Blasphemy

its not man. theres nothin to grab onto in the wheel barrow position either with stockings

Yeah TAN that's my country. And I'm not sweating it. Wasn't having a great set anyways

I think the policy is simply put in place to deter LGing from anyone and everyone trying to grab for stock late in the set. Thomas posted a head up on AT with a link to our retal policy for this purpose.

the first retal in question where our guy got his land back in one hit was a simple warning. he didnt take two PS's and over do it on the retal, he made his second hit an SS because it was the first hit within the 3 week period. we tried to give him benefit of the doubt here and ease into the 3 week policy and not totally rape your guy for simple ingnorance to our policy.

we know you guys read our threads because you posted in them here on at. i will say that maybe the first time you didnt know, thats fine, but now you do and we ask you respect our policy like we respet yours.

May 20/11 10:56:02 PM PS Felix Da Housecat (#3) (Sanct) Wolf Pack (#743) (Paradigm) 2513 A (+1190 A)

Hmm, I thought this was resolved. Guess not.

I highly doubt you really need to worry about your stock being taken from imag in the last 3 weeks of the set or any set ever. I mean really...we war every set, everyone knows that. :P

titpicnic

Imag are netters

Thomas, you sound like a little baby. You must work for the government. "It was posted on our site... wa wa wa" Guess what, I don't visit your piece of fluff site!

When I played in Omega you guys were/are douch bags that are very ignorant of how the game works, you always lost in retals and yet still would attack. Retard.

The mad is strong in this one.

Requiem - have a look at who took the long-term bait and loses out each time now :)

you can't say never. of course as the reset goes on it's less viable to grab, but as long as you do the math and the gains > the losses in jets/oil there's a gain to grab.

actually you proved your point by the internal farming of #125 that it is still beneficial to gain land as long as the cost is right (in this case... land: lots cost: almost none)

thanks hanlong... but this is an FA issue that doesnt concern you though your input is much appreciated. of course it is still viable to grab to an extent.

but we put a hold on our clan LGing any established alliance in the last 3 weeks of the set as many of them are either warring or netting. we hoped our policy would cover those (like certain members of pdm for instance) who find it entertaining to grab people who are netting right up until the end because said countries either cant, or chose not, to net. we also hoped to avoid many headaches for FA's who have to calculate topfeeds and reperations for lost stock/rebuilding etc... at the end of each set for members (on either side) who grab at the end of the set.

i do not see why this policy is causing such a frenzy here it seems to me to be a simple and viable courtesy to be extended to netters who still want to enjoy this game in such a way. we at sanct also try to make the game fun for others in terms of war every so often. it is hard to be a clan that wants to net and war because you either step on toes one way or another.

constructvie criticism with this policy is welcome but flaming and destructive criticism will be ignored or worse (via thomas' rants). so try to respect this policy or if there is an issue with it, try to contact one of our FA's (FP) to talk about it.

oh and Tan, i thought the hit above was approved by detmer? am i wrong?

WAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

PEACE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I am probably out of place, but if that was your intent, then an agreed DNH by the last days of the set would be better.

Also 3 weeks before set end is not a bad time to LG, ONE week before the end is a bad time... lets do the math

72 turns per day
504 turns a week
1512 turns in 3 weeks

If I have a crazy BPT and I am a farmer, then is quite profitable and beneficial to my country to keep grabbing like a mad man till 3 or 4 days before end set, I just have to make sure the breaks are not super high, and that I am always hitting Other Farmers and I am making gains on the attacks (easy if your Mil tech is high and you attack people with more land than you) stock has no bearing in this matter, farmers can't "Cash" their turns, so you may as well go and get a lot more land.

So this policy is bullfluff, you just want to make sure you can get lazy with your stock hiding skills.

Don't want to get grabbed 3 weeks before set end? get a +13M jets break and no one will fluff with you... you don't want to get that much mil? then grow a pair and learn to hide stock, so when a farmer hits you looking for free farms, you won't go and hide under a BS policy.

And again, if you don't want people to hit you, then contact their FA's and agree on a mutual DNH before (insert time here).

Its odd, no other alliance has had a problem with the policy yet PDM continues to grab :P

really chaos? a 25k acre all x should have a 13mil break? you dont net much do you buddy?

A grabber should be over 25K land, so your point is denied

You always want to go after people with at least 20% more land than you, so a 28K acres country grabbing a 35K acres was what I meant.

If you want to deny late grabbing then you need a high break, I never said 13M jet break was optimal to netting, I said if you don't want others to fluff with you, then you need at least that much.

You don't want that much mil? then grow a pair and learn to hide stock, with is a very important part of netting as well.

Also Kemo just do the math

I am a 29K acres Dictator/Farmer, and I go and hit a Fasc/Farmer with 36K acres, I won't go to do the calcs, but I would say you get at least 4000 raw acres + Ghost acres (maybe 3500 Ghost acres), and lose 3000 on the Retal + Ghost acres...

