This post provides a full background to the best of my recollection of the events that have lead up to today. There were many more discussions that sit between this story that remain between me and respective alliance leaders and I intend to maintain that confidentiality. I apologise for the length but much has happened and I felt it would be useful for MD’ers and the wider server to see this.

I mean if I just posted it on MD’s boxcar you’d all see it anyway right?

---

I. The history

2005/06

I was President of MD from late 2005 to early 2006. During this time we were not allied to LaF, they were a uNAP alliance. Over that time I had had various run ins with both RD and later LaF. RD mainly because I was attempting to mediate a ceasefire between a then very demoralised PDM (they had been botted for months if not years and I still regard them as the greatest alliance in Earth history for what they stood up to and for). I remember this specifically because I had council access in PDM and was offered a lot of “things” including $ for the login and password. Over this period I became relatively close to LemonChiffon and that for a time ensured MD protection from RD and facilitated discussions with RD/PDM, albeit no deal was ever made.

During the same time MD has a few run ins with LaF. Over what exactly I honestly do not remember. It got to the point where war was highly likely. However, H4 came to me over GT message as it was then and we signed a uNAP with an FDP break clause. Three weeks in to the reset, LaF blindside FS’d MD through the uNAP denying its existence and then arguing a technicality when logs were produced. (Sounds familiar does it?). MD lost the war that reset. For what it’s worth LaF are not completely useless players with total surprise against a MD with no turns they did still manage to beat us. I have many stories of the courage and superhuman efforts of many MD’ers during that war (we have multiple countries with 1000+ defends - NuKeR) but that’s not relevant to this discussion.

The following reset MD did not pact LaF and was 100% prepared for retaliation. Within days of our FS we were botted. Initially given my relationship with LC, I went to him and asked what happened. He indicated that he had put MD on DNH within RD and that only a “higher” colour could override it. The MD heads and I suspected LaF given the obvious timing. We proceeded to get the IP addresses of LaF’s senior leadership and run them against RD logs (with the help of LC). TurtleCrawler the Don of LaF at the time was positively matched as Mr. Cream. Mr. Cream was a lower RD colour than LC and had therefore broken RD rules. LC therefore helped me obtain a printscreen of the RD logs page. We got a IP match with TC over IRC and confronted LaF. Denials followed and further evidence came out regarding the bot countries and their link to countries run in RD by Mr. Cream.

This evidence was posted that reset on AT and TurtleCrawler was “removed” from being Don of LaF the following reset. He was never booted or banned, H4 who signed and then broke a uNAP with MD was not punished and remained LaF FR. LaF continued along without any consequences.



2012

MD came back to EE after a long absence (thanks to Locutus and Amira – who both are legends of MD). Locutus was the architect and basically leader of MD during the first one or two resets. He re-connected with traditional allies such as SoF, LCN, Omega and learnt from them and LaF that SOL had been treating them poorly. It was our first set back and it was as good a reason as any to war. Locutus may wish to provide further colour on these decisions I was not directly involved. In anycase we helped traditional allies there wasn’t much more to it than that.

Over the next few resets as follow on conflicts occurred and I returned to senior MD leadership our relationship with LaF became increasingly troublesome. SOL FS’d LCN and MD when we specifically asked LaF not to pact out (yet they did, uNAP with FDP clause, knowing full well that this meant someone else i.e. MD would take the SOL FS – I had specifically asked Hanlong not to do this but he did anyway). These smaller instances confirmed other things we noticed, including constant talk of manipulating alliances and “cornering” SOL. It is my contention and one of my mistakes that I let interference from LaF diminish MD’s relationship with LCN that reset. I have since apologised to LCN and hope to rebuild trust with them over time.

Things continued along these lines, with a clear view that MD was an FDP of convenience for LaF. MD for its part did raise concerns with SoF and I had a particularly detailed discussion with Ivan asking that SoF sign an out clause with LaF in future resets incase MD was betrayed and FS’d. No such clause was signed.

The following reset things continued in the same vein. But MD had grown significantly and was now looking for a big challenge. We had probably established ourselves as the #2 alliance at that point and was looking for a war. After having no luck with SoF I spoke with Makinso and KJ. I have grown to respect Makinso following the MD/SOL wars – we hit him we had a clean war, he hit us we had a clean war. It’s all anyone can ask in this game. I suggested that MD wished to fight LaF and that if possible I would like to arrange a 1v1 the following reset. Makinso and KJ both agreed to facilitate this.

