http://edition.cnn.com/...licopter.crash/index.html

failed FS?

RPG -> moving heli = BOOM! That's one lucky shot :o

Edit: Most of the 2 dozen dead "were" Navy Seals too! Looks like Osama got his revenge =P

i think the fs was a while ago, wasn't it?

Confirmed braden, someone just got on to wall

Who the fluff are you assholes to joke about this? What the fluff gives you the right? I'll tell you, those military people who just made the ultimate sacrifice guarantee your right to be complete assholes. You should all just kiss the darkest part of my lily white ass.

you're a tool.

Dark humor is not for everyone, especially those who feel a personal connection to the subject matter. I'm not saying his response is necessarily correct, but in this instance cut Cerberus some slack.

Not cool man.. Thats a dozen grieving mothers fathers brothers wives and children

Cerb's line for humor is just a little bit closer to heart than most, I guess

personally, I think this kind of thing isn't so horrible because there doesn't seem to be any intentional disrespect - although I'm sure this thread will get there VERY quickly knowing AT...

um, i don't recall Afghanistan being a state in the US, so i don't know why they're over there screwing up and getting killed because of it. don't need them to blow up muslims for me.

terrible news :(:(

tell that to all the people that died on 9/11.

why bother? are you stating that the government protected them from getting killed?

no I am saying that sometimes it is necessary to go beyond our borders to protect our country. It would be great if we could live in your fantasy land where we didn't need to send our troops into hostile places where there are people intent on killing us but unfortunately we don't. If we didn't have troops there dying for us then there would be more 9/11 type attacks, be assured of that. It's a shame that people like you are so disrespectful of someone who just died so that you can enjoy your life without the constant threat of being blown up like those that live in places like the middle east are accustomed to.

LOL. dang, you just reminded me that August 5th was the anniversary of the Rhein Main bombing that took place outside of my barracks.

stick it up your wahzoo, sit and spin on it.

Weren't those the same guys who killed Bin Laden? I smell conspiracy brewing.

not sure how that supports your point?

Don't worry tho, if our country continues on its current path I am sure there will be a time shortly where our troops will be defending us at home so you can tell them to their faces how you feel about them.

you don't have much faith in the American people, yet you feel they are somehow improved if they are taught to kill and used to kill. if the cops can't defend me, what makes you think the troops will succeed?

Bin Laden is dead. It was Al-Qaeda who was behind 9/11. Currently, we are over there fighting the TALIBAN, not Al-Qaeda. Say what you want, but there's a difference.

Mission has already been accomplished. Now our troops are dying for nothing.

Sounds fluffty, and it is. Blame the politicians.

I have faith that we are capable of fixing our country but I question the desire to. Until things get really bad I doubt people will really start to care about change.
Our military is a necessity not a luxury, would you rather dispand our military and leave us defenseless? You seem to think that if we just left everyone alone then things would be all peachy? I don't know you at all so maybe you are joking and I missed the sarcasm??

my point was that even if we just stayed in our own country it wouldn't prevent Americans from being killed. Those that want us dead are happy enough to come to America and kill us. The situation in afghanistan is pretty screwed up but just leaving isn't the solution.

what i think, is that it's a waste of money going to other countries to kill people when we should have been defending our own country to begin with.

How many times have "they" come to America to kill us? Once, you say? By the way, who is "they"?

And, in fact, the very reason why "they" are killing is us precisely BECAUSE we didn't keep to ourselves.

USSR invades Afghanistan. America provides weaponry and training to rebels, including Bin Laden. Bin Laden sees American military base in Saudi Arabia (and other places in the Gulf). Bin Laden uses the training we gave him and forms Al-Qaeda. Al-Qaeda rams jets into the WTC.

You seem like a nice dude, but you really need to learn about cause and effect.

Finally, invading/occupying/supporting foreign countries is exactly what caused 9/11. Let's make no mistake about that.

You think Bin Laden woke up one day, stretched his arms, took a sip of tea, then said "fluff, I really hate freedom and democracy, let's go bomb some fluff" or something? Come on, man.

ok well I can agree with that but I think defending our country is exactly what they are attempting to do. You may not agree with their decision to be there but regardless of that the troops that are over their deserve our respect and gratitude for their sacrifice.

