US Immigration needs to be based on individuals not on ethnicity. Here's proof.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/...s/us_news-life/?gt1=43001

I've been saying since my wife immigrated that the process has vast expanses for improvement - currently it is just awful, and completely subjective.

I'm sure of that too, NOW3P. The US bureaucracy related to INS is a mess and needs to be seriously overhauled. Just like any other bureaucracy, they've been left to their own devices for far too long and have only gotten more inefficient and ineffective over time.

THey need to be seriously renovated, some old folks put out to pasture and some new blood brought in with a solid mission statement.

You should just hire the Canadians or Austrilians to run the INS for you - skills based immigration.

We don't have a lack of skills. It's a complex issue. On the one hand, the United States would like to enjoy the free border crossings Europeans have, but the United States also do not want to be responsible for caring for lives and what may come of them without those people paying the same taxes citizens pay.

It's pretty unfair to give all the same benefits to illegals as citizens, but the goal is to have people coming and going as respected equals. We have a long row to hoe on that.

I imagine it wouldn't be too bad to allow people who are already approved for employment in qualified companies to gain legal status, but I'm sure there is something I am overlooking to muck that up.

I don't really have a problem with people who come to the US to get a job, work, and lead productive lives, raise a family, etc. These are not the people I have a problem with. The ones I have a problem with are the ones who come here to party, raise hell, drink/drug and obtain benefits that should be reserved strictly for citizens.

If you want to come here and work and pay taxes like the citizens do, you should be welcome to do that, bring your family, work hard and be cool.

If you're only here for the benefits of citizenry, and you don't want to become a citizen and bear the same responsibilities a regular citizen must bear, then GTFO! ADCB!

I think blowing up all our money in Iraq and Afghanistan also has made a huge economic problem for us.

Vote Democratic so we can spend all our money on deadbeat losers!

oh wait...that's bad.

Vote Republican so we can spend all our money on war!

oh wait...that's bad too.

Pros to immigration: Hard working people who can contribute to society arrive

Cons to immigration: We do not have enough jobs for the hard working Americans already here, let alone the lazy Americans.

Illegal immigration is a whole other can of worms unto itself.

What (I think) we need is a system to encourage illegals to apply for legal citizenship instead of deporting them 20 times in a row because no matter how much we try, there will always be ways to sneak across the all US borders.

Watertowers - as soon as you are able to find a way to make that system work that can *legitimately and fairly* discriminate between the folks you mentioned and the folks who are truly in need of it because they're down on their luck despite their best efforts without violating basic constitutional rights, feel free to propose it....until then, just know that greater minds than yourself have been working on that problem for decades.

What is the defining characteristic that seperates Americans from humans that live in other parts of the world? Is a man in Kansas more entitled to employment because of his place of birth and parentage? America is a country of immigrants over the last 400 years. The only difference is if it was you or your great-granddaddy that decided to abandon their old world in search of a land where every man is judged equal.

There are two components to any economy: internal and exports. A growing population means a growing internal demand for resources and stimulates growth in construction and service industries. The US has struggled for decades with exports, and now is feeling the results. Immigrants generally are willing to work for minimum wage and minimal living condition and could increase US competitiveness. The indiginous US population would gain collateral jobs in sales and marketing.

We have to shift with world demographics, or be left behind as the world economy develops and lifts the majority of humanity out of poverty. Without an abundant supply of next-to-nothing labour, the US's innovation will restore it as a competitive market.

True but...they took our jobs

I am definitely in favor of employing American citizens preferably to immigrants and definitely in preference to illegal immigrants. If they think America is so great, they can ask to be here legally and earn citizenship.

Now as for needing cheap labor to stay prosperous, I'd like to think as we spread technology to the far reaches of the world that eventually everyone can have a decent standard of living where they are safe, fed, clothed, and even entertained.

The world doesn't require poor people in order to have rich people. Unfortunately a good many rich people disagree and intentionally try to keep people down so they can be controlled.

I agree with your premise Terror, other than the fact that the current immigration system makes it nearly impossible for an unsponsored immigrant to ask to be here legally unless they happen to be one of the lucky ones that wins the green card lottery in their home country, especially if they're over the age of 25 - which is a relatively small number of overall immigrants.

The whole illegal immigration thing is tough. Too many folks slipping through is bad, for many reasons. But, those people are doing the same thing that most of us would do, so how can we hate the individual?

So what about immigrant children who grow up in the US? You prefer to employ an American-born over foriegn-born? Don't you see the preference is completely arbirary? Why should you favour someone born in Alaska over the Yukon? Hawaii over Japan?