Last reset we were hacked. The MD heads forum (called “The Wiz Room” – for the last 12 years) was breached and logs posted there by me of a conversation I had with KJ and Makinso were stolen. Those logs showed planning for a 1v1 between MD and LaF the following set instigated by me with the full support of the MD heads. This strategy had been explained to my members and had full agreement. This war was to test who was the best alliance in earth, MD with 70 members, LaF with c.80.

In the lead up to our FS date and time, we suspected there had been a breach in Boxcar. TurtleCrawler had resurfaced and was seen on AT and logged in to Boxcar. And LaF’s country setup was perfectly shaped to answer MD’s setup.

We suspected a spy within the lower levels of MD and went to great lengths to isolate information to senior members of the alliance. Turn saving was staggered by access level so no one person could know what the alliance was at. Access other MD’ers ops were disabled.

The week before the FS, LaF began to rapidly jump. First to our size then higher and higher, until just before our FS they had (from memory) c.20 countries bigger than our biggest country. Now LaF may be better netgainers than us, but not 1 or 2 resets before MD finished with ANW of $90m and took TNW – they aren’t that much better. They had c.20 guys bigger than our best player Highrock. I tell you right now that guy is a genius at this game so what was happening was pretty unbelievable to us. The public market was high from MD’ers buying up (and we though LaF’ers to) so we just could not believe the military levels LaF’ers had and the cash they had. Guys were twice our size with the same cash and stock as us after having bought up.

At the time we thought we had been “outplayed” – I was very skeptical but had no proof. We knew for sure following their FS and “posting of logs” (how ridiculous to hack and steal them and then post them and pretend to be the good guy) that they had hacked MD as noone leaked them. At this stage we did not know they also cheated in-game. Hanlong defended claims of hacking by saying he had “detailed tools to track FS time and date”. LaF FS’d at the EXACT time MD was planned to FS. No turn saving tracking tool tells you the EXACT to the hour time another alliance will FS. His excuses on this and running a “web search bot” or whatever to find the logs were ridiculous back then and have been proven complete fabrications now.



II. The fall out on AT

So LaF came on AT and tried to drag me and MD through the mud. You tried to make out that I held a grudge and that I was backstabbing you. You used your own cheating to legitimise your claims.

While you trolled and poked fun at MD, MD sat quietly and refused to engage in AT yelling matches. We let alliances make up there own mind. We let our reputation and personal dealings tell the story.

MD has a long standing policy not to engage in AT politics and I continue to be proud of my guys. They were screaming inside to fight back against the slander aimed at them on this board by LaF and others (you all know who you are). They stood by and took the high road and bore the brunt of these attacks. A number of them were aimed at me personally. Hanlong you personally worked to have me removed from MD leadership. Everytime it was suggested internally that we speak out, that we make a statement that we respond I simply said this: “every moment they concentrate on me, is a moment that don’t concentrate on MD – let them come.”

So we let them come in the knowledge that they had cheated and hacked and that perhaps one day we would be vindicated.

Today we’ve been vindicated, completely without reservation, without argument and without rebuttal. The following things have occurred:

1. LaF have hacked MD’s boxcar (and potentially everyone elses)
2. LaF have hacked MD’s AT forum messages (and potentially everyone elses)
3. LaF have hacked in-game to increase their countries power against AT LEAST MD and this reset SoL
4. LaF have lied to AT, to almost every alliance leader and FA in this game.
5. LaF’s cheating has come directly from the top and is widespread including multiple countries and numerous leaders and members. (it may have been two people but it benefited many countries and many members)

LaF resorted to this cheating because they knew they would lose 1v1 against MD.



III. The aftermath

Another alliance would spend the next few days going back through the AT posts for the last two resets picking out all those people who tore MD down for what happened last reset.

But MD does not operate this way. And despite everything we have and continue to maintain integrity in the way we conduct ourselves – in the game and out. We hold no grudges. What we do, do is make-sure that lessons are learnt and that we stand up for
what’s right in this game.

Today I announce the following MD positions:

1. MD will not pact LaF in any form for at least the next six months
2. MD will act to protect (including go to war for) any alliance which also chooses not
to pact LaF in the next six months
3. MD with immediate effect rescinds its uNAP with LaF
4. MD calls for the immediate removal of all known cheaters from LaF and an
opening up of LaF’s complete IP logs to all interested alliances in EE to provide
comparison for the identification of spies.

