Conservatives put abortion on agenda already.

H4xOr WaNgEr

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May 5th 2011, 22:08:24

Less than 72 hours after being elected to majority, the Cons are already putting the following on the agenda for the next 12 months:

Abortion
Scrapping the long Gun Registry
Scrapping the Canadian Wheat Board
Major refugee system reforms.

Well.. so much for talks of sticking to a purely economic/fiscal conservative agenda.

Discuss!

Detmer

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May 5th 2011, 22:41:15

My condolences. It appears too much American culture has infiltrated your lands. I hope your country has learned its lesson about electing regressives.

braden

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May 5th 2011, 22:47:15

no, they are the progressive conservatives

Flamey

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May 5th 2011, 22:57:48

Agreed, the first two are regressive. The conservatives on the other side of the ocean have long abandoned things like that. The other two points I can't comment on, because I don't know anything about them.

H4xOr WaNgEr

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May 5th 2011, 23:03:25

They aren't the progressive conservatives.

The progressive conservatives merged with the Canadian alliance to form "The Conservative party of Canada" who now forms our government.

braden

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May 5th 2011, 23:20:00

so literal, my goodness. it was a joke because he called them regressive. i have a bad sense of humour, i apologize.

H4xOr WaNgEr

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May 5th 2011, 23:22:35

ahhh ok heh.

Sorry, but you know how it is trying to read inflection/intend in online posts! I take all the blame.

Evolution

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May 5th 2011, 23:24:03

Sorry but as an Australian, I think the Canadian Wheat board should die. They are corrupt and incompetent, when they were caught they rat'ed out every other countries Wheat boards for corruption (seems all wheat boards are corrupt) and were let of the hook. This allowed them to expand their market share (>^^)>. So I have no sympathy for them.

Are they pro or anti Abortion? Though its hard to tell which side parties are on in Australia too (based on current polls).

I think its a bad idea to get rid of gun registry, Canada is a great country like Australia in terms of gun control.

Not sure what direction the refugee system is going either.

Not posting on AT as much because Maki/Steeps gave back some of my forums on GHQ. RIP my decade long blog, my blog even had replies from people who are no longer with us :(.

braden

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May 5th 2011, 23:28:05

we'll have to share any blame because ii accept this, i do have a terrible sense of humour and often do a very poor job conveying the sarcasm or intended wit even in person (emphasis on intended :P)

KeTcHuP

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May 5th 2011, 23:30:04

"there will be no discussion of Abortion under my Caucaus."
-Stephen Harper.

Man of his word!

Ketchup the Thoughtful Suicidier

H4xOr WaNgEr

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May 5th 2011, 23:30:07

I'm pro killing the wheat board as well, but it is a contentious issue here and they didn't touch on it at all during the campaign.

They are anti abortion.

The refugee reforms revolve around making it a lot harder for people to claim refugee status, and a lot easier to reject their applications and ship them back. The new law they will table also has specific measures for dealing with human smugglers. Basically taking a stance similar to Australia's, back when they were really going after the boats. (Once again not necessarily bad, but contentious and not mentioned during the campaign).

The gun registry I am for killing, and this one actually isn't a surprise. They've been trying to kill it for a while now but couldn't get support from another party.

KeTcHuP

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May 5th 2011, 23:32:09

Sorry proper quote:
“But I think I’ve been very clear as party leader.… As long as I’m prime minister we are not reopening the abortion debate."

Ketchup the Thoughtful Suicidier

KeTcHuP

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May 5th 2011, 23:33:19

h4x0r where is a link to this?

Ketchup the Thoughtful Suicidier

braden

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May 5th 2011, 23:33:33

we have no abortion laws currently, right? they want to outlaw abortion outright (anti abortion) or they want to regulate it, somehow?

and kill the gun registry meaning i don;t need to apply for a license to buy a rifle? I'm down with this.

H4xOr WaNgEr

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May 5th 2011, 23:36:58

Thats right, we currently have no abortion laws, they were all struck down in the 80's through constitutional challenges.

The cons can't outright ban abortion, as the supreme court has already decided that abortion is a right under the "security of person" section of the charter.

So they must be looking at regulating it. Not allowing them after a certain stage in the pregnancy etc.

Gun Registry: You will still need to have a licence to handle firearms, you just won;'t need to register every rifle you purchase with the RCMP.

braden

Member
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May 5th 2011, 23:43:26

so that pal thing i still need, its harmless i just haven't done it. no reason i couldn't get it, felony or anything, i mean i have the sixty dollars. If i were to ever want to buy an antique colt firearm, i'd have to register that with them even as a show piece?

do you disagree with not allowing them after a certain stage in the pregnancy? i can only think at some point the child needs to be thought of, and i'm pretty sure murder goes against the "security of persons" act.. ? i don't want to start this argument, i remember them from the old boards all those years ago :P

H4xOr WaNgEr

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May 5th 2011, 23:57:14

"security of persons" is a constitutional right in the charter of rights and freedoms. It isn't an act :P

I agree that certain limits should be set on abortions, how late into the term being one of them.

But legally, there isn't any grounds from the arguement you presented. The supreme court already ruled that a fetus isn't classified as a "person" and thus is unable to recieve the constitutional rights of a person. The fetus, according to law, does not become a "person" until it is born.

Any regs on abortion would have to be defended via another argument. For example: safety concerns for the mother in later stages of pregnancy.

