Obviously, LaE's trust factor took a major hit this set. I can't say that I blame folks at all for distrusting the changes that are currently being made either.

So far, the 2 members that were directly implicated in running the multi countries have left LaE, LaE has re-tooled with completely new leadership, and opened our site to EE mods to keep an eye on what is going on and help us keep an eye on the situation in the future.

With that in mind though, I guess I'm curious as to what LaE will need to do to regain trust in the community. A lot of folks have posted in support of the changes, but we also know we have a long way to go before things are "fixed". Obviously, disbanding and/or booting Llaar/ICe are not an options for us, so if you want to post that just know that you're wasting your time in doing so. I'm talking about real options here. I know time and actions are a factor, and will likely persuade more folks than anything else....but are we missing anything? I'm not a great multi hunter by any means, but I do want to ensure that something like this never happens again, and practical solutions are just kinda how my (beer damaged) brain works.

Feel free to troll this thread up if it makes you feel warm and fuzzy inside - I'm only going to be reading for feasible/realistic solutions anyways, and don't have any interest in another thread damning/defending LaE. This thread is about how we move forward in the community in a healthy/transparent way, not rehashing the past or arguing about how evil we are.

Also, please understand that we likely will not accept any solution that cannot be applied to ALL clans evenly. I'm fine with LaE being scrutinized and investigated, but I for one won't open up our members to any measures that we can't expect other clans to live up to as well. That is beyond the spirit of competition and fair play, and is detrimental to the community just as much as cheaters are.

Thanks in advance to all those who post honest and thoughtful suggestions. Those of us that remain in LaE appreciate your help in keeping our clan around, and helping us to ensure that our members are playing in a more responsible manner.

have someone outside of EE and LaE be able to look at which contries are claimed on site and by who any contry no claimed in 24 hours must be booted from the tag

The mods currently have that ability Lefty - as well, we will have a similar policy internally. If the mods find something fishy in their investigations, I hope they will let us know asap.

i mean outside of the mods and Lae someone from another clan sry dont trust the mods all that much right now

and most clans have a policy like this does not mean they use it

You mean like Primeval?

Sorry, that option has far too many implications for cheating against LaE to be practical. Unfortunately, to open up our site to a player from another clan, we also have to open up internal information that clans SHOULD be able to keep secret (war plans, netting builds, individual player country numbers, etc)

Why do you distrust the mods though? Even as someone playing in both clans that got deleted, I think they did an extremely fair and thorough job in resolving all this.

if the mods say your good than thats enough for kemo

u can limit perms u know that they would really only be a few pages a person would need to see to see what was claimed and what not. so u dont have a bunch of people on your site as guest's?

i mean like crips or rats damn near your choice on who but i am not to worried about it u know that ffa will have to gangbang Lae if this happens again

also u wanted ideas just tossing it out there

There probably is not alot more you all can do at this point that you haven't already done.
I would say it is gunna take time to rebuild trust and to see how you all may respond to any future shenanigans. i have 2 thoughts at the moment tho.
1) Life time ban from LaE for those 2 members
2)Be the first to report any suspected cheating.

Good Luck

So much for making friends...

i think not being friends with primeval is something many are fine with :P

actually, you can give a perm to an ambassador to view members and claimed countries, least I'm pretty sure you can, haven't seen ezclone's perm set up

thanx desperado i was sure i was at least a small bit right

I believe I might still have that access but babysitting doesn't seem fun. Still haven't decided if i'll even play next set.

As one of the members that left, I would say two things:

1) I'm with kemo on the main aspect. If the mods have access to your site and think you're good, then I'm happy.

2) Don't worry about building our trust. Build the trust of those that are IN LaE. I know my main reason for leaving was the trust issue, feeling like I was lied to when I was very publicly defending the alliance (I'm not down with the cheating either, but if the big'uns in charge had just come out and said, "yeah, we cheated, we got caught, we'll behave now" then I would have stayed). I believe several others would echo the same sentiment.

Good luck rebuilding. I hope you guys come back big and bad (but legal as well!)