MD believes that every alliance in this game needs to set an example (unlike throughout the history of earth where we have not: think RD, think TurtleCrawler botting MD etc).

I say to every alliance leader in earth, if you want to lift the discourse of this game you will drop LaF and let them earn the respect of the server back over the next six months. I say to every small tag you can do this to and I commit and I hope other like minded alliances also commit that we will protect you if LaF tries to punish you for this decision.



IV. Final thoughts

In hindsight it all made a lot of sense, but at the time few in earth would listen to the vocal minority. I give special mention to M_A_C, Jax and Highrock all of whom were particularly perceptive and gave me great advice over the last two resets. MD has some amazing war guys and they fought against the impossible, Kalick, Slash, MO, Daved, Wulf, Y-Not (I can’t name you all) – amazing. I’d like to personally thank Makinso and KJ for maintaining their word from when this all started. I want to thank Detmer for his council and support of MD - you and your alliance are true friends and I respect you immensely. I want to thank Helmet who I have always found to be reasonable and forthright albeit mate I have to say to you and only you “I told you so.”=)

I give my gratitude to every person who played for me and MD – for trusting me when I said this is what LaF was doing and for sticking with it even when our allies said we were crazy.

I do not want TurtleCrawler or Hanlong to stop playing this game, I do not want any LaF’ers to stop playing this game. I just want you to start playing it properly. I honestly have no personal grudge against either of you. Just don’t cheat and play fair.

LaF members who feel unfairly painted based on the actions of your leaders I hope will find open arms around the server. I know MD will hold no grudge if you apply.

This is the second time I have been in conflict with LaF, this is the second time TurtleCrawler has been found to cheat, this is the second time I have seen the disgraced removal of a sitting LaF Don. I sincerely hope there isn't a third.


Arsenal
President
Moral Decay

+1











+1 for podolski as well

Well-written, Arsenal.

I thought you to be paranoid Arsenal. How wrong I was. Your spidey sense was working fine =P

Well-written. Your requests are not unreasonable and I hope that they are complied with.

To ask the entire server to drop a historically netgaining alliance because of the actions of a disgraced ex-leader is a little harsh don't you think? If the general membership has been misled by their former leader, does this necessarily mean that they should be held equally accountable and left to pay for the sins of the same disgraced leader?

Having said that, if any of the game admins would like IP logs, I'd be more than happy to assist them with their investigation.

due to what I presume to be truth from my contacts in LaF, I read the phrase 'LaF' in your posts as 'HLW and TC' unless its proven otherwise that more were involved.

Oh, and if you have any to spare, I'd definitely be interested in purchasing one of your legendary tinfoil hats. They're spot-on.



(I had to spice it up with some humor... is that so wrong?) :)

Well said. +1

Confirmed

There is a small precedent for dropping pacts for netting alliances when people in their leadership have been found to be cheating.

Take a look at what happened to NA in the Apr 3-Jun 2, 2010 reset. Some of NA's leadership was caught out in a cheating scandal, where they were running multis, using a PAID proxy service, in the FFA server (remember the LaE cheating scandal?). In the Alliance server, SOL immediately dropped their pact with NA, FSed them, and demolished them. Granted, it was right at 2 years ago, and it was just one alliance breaking pacts with another. However, I still feel this applies, because it happened in Earth:Empires.

Nice post Arsenal!

So you think the 20 countries that were above your top country were receiving cheat aid?

In this case there are more than 2 persons involved in this.

While arsenal's history is a long way off (i.e. it was md that blindsided laf, laf hit you in revenge for that attack and you knew it was coming)

I cant disagree with the voiding of pacts etc, if the shoe was on the other foot its exactly what i would do.

Just to be clear we are not looking for a precedent. We are doing it end of story. If anyone else wants to we encourage it but we can not force people. Everyone needs to make their own decisions.

It's amazing how much people will stick their head in the sand for LaF. The average grunt may not have known but you don't cheat your way to 20 countries higher than MD's highest with only two people knowing about it. Does. Not. Happen.

Just saying...it's been done before.

well posted.