That would be great if it was that simple but the "cause" isn't quite that simple. I am with ya on the fact that we trained and armed them fight USSR which has obviously come back to bite us but their (and by "they" I mean radical islams) argument with us isn't that we are in their country is that they believe that we should be killed because we are not a part of their religion. They will not be content to just have us leave, what makes you think that if we left they would no longer be our enemy? And sure they have only had 1 major successful attack on our soil but had we not gone and taken the fight to them I wonder how many more there would have been?

let me know when i can visit Mecca without have to convert to Islam first. it was because we (the infidels) were on their land though that was probably just a rallying cry. think the CIA forget to send Osama his last paycheck.

thank you all for confirming my suspicions about this thread...

you're welcome...

I stopped reading after I read that last sentence. This is the type of argument I won't bother rebutting, because only people whose beliefs are set firmly in the absurd believe this.

Bin Laden even told you WHY he bombed 9/11 (and it had nothing to do with non-Muslims).

"I stopped reading after I read that last sentence" well thats cause there was nothing more to read ;)

seriously tho, I actually have a pretty open mind so if you can show me that their Jihad isn't a religion based war or that the quran doesn't instruct them to kill us then I will change my mind. I understand that all muslims dont want to kill non-muslims but the ones that do, do it out of religious beliefs. Sure our being there may have given them more incentive but its not the root cause. If you read the quran at all you will see that there is a clear directive to kill non-muslims. Bin Laden listed our support of Israel and consequent attacks on Palistine as main reasons for the attack on 9/11. On the surface that may seem political more than religious but the Palastine/Israel conflict is first and foremost religious, not political and his anger at our support is rooted in religious beliefs. In his "Letter to Americans" he frequently quotes to quran and says in response to "what the taliban wants us to do" he says "The first thing that we are calling you to is Islam." So in conclusion, this has been argued by far smarter people than us and an easy answer has yet to be found so my guess is that is somewhere in the middle, both political and religious.

Am I the only one who doesn't think those guys are really dead? Is it not in the realm of possibilities that they were "killed" to protect them in the long run? Stranger things have happened.

Regardless of why we are over there and my thoughts on if we should be there, my heart does go out to the families that have lost loved ones.

you watching too much Bond. "You Only Live Twice". might as well ask if they actually killed Osama or finally gave him his string of Holiday Inns in Southern California.

synoder needs to go read some more. i should break out some Revelations and start calling all Christians a bunch of religious zealots who are hell bent on taking over the kingdom of heaven by killing all of the satan spawn marked with the Apple logo, err, Sign of The Beast.

yah, the Palestine/Israel crisis is about religion, The Zionists decided to illegally immigrate back to their ancient homeland and use terrorism to kick out the Palestinian land owners.

[quote poster=Dibs Ludicrous; 11520; 201565]
synoder needs to go read some more. i should break out some Revelations and start calling all Christians a bunch of religious zealots who are hell bent on taking over the kingdom of heaven by killing all of the satan spawn marked with the Apple logo, err, Sign of The Beast.
quote]

except that I didn't say that all muslims want to kill people. Just as people use Christianity to do horrible things so do muslims. I could point out the differences but I think you get what I mean. You are welcome to break out whatever "revelations" you want tho and I will happily talk them over with you.

I can't believe a topic on this subjec matter turned into something this dissrespectful.

I get the whole "this is the Internet let's argue" fluff, I'm all for it, but show a little respect.

31 Americans and 7 afganistan special forces were killed in an "accident" (Taliban claim shooting down investigation hast been concluded. 22 were seals, repordedlt from team 6, howeer they were not the same platoon that was involved in the Pakistan raid on Bin Laden. This is what I have gathered, story may of changed.

Pretty easy to get political on this topic, but let's try to think about the 38 families that lost loved ones and respect their sacrifices and let it be.

The issue in Palestine isn't about religion, it's about borders, territory and water. It's all political.

Even the struggle between Shias and Sunnis in Iraq isn't about religion -- it's about sectarian dominance and power. It's a huge clusterfluff of West Side Story playing out over there.

You should examine issues more closely if you believe that these conflicts are about religion. Religion is just used as an excuse to recruit and brainwash people into fighting for a political cause.

TAN, you assume that all acknowledge a separation between the political and the religious. The reality is that many do not. That is very much a "western" view point.

