I actually think that out of the 5 or 10k players this game had years ago ; nowadays half of the remaining ~700 players are just retards who finally got a spot into random leadership. And now they do their best to just end this game.

EVO you suck!!!

LoL, so much text for just nothing:) I dont see anything special in this kills. DC should learn some rules, if they dont want to be killed again.

DC had a country that could have retalled any and all of evo's countries. They decided not to and to start "retalling" random members instead. We had an FA and another Head contact them, whereby we told them that those were not acceptable retals.

When we tried to retal those grabs they RoRed. They weren't going to change their stance, because they felt it was necessary.

I don't remember anyone crying when SAMCRO got killed 3 sets in a row for "retalling" other countries or using unaccepted methods of retaliation.

Also I don't remember DC asking EVO for a pact at the start of the set, in fact the first time I even heard of DC was when archaic made that evo/laf thread.

Who said Archaic was bashing anyone?

And yeah farming certain tags is ok for whatever tag locket is in, because he's an apple and the rest of us are oranges.

Why does every attack against a clan have to be a retaliation? If you get attacked by someone twice your size does that mean you can only attack that country from that clan? That doesn't seem right. Why can't an attack against someone else in the same clan be just that, an attack, not a retaliation?

I only call it like i see it, much like hanlong has publically without actually knowing the situation. And like i said, I have tried to contact admins about those particular countries with no responce. Having a purple country in any alliance is extremely detrimental, however there was no discussion, no warning, no chance to explain. The countries had appealed with no answer, emails were sent directly with no responce. And this didnt happen right at the start. It happened weeks in with no chance in the players situations... As an alliance leader its extremely frustrating. Especially when we are getting no responce, to try and resolve the situation.

+1

Tertius carries the merit burden for all of PDM

I think when LaF say "we've put locket back in his cage" they really mean "we'll make him take a breath inbetween trolling you"

I don't see how Jax45's response is incorrect.

He is right, people have hit them, they can also hit others.

Basically what Evo is saying here is that they are allowed to LG DC, but DC is not allowed to LG them they are only allowed to retal the hits EVo makes.

This makes no sense to me, in fact what DC is doing used to be commonplace (People used to counter grab if they were being over grabbed by a tag as a way to push for a DNH).

So the question is: Did DC try to claim their hits were retals? If not then they were probably just trying to grab Evo, and it should have been treated as such and retaled accordingly.

So the question is: Did DC try to claim their hits were retals? If not then they were probably just trying to grab Evo, and it should have been treated as such and retaled accordingly.

You are just playing with semantics at this point.

That quote just posted from Jax does not say that the hits were specifically retals in the strict sense of the concept. What he is explaining is essentially what I discussed above as what used to be commonplace.

Unless they were spending retal messages with the hits they should have been considered grabs.

My response is not a official response from laf, but is a personal response.

How about not?

a) This is a game, thus it is competitive. You are asking people not to act competitively and that isn't going to happen, especially given the alliances you are making this request to are highly competitive.

b) As has been argued on another thread, if LaF and evo weren't hitting DC then someone else would. The reason why you see the hits being dominated by those 2 tags at the moment is because they are the ones that put the most effort into camping DR etc. If Evo and laF were to cease hitting them, do you really believe that people like SoF, LCN, RD, sanct etc. wouldn't hit them? I think they would, and there is plenty of past examples that show that this is the case. So from the perspective of LaF and evo, these DC players are going to get grabbed regardless, as such it might as well be us profiting off it.

c) The premise of your request is that cutting new tags slack will be good for the game. I wholeheartedly disagree. Running a successful clan in this game requires a lot of effort. You need to develop strategies, train members, organize both internally and externally (building up your foreign relations department) and make sound decisions about your tags actions.

The game has historically been hard on new tags, and I think this is a good thing because it pushes new tags to organize to the degree they need to in order to be successful. If they don't do it, they die off. If everyone was to "take it easy" on them, they wouldn't learn what it takes to be successful and if they do manage to last, they likely won't be very good, or their progress will be extremely slow.

I know I don't want to see alliance quality watered down in such ways.

I guess you could call it "initiation by fire" but it also acts as a teaching tool, it shows these people exactly what it takes to be successful on this server. Some tags don't rise to that challenge, but plenty of others have over the years.

It isn't impossible, it is actually pretty easy if new tags approach it in a proper way.

D) They chose to come to this server and compete with us. There are other servers for them to hone their skills and organize themselves on before trying to make the jump to the alliance server. They chose to tackle the alliance server and as such they chose everything that comes with it (maybe they like the challenge? some people do you know).

You don't walk onto a soccer field against a bunch of skilled players and then get angry when they dribble circles around you, and you don't expect them to "play down" to your level. This is a ridiculous concept and goes against the nature of competitions/games.

"Also when killing a couple countries in a clan is it common to attack one country 207 within 39 seconds, and then attacking the next country 5 minuets later 211 times within 55 seconds?"

yes, that's called a kill run :P it is extremely common.

Ok i guess it just seemed like a ridiculous amount of attacks over such a short amount of time.

I don't understand how some people are misconstruing the situation so poorly. Just looking at #575's news, it's obvious that he repeatedly RoR on countries that did not originally hit DC. So whether you call those retals or grabs isn't really too important because either way they are not accepted retals (he hit players who did not attack DC). Thus, they are treated as grabs and those players acceptably retal them, #575 retals their retal, it sounds like FA contact is made, DC says this is their policy, Evo says that's not standard policy and kills the member who repeatedly offends.

This seems pretty cut and dry. You could argue that all alliances should give them a DNH to begin with (though it seems Evo's stance is that DC didn't specifically ask them for one) and it's hard to see the merit behind the several LaF guys who are calling Evo the big bad wolf because they got a DNH pact just a few days before the killing.

Regardless of feelings on driving away new players, this kill run is not really so controversial. Evo (and others) is fairly lenient with accepted forms of retals if one of their members is farming an alliance, however there are ZERO alliances which accept retals on countries which never hit you. After explaining the policy, if the offending country/alliance is not willing to change, the accepted route is a kill run/war.

H4 and Anon can argue semantics but it doesn't change what really happened, and the fact is that it is a policy dispute and not bullying.