Arsenal, i had the second largest stock and pretty much the joint largest income going into that war and i encourage any admin to look at any of my countries for any hint of illegitimacy. I cant say hlw/tc's countries were legit, given the evidence against them it is unlikely. But those 20 others you refer to, all were, and frankly if anyone finds that they wernt and that cheating was more widespread i would quit the game entirely.

I don`t think more legit players should quit the game at this point.

I think the cheaters should be forced out and legit players somehow convinced to stay.

Laf was sadly a one man show - and now the legit players will take it in the ass for that.

No offense to highrock, he is a good netgainer, but frankly his country last reset was balls, and im sure he'd be the first to admit it. And considering that he the only person in md actively landgrabing that i can recall, its not at all surprising laf had a breaker advantage. Generally the gap between all-x strats isnt huge, but i would still imagine laf's all-x strats are more optimized than md's (which is no insult to them, more just a reflection of some of the math skills certain lafers posses.)

Irrespective SS. Your whole war planning was perfectly geared to beat us down to the millimeter. It was obviously based on inside information. Putting aside physical country manipulation.

The mod's probably haven't had time to look at all the MD countries, what's the bet my troops were reduced by some factor during the war as well?

It doesn't matter how they cheated it is absolutely 100% clear there was widespread cheating used to beat us from country manipulation to boxcar hacking to earth databases being access to see MD country stats.

It was a complete fraud, any attempt to defend LaF for its actions is a waste of time.

MD came back to EE after a long absence (thanks to Locutus and Amira – who both are legends of MD)

-AND BOMBAY!!!! PFFF, I get no respect

And Bombay.

I would like to believe there is minimal cheating in LaF's ranks. But let me make my concerns clear...

I assume that LaF, like many alliances, shares a lot of information. This includes spy-ops, market-ops, news bots, etc. The problem is that with unlimited access to information both in-game and on alliance sites (such as Boxcar) the information that *may* have been fed into LaF's site is also UNLIMITED.

From the outside, we have no way of knowing how much ill-gotten information helped legitimate players. I assume there were plenty of perfectly legitimate players in LaF who benefited thus indirectly from the hacking.

The best measure going forward will be LaF's performance without the hacking. But, like it or not, past performance of LaF *is* in doubt due to this "halo" effect.

We should separate the doubt of the results from the doubt of the people. I sit in the fence in this. I "doubt" it was just 2 people who knew about the hacking. But at the same time, I am convinced a lot of LaF members were screwed by this and their own results, which they believed to be legitimate, are now not legitimate, IMHO.

I hope LaF is able to return from this someday.

As for the 6-month no-pact for LaF... I believe LaF is very familiar with long-term pacts, so a long-term "no-pact" shouldn't be hard to comprehend. ;)

I hit top 25 and around 130 mil NW with our un-optimized all-xplore farmer 2 rounds ago.

Im not trying to defend hlw/tc, im just saying the people you are accusing of cheating didnt.

We prepared for a war based on the time hlw set to war, it disgusts me to know how he knew the time to prepare for that war. But the strategies created for that war created the 20 odd countries larger than highrock.

At the moment you're using what did happen, to suggest other things happened, when there is absolutely no evidence of it. LaFs countries were not enhanced, MD's countries were not reduced, I know because I personally ran a great deal of those warchats, I know because I broke more md countries than anyone else.

It is completely fluffed up what hlw/tc did, I dont deny it, i wont try to hide it, chances are im more pissed off about it than you are. But dont try to claim I cheated or that 20+ laffers were cheating, i never have, and never will, and considering most of the laffers were running strats created by or supervised by me/goku i can guarantee the legitimacy of their stocks as well.

what Atryn said.

Look forward to future battles, I'm sure there are quite a few (very) talented players in LaF, and I will very mush like seeing them prove themselves, without any doubt

Nice post, some things are probably seen through MD glasses, but nicely wirtten. I can understand all the "MD positions" offered (and I think many others will to).

The only thing that I'm skeptical of is you claim that multiple as in >10 countries in LaF were hacked pre-MD war "to increase their countries power against MD".
Oviously opening all LaF IP and other logs to selected alliance leaders/admins can help with this, but it seems unlikely. The more people know of it, the bigger the risk of Hanlong getting found out would have been and sending random GOD-aid to 20 countries is a sure way of getting "his secret" out.

Other than that, again, I agree and I hope LaF leadership is also listening.

(edit: ninjad by everybody)

This is a very well thought out and worded post Arsenal. Much respect to you and everyone in MD that contributed to this. I have to say that it 100% completely makes sense, the things which you ask for.