Unless the break was over 6M jets you got a gain out of it, heck those kind of grabs would be good to your country all the way to 9 days before the set end.

That is why I think this policy is bull, who said grabbing is bad when you have 21 days before set end? who? because I want to hit them with a metal bat.

and I don't give a fluff about this issue with PDM and Sanc, I just think this is a silly policy at best, and a BS policy at worse... yeah I can see Stock lost being part of the equation, but learn to hide it well and suck the hits...

Imo, the policy seems confused. If you wanted to prevent stock stealing, then to me, it would make more sense to have it say "any grabs that take stock will be retal'd 175% L:L, all others will be [insert your normal stuff here]". However, if you just wanted to prevent all grabbing, period, then asking FAs if they can set you to a nice DNH at the end of the set would be the logical thing to do.



And to add my two cents to the low defense debate: If you run on a lowered defense (25k acres having 6-10mil turrets [plus or minus a bit if you decide to invest in some weapons tech] + allies imo is nice defense), then you are knowingly taking a chance that you could get grabbed, regardless of whether or not you only explore or you grab. It's a calculated roll of the dice that could get you a better finish, or could get you steam-rolled.

i agree etplayer it is a calculated risk, i also agree againthat it is beneficial for some to keep grabbing late in the set. we on the other hand have had issues in several of our recent netting sets and thought this would be a good way to deter hits on both sides. our farmers have to suck it up and bottom feed while our others netters benefit from not being hit often. it is a double edge sword but benefits the majority of our clan while we net. as for you grabbing us and coming out ahead i doubt that would happen anyway, that only works if it C:C

Land:Land is retarded and helps those that are super lazy and don't want to invest in Mil Strat (Helps with fast killing as well)

and ET policy makes much more sense, 175% Land back over stock hit, or until 80% of the stock is taken back, I always disliked 1A fluffty policies, if you want other clans to avoid hitting you, then just talk it over with them at the start of the set, I would say is easy to get a DNH for the last few days of the set... 3 weeks is retarded, but I can see a lot of people agreeing to a 10/14 days DNH.

oh sorry for interjecting in this thread.

i do agree that it is in collab's best interest to make their policies to an extent where you don't get grabbed during the stocking phase.

what i meant was it was worth it to grab in the last few weeks if you aren't going to get retaled, it is pretty stupid though to hit someone who can retal in the last few weeks because the building costs aren't worth it. but again this is a generality, and really you have to calculate on each situation to make it worth it.

maybe PDM calculated and it was worth it to landtrade you guys? it does bug me a lot when people just grab to screw with others and end up not benefitting themselves too. i dont get why they even do it in the first place

i didn't mean to interfere with PDM/Collab's talk here, i was just bugged about a generality that i read and had to correct it =)

i'll move along now =)

L:L makes land trading viable in a way that (a majority of the time) everyone comes out with a little bit so that they don't feel like they needed some lube for that.

I agree that clear policy would be much better option that would receive less flame (though on AT, that would be asking a lot), but you need a clear goal for that. This policy doesn't seem like that to me (this is my opinion however :~>). Either way, if problems arise, you have a legitimate reason for WARRRRRRRRRR. Sorry, it slipped out.

I'm close to a 13 mil break that hasnt stopped anyone from grabbing me :P

Who really cares if the policy is posted or not? Its a bullfluff policy regardless if its posted. If Sanct tried to enforce it on me I'd suicide them. Though I'd assume my clan would war them over it first.

It was....

Apparently they aren't even on the same page in PDM.

I'm getting annoyed with this bullfluff

<- enforced the policy with 1 hit

Detmer doesn't tell me anything. From now on, direct all FA to him.

Apologies for the confusion.

What's really annoying me though is #87.

ET Land:Land helps both, that is true, but if one is lazy and doesn't get Mil strat then that person is somehow enlighten to do another grab and possibly take +120% of the land back, just because they suck....

For that Land:Land is lame

If everyone would just agree to get Mil Strat before a L;L retal then I wouldn't have an issue with it, as most would be deal on the first hit...

I prefer 1:1 as makes much more sense, yeah Land heavy countries have to get Extra defense to deter land skinny countries from grabbing them, but that is the whole point.