NOW3P......didn`t you once post you would be the first out the door if Lae was found to be cheating .

Just keep playing the game legit, forget about flamers and arguing with them. You will have the respect sooner or later!

NOW3P
That laes "trust" factor took a hit is a surprise, I need to ask, HOW is that a surprise?

One suggestion I might make is to only allow lae members to play from a single home pc for their 15 countries. Meaning that they can not use multiple pcs to run their own 15 countries. Most people use highspeed cable for their internet and if it's time warner their IP does NOT change on a regular basis. So, if more than 1 IP is used to run a string of countries an admin should be right on it suspending that string until the person that owns it talks to an admin and convinces the admin that the IP change was a legit change.

30 members = 450 countries.

I know, you're thinking just like lae did once before. IF you have more than 30 members, form another tag and have both tags hit during a war. Well, that can also be done away with by admins informing clans that if another tag should join in the war ALL their countries get deleted. That way you would have a balanced, fair fight. Should they choose to go untagged, ALL untagged countries that interfere in a war for either side get deleted as they are used.

sandman, are you and gregg lovers?

No Despy. I just know things about lae and see that nothing has changed. llaar will still run his 100+ countries no matter what.

Sandman: I've never cheated.

If I stayed in LaE, should I be punished?

What about if a new member joins LaE who's never played FFA before? Should they be punished?

Rules like what you're suggesting and what gregg often suggests punish the innocent along with the guilty.

I fully agree that cheating can endanger the game. However, most of us aren't going to leave because IMP or LaE or any other clan ran a few extra countries and got busted for it.

If game administrators start punishing the innocent along with the guilty and I start having my countries deleted for legal play because I decide to login to my countries at work during my break, I'm not going to keep playing.

If game administrators start punishing entire clans for the actions of one person or start forcing clans that had some level of previous cheating to play by special rules, they'll be entering the politics of the game, which they've explicitly stated they don't want to do. Furthermore, once the admins start stepping into politics, it cases into doubt every decision they make.

I have faith that the admins will continue to do a good job, and that they, considering they're the ones putting in time and money to rebuild this game, will consider the ramifications of their actions before they impose any steps that would enter them into the political realm of the game.

vern - yes, I did. Given the circumstances and current solutions, I'm ok with staying.

Sandman - I never said the trust factor thing was a surprise. All I said about it was that I'm not surprised people are reacting the way they are, so I'm not sure where you're seeing that.

- It is not up to me, or any other leader, to dictate where players can play from. Everyone has their own circumstances, and I know I personally access the game from at least 4 different IP addresses while playing %100 legit (home PC, laptop@work, computer@work, and iPhone). I agree though that individual IP's should, and will, be looked at suspiciously....but they are by no means an automatic indicator of a multi.

- LaE's member count always jived with the # of countries. The problem was that there were fake acct's to register those countries. Just on player base, it actually worked out that every person in LaE was playing an avg. of like 11 or 12 countries, if I remember correctly. Again, something to watch for, but not something that was an indicator this time around, nor likely to be with any sort of experienced multi runner.

- No, we actually were not thinking along those lines. It would be stupid, suspicious, and dishonest, and not what we are looking for in moving forward with LaE.

Thank you for the constructive criticism though.



Rico - Not that I'm overly concerned about making friends, but I was just using Prime as an example of what can happen when someone with an interest in the game has access to another clan's leadership information. I'm sure SYN players would have a thing or two to say about that idea, as well. It was not an effort to single him out, and he knows how to get a hold of me if he took offense to the comment.

If you play from both home and work you should let an admin know that's what's happening. BUT, if your 2 IPs show up on more than a single string of countries they should all get deleted.

I don't think there's need to notify admins so long as IP's are only logging to a single set of countries, and within reason (5+ is suspicious, imo). If there is ever duplication, then there's a problem.

Has anyone tried not pissing off Primeval?

I have only spoken to him twice but he seems like he keeps his friends close.

i piss prime off all the time hell i have left imp after arguments with prime in old earth

Ok. So maybe you need combining factors to pull it off?