MD has been fantastic in returning to the game save for their participation in a gangbang their first set and maybe not standing up and fighting an even war in the second. A lot of SOL members were disappointed but true to form MD have always been one of the most honorable and decent alliances in the game and grudges are very hard to hold against them. Great post and I love the initiative.

It's unfortunate you decided to fill this serious post with further allegations of cheating that are completely unfounded. Being one of the countries in the top 5 I welcome any admin to look for ANY form of cheating. Those countries were excellently prepared because they were ran by great players who spent the time and effort to get them ready for war.

Our initial plan was to prepare for war a week earlier, so whether hanlong had the time of your FS or not LaF would have been prepared. I know this because I'm the one who personally saw to it.

I welcome you or the admins to find any proof of others cheating so it can be dealt with.

Does that mean you are offering full admin access to your site SG? That would be needed to at least verify logs and such, and see any suspicious behavior.

That is the whole point Goku. Because of your leadership cheating, you setup and ran 70 tyr techers. MD did not setup and run 70 tyr techers. It lead to you having an unfair advantage, one that you will never and would never have had. MD ran majority of farmers, which as you know in all your netting glory, typically comes into full war prep several weeks later. MD was raped, destroyed and embarressed last round. We paid with it in our membership numbers, lies and propaganda from LaF to our friends in SoF, LCN, Omega etc etc etc.

Go fluff yourself Goku for saying this. Its the chicken vs the egg argument and it resulted a BS netting records that were gained from a direct result of your leadership cheating and winning a war, which gave you the most prestigious land fat countries to farm that you have ever seen.

Stop trying to say you were legit. Im sure you were. You know that war prep is based on timing, and your timing was perfect and lead to an unfair advantage.

isn't the LaF site on boxcar? so, wouldn't the admins of the game already have full access? or is TC in charge of it?

You do have to wonder about Hanlong tho, knowing he got the information he did in an illegitimate way and still being so propaganda heavy. He must have felt untouchable.

Well being able to access something and having permission to do so are two different things. So they might be able to do it, simply because the data is on a hard drive on one of their servers, but it does not mean they are accessing it. If so that would be a breach of confidentially in itself :P

Basically like North Korea and Iran, LaF needs to allow observers into their site in order to inspect it for any hints towards more fluff in the area of cheating. Well it would help LaF imo.

Hi Bombay still have u in my msn hahah

dunno, the propaganda was probably just used to get people to look the other way while he did his magic tricks. i might have to feel sorry for him. his eyes probably started popping out of his head from all the reading he had to do to keep up. now he could be walking around looking like a bug-eyed monster.

I'm not an alliance leader & haven't been one for a long long time, but I agree 100% with this!

Now seriously ? do you even belive what you say ?

Some hours ago you have posted :



you think you are talking with kids here ? There were already Laf members stating that hanglong was a "controll freak". And he was controlling Laf + 2/3 of earth alliance ( tricked them or smth).

You gain to many advantages in the wars you fought ( and i personally think you could win some without advantage ) ... but since you choose this path as an alliance, now you should be ashame of your DON acts and stop pronuncing words like "legit" "prepared" fluffcetera.

You as a group did an irrecoverable harm to EVO MD and SOL. All of this alliance loost legit player due to hanlong/TC ( and i think there are more ) irresponsible acts.

You should apologize and do nothing else ... at this point.

Every alliance I join starts cheating....... Lol

Seconded.

but you said many times NA/LaE don't cheat trololololol

Any one of those nations that were unbelievably larger than Highrock knew exactly what happened. Thats no longer 1 member, thats more than a dozen. MD should declare war.

Good response for MD Arsenal,
I read everything :)

probably need to get you safelisted in order to play a country in every alliance so that all the cheatorz will get caught. :-P

That was, for the most part, bias incorrect dribble.

Watch everyone care. It won't be heartbreaking, promise. :v

I doubt many will care because frankly I think the vast majority of people won't bother to read it since it is so long.

Oh yeah except for all the bits where I talk about your alliance cheating and you being around but always "not involved" or "too busy to notice" or "oblivious".

How does it feel to be FR to two LaF Don's both of which have cheated right before your eyes.

Either you are a cheat or you are so incompetent your members should be demanding your resignation. Either way you should never hold a leadership position in LaF again.