Ah never mind I did see the sof pact before it was signed, but not the LaF one, which was signed first. My mistake. Either way, I was retired and the hfa made a decision, so it must be honored.

And Anoniem, cut it out. My predecessor signed a pact. Do you really think I would dishonor him by dissolving it, even if the offer was made? We stick to our pacts. They WILL be honored. I grow weary of your lamentations. Go pontificate somewhere else.

You already dishonoured him by slating SoF publicly as soon as you were made a leader again.

Now you can apologise to RD on your predecessors behalf. I'm sure RD would be extremely grateful to you, and then I can move on.

I didn't realize the United Nations appointed you as special rapporteur for RD. Anyway, if you don't want to move on, that's your business. Stay behind while the rest of us move forward, including RD.

You should look at yourself and your lack of diplomatic skills as to why you were hit. And not just you, other leaders as well. If you threaten an Alliance and act hostile to an Alliance, why do you act surprised when we treat you as a hostile? You had an opportunity to make peace with SoF after the first war but instead you chose not to make peace.





You threw away more than that because I was working hard to bring Evo closer to SoF and mainly because you were a MXer. Not flaming you for it but rather pointing this out to support your own argument, but I look after my allies and I was working towards making Evo one at the time. You basically stabbed me in the back ;)

Like I said before Sov - it was because of my distrust of Ivan. I didn't think it could work, so I chose pdm. For some idiotic reason I listened to pang, despite him having been a snake to me in the past.

Ah well. Best of luck in the future Sov. It's only a game after all, so no hard feelings ;)


As for pdm being liars/hypocrites/cowards here you go:

<Boltar>: he (pang) claims he has no say in pdm right?
why during a FA conversation this is brought up
Message Body:
ok, leadership refuses to have any land trading clause of any kind in the pact. LaF's didn't have anything to do with landtrading in it either.
archaic, detmer and pang all had the world's biggest say about it.

archaic and detmer inactive?? pang not playing in pdm? well, that message says you're all fluffing liars.


Tan, if this were a spelling bee you'd get top marks.

so now you hit pdm because we acted hostile?

but ivan already said it was RD's intel on PDM's plans...

you could have at least given us a challenging, worthwhile war... we had the courtesy to do that to you guys. hitting a clearly unprepared opponent so early on, when you were told that they had no intention of hitting you, is low now matter how you slice it. you can't claim the moral high ground that "all our wars are with opponents who wanted the wars" -- which was my point all along. you're just trying to spin a different discussion topic.

also, you never offered us any pacts that weren't full of terms that were unacceptable (that essentially allowed SoF to topfeed many of our countries). or at least they were never shared with me.

ps. i do have no say in PDM; i was asked to weigh in though on the pact terms by balin or detmer or someone, so I did. i am actually very inactive, despite how much you wish I was pulling all the strings.

lies

truths. i never saw a pact with normal terms. not from sof, not through rd, not through laf. sof was explicitly told on multiple occassions over multiple rounds that we would be happy to pact sof but weren't going to accept any crazy terms. i dunno... but it was common knowledge we would accept a regular pact with sof. i also told that to laf as well. we had no beef with sof other than sof continuing to provoke us.

Nope.

Yep.

this is coming from a player who topfeeds other netting alliances, then jumps 30mil nw just to provoke them.

you forget -- lens provoked me (and other PDM'ers) to the point ppl wanted to hit him. you act as though Evo never does anything wrong. if you want to run a top country, don't retal other countries that will "give better returns" or whatever the logic he used was.

and that's the singular issue where I've ever hit Evo or any other netting tag in a way that was detrimental to a player's finish lol. i bet you've suicided laf more than I've even grabbed evo.

it was a good grab because it made my crap country less crappy. i play a spy country + retal'er + fa issue country when I play. i don't think i could finish top10 anymore even if i tried, though.

keep on spinning, the game runs on it!

This argument really needs to be put to rest. Anoniem isn't even part of the equation anymore.

Apologies to Evo, but we signed a pact with SoF and LaF. Hopefully it will lead to something fruitful. Hopefully it works out for the best for everyone, and hopefully everyone can move on.

he's just spouting random hate now... he had a nice run of it in #ee :p

let him get it out of his system or he'll be up all night on a work night and be all cranky tomorrow. i don't want to see the game negatively impact people irl :)

^ What TAN said. Let's put this aside and let some new political drama involving new sides start up while I sit with my popcorn and watch. All this crap has gotten old...