Most illegal immigrants have tried offical routes and either are still in the bogged down system or were rejected on some basis. The whole concept that they should be considered illegal is barbaric and counter-productive. The fiscal point being the failure to pay taxes and the humanitarian point being the denial of medial services. But maybe, I'm just biased as I was an illegal Canadian immigrant in America with my family for 6 years. I couldn't get a driver's license when I turned 16. The discrimination is arbrary and limits the full potential of the US population.

Look at the cargo ship of Sri Lankans that landed in BC last year. Many of them had immigration applications that were part of an 8 year backlog. The people organising such things such be stopped and punished, but the human beings in the cargo container just wanted the same opertunity to live and work in peace that you cherish or take of granted.

On a counter note, I think immigration in general is counter-productive. The most cost effective solution is to inject massive foriegn investment into development of the third world instead of doing the same works in countries with higher labour and material costs. We should be exporting our knowledge base and pushing the fronters of global access. Each domestic population should seek to stablize, then the only growth in the global economy will be from a rise in the mean standard of living.

It's interesting to note the difference in mix between US immigration and Canadian or Austrilian immigration. In Canada, it's a mix of family(35%), high-skilled labour(50%), and aslum (15%). Most Canadian-bred Canadian families only go back 6 generations to colonization, so only the myopic ones see the more recent newcomers as a different class of citizens.

I pretty much agree with you Mapleson, other than immigration being counter-productive thing. It seems to me that immigrants are the majority segment of the population willing to take manual labor positions within the economy, and are generally willing to do it at a lower rate of pay than their native/naturalized counterparts.

Maybe instead of stopping immigration, we can increase emigration of highly privileged native born Americans to 3rd world countries? Cuz I would be pretty in favor of that! :-)

I definitely feel for you and your bias, but as powerful as the United States may be (and not so much as it once was), we can not afford do give medical care and education to every unregistered person who crosses the border.

I hate to be an asshole about this, but my parents, grandparents, and great-grandparents worked very hard, paid taxes and in some cases died to make a great country. They earned the right to pass that wealth to me even though I admit my contribution is mediocre.

If people from other nations can prove they are not a burden to the United States then admit them and their children.

The standard should be high, but I think that is fair.

is anyone else getting a little dizzy from all the talking in circles going on here?

I just wait around until I make a friend out of someone and the make an excuse to go visit their county. Whorish--yes, but it works for me.

-Immigrants are filthy, vile creatures that do not deserve to set foot on our blessed soil.

-It is not our duty to spread the wonders of technology and medicine to the far corners of the world. If they wanted to be clean, healthy, and educated they should have been American.

-Foreigners are dangerous, they spread disease and cannot be trusted.

-Sure, I've been called a xenophobe, but the truth is, I'm not. I honestly just feel that America is the best country and the other countries aren't as good. That used to be called patriotism.


(better NOW3P???)

Whatever happened to you AOL? Sucks you don't get on.

What is it..2003?

So you live your life attempting to restore America to greatness? If not, probably those before you didn't either. I think your parents, grandparents, and great-grandparents worked hard to make a better life for themselves and their children. I find it very unfortunate that you think the location of your birth gives you more right to the world's resources.

The US can afford $3 billion a year to coroporate jet owners, but can't afford to provide basic human care? If priorities and atitudes changed, then the US could afford to give medical care and education to everyone within the nation. Canada does it. Britian does it. If fact 32 of 33 developed nations of the world have universal health care, I wonder which is the only developed nation on Earth that can't afford it.

These people are part of your economy for better or worse, so why not make it for the better for everyone?

thank you legion - glad someone finally nailed it!

filthy? give a man a bath and he'll get a woody, teach a man to bathe and he'll be clean...

"free trade" and "globalization" are pretty much shams anyway. It's just a more palatable way to exploit weaker countries and surpress political opponents.
Almost no country has built up its industries successfully in a non-protected environment.

Canada has higher immigration requirements than the US. Have you ever even looked at what those requirements are?

If you don't have a decent education, Canada doesn't want you.

If you don't have a significant source, or cache of cash, Canada doesn't want you, either.

Check your facts before you start comparing apples and oranges and lose your perspectives completely.

Immigration to the US is slow and the process is cumbersome, but it's still easier for an immigrant to meet the US requirements than it is for them to meet most other countries immigration rules.

As someone who's dealt with both, I'm gonna go ahead and say that entire last post is BS. Sorry Cerb, I think it's you that needs to do more research on the issue.

what^said.