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Sir Balin Game profile

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Sep 21st 2011, 12:41:34

or in a PhD program, particularly if it's not in a hard science, I'd like to ask you some questions.

anoniem Game profile

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Sep 21st 2011, 12:43:14

not a hard science, lol, such as not being a natural science i.e. a social science?
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Sir Balin Game profile

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Sep 21st 2011, 12:47:33

Yeah - social sciences, humanities, divinity, philosophy, something like that. I guess I could be a little more forthright in my post - I'm wondering what kind of non-research careers one might enter with a PhD. Teaching at the university level, of course. What else is typical?

anoniem Game profile

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Sep 21st 2011, 12:50:32

Gordon Brown former Prime Minister of Britain has a PhD in History.

What I'm saying is that government could be an option.
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toma Game profile

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Sep 21st 2011, 13:06:03

lol a non hard science PhD is a ticket to the unemployment line.
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Detmer Game profile

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Sep 21st 2011, 13:06:18

I do not believe it is typical to get a PhD and have it help you get any job in a non-research career. (well, maybe stats/actuarial)

Sifos Game profile

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Sep 21st 2011, 13:19:17

McDonalds? LAWL!


(no, I have no clue)
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Klown Game profile

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Sep 21st 2011, 13:24:36

I was in a PhD program, I stopped at a Masters to start working because I didn't see much beyond academia and realized the opportunities in academia are limited. To be honest I think it would have closed more doors than it would have opened.

Klown Game profile

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Sep 21st 2011, 13:26:53

Btw, you are not going to have a very good career if you were to teach at a university without conducting significant amounts of research. You can teach at a non-research university or get a job as a lecturer with a Masters degree.

BobbyATA Game profile

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Sep 21st 2011, 13:34:47

one may enter the unemployment line with a non science PHD. Thats about it. Seriously I'd strongly encourage you not to pursue a doctorate...read any chronicle of higher education article it will set you straight.

Sir Balin Game profile

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Sep 21st 2011, 13:35:04

Good advice, pretty much confirms what I was thinking. I'm about to finish my masters in IT (the program is sort of CS + MBA) and just thinking toward the future. My primary reason for pursuing a PhD would be personal curiosity, but I'm worried, like you said, that it might close off some opportunities that are already available to me. If I pursued a PhD it would probably be in social & cultural criticism with regard to technology and new media.

I want to do research. The idea of spending 5-6 years researching topics that are interesting to me is extremely appealing. I don't think I could do that well while in the workforce. But I'm not sure I want to spend the rest of my life doing research. I'm also not sure I want to teach.

Sir Balin Game profile

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Sep 21st 2011, 13:37:43

Good stuff, thanks all.

Detmer Game profile

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Sep 21st 2011, 14:03:21

Well, if you do a niche topic that has niche opportunities, then someone might hire you. General rule of thumb with a PhD though (certainly in a humanities-type field) is that if it isn't your passion and what you want to spend the rest of your life researching then it isn't something you should do. Even if that is appealing to you there is still no guarantee you will be able to. In a natural science/engineering at least there are often non-academic careers available.

My advice is to go to Yale since they fully fund all of their graduate students, even humanities. If you have to pay your own way you're looking at accumulating a lot of debt to accomplish something that will in many cases make you less hireable.

TNTroXxor Game profile

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Sep 21st 2011, 14:26:34

This is pretty much the only thread with legit response in AT.

+1
Originally posted by JJ23:
i havent been deleted since last set

Pang Game profile

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Sep 21st 2011, 14:36:05

I thought long and hard about doing a PhD, but there is no real monetary gain to it in the business world (for a CS PhD, at least) other than being able to get a job as a prof or join panels, etc.

I figured a masters would give me the extra skills/accreditation I would need to make sure I'm always highly employable but not take too long.

The PhD is almost a lifestyle change thing for CS and maybe IT too... I come from a CS program with a strong business background and my research is focused on the marketing side of comsci. The PhD lets you be a prof, it makes you an expert in the field and it opens so many new, fun opportunities. I would absolutely love to be a prof some day, but I can't keep putting off the present for a better future.

Also, as someone who just spent 3 years researching the same CS topic (which is also what I do for a living now) it gets very, very tedious and you need a LOT of focus to simply stay on task and do a good job. Research is super fun, so if you like the idea of researching comsci/business things there are some opportunities for that at R&D focused companies. I plan to continue my research after I graduate in concert with my school/advisor & my company.

As Klown said, having a PhD isn't really that important in the private sector, but if you can get a PhD and be at the top of your field/subfield, you can do quite well.
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highrock Game profile

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Sep 21st 2011, 14:38:56

I'm a PhD student in political science right now. My answer is don't do a PhD unless you really like/want to do research. If you want a non-academic job, you don't need a PhD. The 5+ years as a grad student is not worth it and it will drive you crazy. Also, if you are not funded completely, don't even think about doing a PhD.
formerly Viola MD

Pang Game profile

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Sep 21st 2011, 14:39:46

Originally posted by highrock:
Also, if you are not funded completely, don't even think about doing a PhD.


a very, very, very good point!
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martian Game profile

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Sep 21st 2011, 15:11:38

highrock hit it bang on.
I did my edumactation in actuarial science (math faculty).