For countries of equal size, L:L for the most part just becomes 1:1. For unequally sized countries though, L:L is a much nicer option. My ~25k acre casher can grab a 35k acre country for ~4.5k acres plus another 3k in ghost acres. The larger country may take 2 retals to get the land back, but in the meantime, I've nicked a spare 3k acres, and the other guys gets more in ghost acres as well. Though unequal, it becomes just some land trading. And if you don't like the risk when it comes to grabbing, then don't grab. L:L makes everything equal, everyone has the chance to get what they had stolen, back. Topfeeds become a moot point. If you grab an all exploring country and they retal and only get 75% back on the first hitm and decide they want to get some tech4u, then sorry, you took that risk, and you lost. gg wp, move on.

i see what you mean tan... i hadnt notcied that before, but it does look to be benefitting both sides in terms of land gaing from ghost, but if those guys arent running the same strat then the hits are indeed lame. ill talk with him

This conversation doesn't make all that much sense to me :/

In the old days when I was netting, i'd gain 2k+ acres a day, or 3-4k acres a day from mid feeding. I'd be hit and lose 2k acres and go oh gosh darn, better buy more turrets. :X

Now people lose 3 acres and spew everywhere.

tragedy of commons people, thats all I'm saying. Everyone takes slightly more from the pie each time and before you know it there s no pie left.

babe im leaving, i must be on my way
time is drawing near

posting for points

I am the guy he is exchanging with. I have asked him politely before to stop hitting me, but he didn't bother replying and continued to hit again anyways, and i have to keep blowing stock to retal him. I could have had a good finish for once if not for him.

hi...

*....tags this one for later

Sounds just like #743. 150%L:L, only took SS to keep it from going high over 150%. He RoRs and we are authed to take L:L. Only take 1 PS (not L:L) and he RoRs the authed hits without reason. Hmm.

Well, I am the one getting grabbed by #87. Therefore, as the theory goes, I *could* be going by your retal policy, which is 150% land:land. But I'm not -- I'm going 100% land:land. However, our retal policy supercedes yours.

So there you have it. We enforce our retal policy even when it's inconvenient to us.

i dropped him a pm we will see how he responds

Thanks LD.

Well, I am the one being grabbed by #743. As your theory goes I could have gone by what Detmer authorized for the original RoR, which was L:L. But I didn't -- I went 1:1 and came back with -1500 land and was willing to call it even.

This instance has nothing to do with retal policy as yours does but I feel they're sort of similar situations. To me it just sort of seems I tried to be friendly throughout the unwanted exchange of hits and PDM has had no problem taking advantage of it. I'd go further to believe you are condoning your member RoRing hits PDM leadership authorized simply because it is an inconvenience to us based upon your statement but it is possible I am just misreading things. He already confirmed via retal message that he was grabbing and causing a problem just for the hell of it. I just hope that LD isn't the only one trying to be reasonable here by telling members to lay off.

I will look into it.

Thanks TAN.

May 23/11 6:49:54 PM PS Felix Da Housecat (#3) (Sanct) Wolf Pack (#743) (Paradigm) 2978 A (+1405 A)
May 23/11 6:49:54 PM PS Felix Da Housecat (#3) (Sanct) Wolf Pack (#743) (Paradigm) 2978 A (+1405 A)
May 22/11 5:06:46 AM PS Wolf Pack (#743) (Paradigm) Felix Da Housecat (#3) (Sanct) 3701 A (+2482 A)
May 20/11 10:56:02 PM PS Felix Da Housecat (#3) (Sanct) Wolf Pack (#743) (Paradigm) 2513 A (+1190 A)
May 19/11 11:50:05 PM PS Wolf Pack (#743) (Paradigm) Felix Da Housecat (#3) (Sanct) 4070 A (+1844 A)
May 18/11 9:43:49 PM SS Felix Da Housecat (#3) (Sanct) Wolf Pack (#743) (Paradigm) 1386 A (+656 A)
May 17/11 10:37:47 PM PS Felix Da Housecat (#3) (Sanct) Wolf Pack (#743) (Paradigm) 2842 A (+1350 A)
May 17/11 9:40:40 AM PS Wolf Pack (#743) (Paradigm) Felix Da Housecat (#3) (Sanct) 2992 A (+1457 A)


----------

What's the problem here? He makes one lg, you retal 150% l:l, despite getting 100% l:l back on your first hit, not to mention way more loot than he took from you.

Then he retals. Then you retal his retal. Then he retals the retal of his retal. Then you double tap his retal on the retal of his retal.

Looks legit to me.

What do you mean by "I'd go further to believe you are condoning your member RoRing hits PDM leadership authorized simply because it is an inconvenience to us based upon your statement but it is possible I am just misreading things."

At least we are sticking to our own retal policy, even if it hinders US as well. Remember, I would be much better off using your retal policy instead of ours, and since a Sanct country is the aggressor in my case, I would have the right. But as I said, we stick to our retal policy for ALL hits, even if it screws us over in the process.

May 20/11 10:56:02 PM PS Felix Da Housecat (#3) (Sanct) Wolf Pack (#743) (Paradigm) 2513 A (+1190 A)
May 19/11 11:50:05 PM PS Wolf Pack (#743) (Paradigm) Felix Da Housecat (#3) (Sanct) 4070 A (+1844 A

Isn't that where detmer said take one more retal to us? then your guy went ahead and RoR'd the one detmer authed? I could be wrong :P