The "western" viewpoint is that they are fighting over religion, actually.

posting this on AT makes it more interesting.

we're not picketing their funerals. we're not spitting on their coffins. we're having a virtual discussion on the internet. suppossedly one of the things they are over there fighting to protect.

I mourn these deaths. Deeply.

And am enraged all the more at the futility.

You see, I did not know any of the people on that Chinook helicopter, and yet i mourn the needless loss of life.
I know they were brave and believed in what they were doing and that they were fully aware the threat of death was with them on every mission. They took that chance every time, and they signed up knowing that.

I mourn most for their families; especially their children. Those kids didn't sign up for this. Every day, they lived with the knowledge that their parent or older sibling could be killed without warning on the other side of the globe. No child should have to live with that stress.
Their worst nightmares have become reality.

In a more civilized world that alone would be called child abuse.


But this is reality too:
http://preview.tinyurl.com/3hbovfg

That reality doesn't make me feel any 'safer' in my cozy sheltered life in suburban america. If you think we're not fostering future blowback you're delusional. I worry what our (US) military actions of the past (nearly) ten years will mean for my children and grandchildren.

I can guess what my response would be if my neighborhood was bombed by a foreign government. I know how i would respond after my neighbors and family members were blown to bits via remote control, then dismissed by that gov as collateral damage while claiming to have killed one or two low level leaders of a tenuously disjointed terrorist organization.

Osama Bin Ladin is dead. How many more civilians should we kill? How many more brave warriors should die, and for what?

All the lives lost, all the treasure wasted, in response to an attack within the US borders that killed 3000 on 9/11 from nineteen box cutters..
How many more should die?

I'm not here to debate. I'm just here to point out what should be obvious. We (US/NATO) need to get out of Afghanistan.
We're not making friends. We're not bringing peace. We're not eliminating threats. And we certainly don't need to be killing innocent people in foreign lands to insure my right to free speech or make an insensitive statement about another's death.

fluffin' dammit. Declare it over and get the fluff out of Afghanistan.

"Even the struggle between Shias and Sunnis in Iraq isn't about religion -- it's about sectarian dominance and power. It's a huge clusterfluff of West Side Story playing out over there."

Who is Natalie Wood in this analogy? :P

and when do they start walking down the street in unison, snapping and singing their threats?

"fluffin' dammit. Declare it over and get the fluff out of Afghanistan."

And then when fluff gets even worse over there, everybody blames and hates america, and they spend the next few months collecting box cutters

(also not here to debate, just make meaningless west side story references from here out :P)

So the only logical step we can take now is mass genocide to remove any future threats

1

We can argue that works like a charm, just ask the US backed dictator Rafael Leonidas Trujillo.

Honestly those of you that believe in Karma should be fluffting your pants, because clearly isn't enough, not yet.

American movies portrait the US government as the good guy, the freedom fighters of the world, when the rest of the world knows your government acted as the villains of the world for more than a quarter of a decade.

Why do you think Obama got such a massive support overseas? Is because the world is fed up with the american way of doing things and they believed in change.

We appreciate the aid during disasters, but everyone knows it comes with strings attached, we would appreciate if your massive mega corporations would stop corrupting our officials to get super deals... And also killing in accidents those that refuse; now all of them know how the game works, so they no longer try to refuse bribes as you americans must get whatever you want, no matter what.

But I love you all!!!!

I hate your government with all my heart, but the people isn't that bad :)

we are the government ya twit.

I've been to Iraq twice. Afganistan once. So I am not even going to get into this.


The FS joke went overboard though. Try to think about the families and friends that are mourning right now.

Oh yeah, because you truly believe you have a democracy going :P

More between the lines of a Democrazy :) sounds similar, but there is a CLEAR difference :)

Oh by the way, you used to go by the Nick of DerLiverStab?

no, i've pretty much always used Dibs. (LOF)Dibs or Dibs Ludicrous. i do have some extra handles that i occasionally dip into when i can remember the passwords, but DerLiverStab ain't one of them.

and i don't believe anything, or you could say that i believe anything until i have something that contradicts it. most of the stuff doesn't even get processed because i have no use for it.

Chaoswind, a number of our founding fathers actually called it Mobocracy when they argued against it.