore).

So if that's "skewed" then you have just converted me to LDS. =)

You can say that Mormonism is far from mainline Protestant faiths, but as they believe in Jesus Christ, I don't see how you can argue they aren't Christians. What is a Christian but a follower of Christ? Richard Nixon was a quaker, which I would say is less Christian than Mormonism as quakers aren't necessarily Christian.

yes this x100. who cares? as long as the religion doesnt get in the way of running the country, it doesn't make a difference. and if it does, it doesnt matter in what way it does because it shouldnt be affecting it anyhow.

Nice troll BTW to Dissident, well played sir.

That would be because once you learn the Mormon thoughts on Jesus, you learn that the Jesus they proclaim is far from the Jesus of the bible. Very much the same as the Jesus the Muslims talk about is just as far away. Should we be calling Muslims Christians because they believe in Jesus as well?

No, we should evolve beyond letting our civilizations (sic) be steered by antiquated fairy tale dogma.

As a FYI, these types of attitudes have the same essence and provenance as the ramblings of the more ignorant religious persons. The words are different but the message the same. The message imparts a little view of your mental processses, the words are essentially vacuous.

Whatever your perspective - right to left, atheist to theist - minimalizing the 'other side' accomplishes nothing but satisfy pride, reinforce bias and promote ignorance.

Sure, it's online chat in a generally non-serious forum. But I hope that in real life you would never speak to my face in such dismissive manners as I hope I would never do to someone else.

And Dissident, you have to ask yourself sometimes when applying a caricature to judge others: If you were face to face with the person(s) you are accusing, would you feel reasonable or comfortable making those same accusations?

If you haven't noticed already the internet is a very effective creator/purveyor of fairytales and myths by heavily disconnecting trivia from reality and then resorting to the trivia as definitive of the reality.

But please, if you're going to stick to smearing politicians at least localize the hit. When you use Mormonism as a tool to beat Romney you are indirectly beating a lot of other people. Politicians willingly accept the abuse and political theatrics. You just need to be a little more considerate and careful that your political battles do not end up accusing millions of others of overt racism or anything else derogatory that you would not feel comfortable saying to their faces.

Well, if you've been reading along, you'd see that I'm not whitewashing mormons on racism... But I definitely would challenge ANY mormon on their beliefs face to face. If that's problematic for them, then I can tell they are struggling with their own faith... As one man's arguments should not be enough to sway you from your faith if its strong.

As for romney, I'd challenge his religious beliefs face to face as well.

:Dissident: The case in Bountiful and the groups in South Eastern Utah are not members nor have any affiliation with the LDS church.

Instead they are breakoffs from over 100+ years ago that wanted to do things there way, trying to form a linkage between the two is misleading and skewing the facts.

It be like asserting that the KKK was Baptist :P


Lost Monk: The Muslim view of Christ is that he was a prophet. The LDS view of Christ is that he is the Lord, Only Begotten Son of God, The Redeemer, Divine, and Perfect, and only through his sacrifice was/is it possible for them to get to heaven. The Catholic point of view that he is one and part of God is different from Mormons as Mormons view the three as 3 seperate beings, God and Christ with Bodies and the H.G. without. That the "they are the same" comes in athat they are all divine and perfect and in that way the same. As such they are Christian.

I don't see how seeing as how the New Testament is central to Mormonism. Mormons believe Christ to be the son of God and that his crucifixition attoned for the sins of the world.

Its simply wrong to compare it to Muslim belief in Jesus. Muslims believe Jesus was merely a prophet, not the savior of the world as Mormons and Christians do.

There are many parts of fundamental christianity that are very very different... And more appealing! Like... Hey, if you save a certain amount of people, you will be a god on your own planet. I believe Mormonism coopted parts of christianity in order to gain a larger following. There a parts of the book of mormon that say, and I'm paraphrasing, we have prophets who are actively talking with God. If he tells a prophet to do something, that order will overrule the Bible's law.

But I do not believe they are christian, as such... And many Mormons feel they are not christian either