Did Archaic honestly think Laf would blindside them 3 sets from now and that is why he quit? It is funny how sinister we all see eachother. Hell, if there wasn't a good reason beyond the fact that PDM joined in the war last set to hit them, I'd leave Laf if we did that crap. I havn't seen many people who want these hostilities to continue on either side to be honest. I think any wars that happen in the future will hopefully be because of things that happen after now -_- I see no chance of Laf and Sof hitting PDM the moment the pacts are done if anyone works to solve the current problems.

And PDM has no plans to war SoF, LaF or really anyone else in 2, 3 or 4 sets.

There are plenty of Alliances out there of varying size that never have any issues with SoF and that is because they do their thing and keep out of our way. When we have issues they resolve them. They do not suck up to us, they just negotiate with us diplomatically.

If an Alliance acts hostile to us we will treat it as hostile. It is as simple as that. If you don't want to end up in a war with us, do not incite one.

Unless PDM gives us reason to go after them we will not be going after PDM. If PDM seeks to be friendly with SoF then we will work on that. If PDM just seeks to be neutral with SoF that is fine too. Diplomacy is the key, but too often these days Alliance leaders ignore diplomacy.

So, there's no need to worry about me being late for work in the morning. I'm enjoying my summer.

+1

We're at country #800 already on Day 8.
Last reset we were on country #750 at Day 8.

hmmm, llarr must be feeling better . . .

;p

anoniem: let's talk about hypocrisy for a minute shall we? it was sol and evo who told us, and that we accordingly passed on to sof in our discussion with them, that we had decided to leave SoF/LaF alone, and war internally. next thing, we turn around and you and sol had FS'd laf. didn't talk to us about the change in plans before doing it.
Before you go sounding off about PDM, look to your own actions.
You were also EXPLICITLY told from the outset, that PDM's joining in was a ONE SET DEAL.
that means this set we were pacting out regardless.

If this took place over IRC, I'd really like to take a look at the logs of this conversation since I wasn't involved but am getting shat on anyway.

drow you weren't even an FA contact and had no access to the joint forums, so how exactly would you know? where was this explicit mention of intent? unless, you are referring to pdm saying we will not attack until md does?

it would be inappropriate of me to start quoting what pdm leaders actually said, but i will tell you this - they were more than happy to go up against laf/sof. there were only reservations when it became apparent that if we did declare war that we'd probably lose. i was against wimping out at the prospect of losing, because sometimes war is about more than that; however i did agree to a friendly war, and it was my idea to make it into a battle royale.

anybody with a brain knows why the friendly war didn't occur and who was behind driving sol/evo to fs laf, despite in principle agreeing to a 4-way battle royale.

at any rate, that is not the issue at hand, because pdm offered me an fdp. i did not go out of my way to become friendly with your alliance - it was more a coming together due to the increasingly good nature of our open grabbing pact.

the issue is pacting out and leaving your fdp out to dry. you do not sign an fdp if you have no intention of honouring it for the long-term. i don't like the way some of you are trying to spin this into evo wanting to fight sof. evo have never wanted to fight sof, but i chose to fdp pdm over the choice of bettering relations with sof and keeping our 1 year unap. what does that mean? i expect pdm to stand by evo for at least 1 year, until we both come to a consensus with sof. dropping the pact with sof did not help evo in anyway, but was to try and give pdm some leverage and allow you to perhaps someday in the future to sign a mutually agreeable pact with them.

P.S. I have quotes of Detmer saying that once it's all over that we'd no longer work as a coalition (the four alliances involved), but when the same opposing alliances are a threat for the following reset - that doesn't sound like things blowing over.

n.b. what you are saying is highly contradictory to what archaic, detmer and balin had been saying before they became "inactive".

also, i wouldn't have posted anything about pdm's indiscretions, if i didn't see constant hypocritical (from my perspective) trashing of rd by pdm. that annoyed me to no extent.

During the run up to the war I gave drow my user/pass so he could get up to speed while I was on a business trip.

Why are we fighting about this?

Pdm's pacting within the coalition, on the front end and the back end was 100% my responsibility. I am the one that pacted sof and laf to get Pdm out of the war and I'm the one that left evo out in the cold. Quit beating up on TAN and. drow about something that they had no role in. I fluffed it up and I resigned over it.

Jeeze, enough already.

So whats the fs date for evo vs pdm? I want to farm you both before you kill each othet

dear chaz,
i'm not in evo and archaic isn't in pdm.

Doesn't mean land isn't just about as drool worthy with these changes :P

SOL is ranked too high

evo vs pdm! lol sperm coalition is falling to pieces

You people really thrive off creating drama where there doesn't have to be any don't you?

Before you spin this, this is a generic "You people" that includes pdm folks and others instigating things that don't exist.

...I need to stop reading AT and just start just playing my country

What if someone posts on at looking for pdm fa

Then they've already created the drama!

Well this thread got interesting.