PHD doesn't necessarily close off opportunities though if you explain why you did it in an interview. If it's masters vs phd then you simply have to answer: "I didn't like the academic setting and prefer something more real world. I also prefer to finish things that I start" or something like that.
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martian Game profile

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Sep 21st 2011, 15:12:08

it's also possible to do a phd part time while working. How well that works depends on your job and what your phd is in..
you are all special in the eyes of fluff
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Pang Game profile

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Sep 21st 2011, 15:50:38

I just did my masters while working and DO NOT DO THAT

it took a lot longer than it should have.
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Assassin Game profile

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Sep 21st 2011, 15:59:04

lynn?

Ruthie

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Sep 21st 2011, 16:57:00

*snickers*
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Detmer Game profile

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Sep 21st 2011, 17:50:05

Originally posted by Assassin:
lynn?


lol, glad I am not the only one who thought of that ;)

Sir Balin Game profile

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Sep 21st 2011, 18:34:29

Again, thanks very much for the input.

qzjul Game profile

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Sep 21st 2011, 18:36:38

Originally posted by Pang:
I just did my masters while working and DO NOT DO THAT

it took a lot longer than it should have.


me too! what pang said!
Finally did the signature thing.

PraetorNLS Game profile

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Sep 21st 2011, 19:30:37

i have two mastersdegrees, thats almost a PhD , except i dont get to write Dr. infront of my name, my main motivation for taking one is that my gf is a Dr. Med , and she has it infront of her name, so its Mr and Dr xxxx on all invites ... :P
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Flamey Game profile

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Sep 22nd 2011, 0:18:27

I just finished my Masters. The final thesis was enough to put me off a phD heh.

Evolution Game profile

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Sep 22nd 2011, 8:24:30

I'm in the second year of my PhD. fully funded :X

I tend to tell people not to do it unless fully or partially funded, because potentially the outcomes at the end are hazy.
Not posting on AT as much because Maki/Steeps gave back some of my forums on GHQ. RIP my decade long blog, my blog even had replies from people who are no longer with us :(.

ponderer Game profile

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Sep 22nd 2011, 9:04:16

PhD's make you less employable in architecture, because you're seen as someone who knows the theory, but not the reality of practicing the profession. The exception to that is if you spend a couple of decades working in the profession and then go back and earn a PhD.
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Evolution Game profile

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Sep 22nd 2011, 9:26:09

I'm getting job offers but they are for graduate positions I could have gotten with my undergrad degrees...
Not posting on AT as much because Maki/Steeps gave back some of my forums on GHQ. RIP my decade long blog, my blog even had replies from people who are no longer with us :(.

flameo

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Sep 22nd 2011, 9:56:30

i am doing a PhD in polymer science straight after my bachelor thesis. why am i doing it, coz my boss told me to xD

santti Game profile

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Sep 22nd 2011, 12:23:51

I finished my PhD some years ago (of process-control-engineering) when I was working in a research organization and after that I got better, more interesting job in industry, which I could have got without my PhD.

Most of the above adviced seems to be just what I have thought. I finsihed my PhD when I was doing totally different research than my thesis, and it really took lots of time. When I joined that research organization I had about from half to one year full time work to do. And then I played Earth... don't follow my foot steps!
SanttiE is here again!

Sir Balin Game profile

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Sep 22nd 2011, 12:34:45

Assume I was fully funded and my sole motivation for getting a PhD is intellectual curiosity. Bad idea?

Professionally, I think I would enjoy being CIO for a non-profit or medium-sized organization. If I stay in the workforce I'm probably 6-8 years from that.

I don't care much about money, so pushing out my maximum earning potential another 5-6 years to do a PhD is fine with me.

Do you think I'd be less employable as an executive with a loosely-related PhD? Less employable with a 6-year gap in employment?

Pang Game profile

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Sep 22nd 2011, 14:54:10

you don't care about money?

you're a perfect candidate for a PhD regardless of any other reason.

:p

it sounds like it's something you'd like to do, so if that's the case that should trump anyone else's advice
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Detmer Game profile

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Sep 22nd 2011, 15:45:15

If you could get a job post-PhD then pushing things back is not an issue. Being Dr. H isn't going to hurt you for a top position once you have a lot of experience - you'll just be behind everyone else in the game.

Atryn Game profile

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Sep 22nd 2011, 17:06:59

Having a Ph.D. does not require you to use the title Dr. or even tell anyone about it. Hurting your job prospects comes from if you are taking 5 years off from a profession and thus not being current/experienced versus others who spent that time working in the field.

This book was recommended to me by a Ph.D. on the topic:

http://amzn.to/qzcQat

spawn Game profile

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Sep 22nd 2011, 19:14:21

i'll start my PhD soon, and know it will give me more options later on and more money ;)

/slap iZarcon

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BobbyATA Game profile

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Sep 23rd 2011, 2:00:35

what a bunch of nerds this community is everyone getting a phd and what not.

CC Game profile

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Sep 25th 2011, 0:48:51

LoL. Too many postgraduates in EE community.

Sir Balin - i completed my fully funded engineering PhD a couple of years ago - and the additional maturity, skills and technical expertise come quite handy in my role. I am now at the same level or higher than those of my peers (from undergraduate year), with a significant higher technical expertise.

At the same time, I am part of a lobby-group for postdoc in NZ. The lack of postdoc and tenured academia positions means many non-engineering and applied science or applied humanities PhD holders are finding it difficult to find a position that use their PhD-training. So, it's a waste of time. You gotta see where your subfield is taking you, and make an assessment of the market demand.
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Sir Balin Game profile

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Sep 25th 2011, 13:53:19

There is no market demand for a PhD in my desired field. It would just be for my own fulfillment.

Hardy Game profile

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Sep 25th 2011, 20:25:39

meow