But in practice, we have limits already, as Doctors are allowed to refuse to abort if they feel it is unsafe for the mother.

braden

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May 6th 2011, 1:03:34

you're right, but you also didn't need to point it out :P (the act)

Pain

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May 6th 2011, 1:49:14

any change that removes restrictions on gun ownership is a good change.

Your mother is a nice woman

Evolution

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May 6th 2011, 1:59:46

Originally posted by H4xOr WaNgEr:

The refugee reforms revolve around making it a lot harder for people to claim refugee status, and a lot easier to reject their applications and ship them back. The new law they will table also has specific measures for dealing with human smugglers. Basically taking a stance similar to Australia's, back when they were really going after the boats.

Unfortunately the current government's let them all in policy backfired with a 1000% increase in people seeking refugee status in the first month and a 3000% increase per month to date.

The government introduced a slow down to the process of letting refugees into the country and the refugees set the facilities on fire and built a bomb(most recent).

Why do you want to remove restrictions of gun ownership?

Look at the difference in gun related crimes in Australia/Canada vs the USA. In Australia we had one masacre and the government reacted by banning high powered and automatic weapons country wide. I love guns, and had to surrender quite a few weapons, but even so I support the idea totally. For hunting do you really need a m16?

Not posting on AT as much because Maki/Steeps gave back some of my forums on GHQ. RIP my decade long blog, my blog even had replies from people who are no longer with us :(.

H4xOr WaNgEr

Forum Moderator
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May 6th 2011, 2:02:52

you can't own anything close to a m16 in Canada and repealing the long gun registry won't change that.

The only real change is that you won't have to register your rifles with the Federal police, whereas currently you do.

Detmer

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May 6th 2011, 2:59:09

So what is wrong with registering a weapon? That way you can kill people without them knowing you did it?

Silent Sentinel

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May 6th 2011, 3:51:12

Less guns, more abortion.

KeTcHuP

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May 6th 2011, 6:36:09

It costs money to keep the registery going.

Ketchup the Thoughtful Suicidier

ViLSE

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May 6th 2011, 8:14:42

Just have more guns instead and then everyone will shoot eachother and thus less people will have a chance to be born or ever become pregnant!

Anywho anti-abortionists are loony toons in my opinion!

braden

Member
11,480

May 6th 2011, 12:32:46

those who want to murder unborn children are a little looney in my books, vilse.

maybe we'll have to meet somewhere in the middle ;)

Sifos

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May 6th 2011, 14:22:16

How about using guns for abortions?

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martian

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May 6th 2011, 15:03:11

Opening the abortion debate in Canada would be political suicide for the conservatives and Harper knows it. The media is grabbing on to stuff as usual. At most they might do something purely symbolic.

99% of the areas where there is significant support for this are not areas with opposition seats. However it would be enough for the CPC to lose support in areas that would relegate them to the dust bin once again.

The gun registry issue is somewhat overhyped. Them scrapping it isn't going to to make a huge difference to the crime rate imo.
We aren't talking about changing how easy/hard it is to get a weapon.

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Pang

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May 6th 2011, 15:24:25

i've never got what the big deal is with the gun registry...

Every time I go to Best Buy they ask for my phone number and track my purchases... this technology has been around since the 80's

With all the technology we have now, I've never understood why the government opted to create the gun registry the way it did

re: abortion -> that's pretty messed up they would consider discussing that so soon after their victory. I expect that, as Marshall states, there would still be a ton of caveats available that could not be legislated around even if there were able to "ban" late term abortions... like if it endangers the life of the mother, a doctor feels it's necessary for some other reason, rape/incest, etc

and as always, abortions for some, miniature canadian flags for others.

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ViLSE

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May 6th 2011, 16:33:17

Braden Im afraid I wont budge one inch here. Women have a right to decide what they do with their own bodies and thats that.
:)

Other than that I think H4x is already making some good points above so I will leave this argument be.

braden

Member
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May 6th 2011, 18:20:56

yea, meet somewhere in the middle i meant respectfully disagree.

however, i don't entirely disagree with you.

ZDH

Member
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May 6th 2011, 18:24:00

Didn't read all the fluff you guys posted but.

I know they used the abortion thing to cut funding toward alot of the "Planned Parenthood" clinics. So yay we saved money and saved some babies!

Oh yeah...Bush killed Osama himself personally! It's a fact.

-BigZ

Dibs Ludicrous

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May 6th 2011, 19:39:00

Originally posted by ViLSE:

so, technically, they have the right and capability to not get knocked up and require an abortion in the first place?

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Dibs Ludicrous

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May 6th 2011, 19:51:44

just out of curiosity, how much healthcare does a pregnant woman require to birth a healthy baby, and what happens if she can't afford to pay for it herself and doesn't have the required insurance?

how money does the state make off of seizing a baby where the mother couldn't afford to pay the required fees?

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Pain

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May 6th 2011, 19:56:18

Originally posted by Dibs Ludicrous:

Originally posted by ViLSE:

so, technically, they have the right and capability to not get knocked up and require an abortion in the first place?

then you blame the condom company.

i think everyone should experience an abortion before they knock it. you never know if youll enjoy it.

Your mother is a nice woman

qzjul

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May 6th 2011, 19:59:33

I don't see why people make such a distinction at pre-infant stages of life; if a fetus has less brain power than a cat, why do you have no problems with people putting down cats, but *DO* have a problem aborting the fetus? What part of human cellular matter is so special?

Also, at what point do you draw the line? An early abortion removes a fetus that is less cells than I lose in the shower; should we not ban showers? and what of those precious skin cells you're washing down the drain?

Seriously, conservatives need to learn a little biology.

I think anything that can "consciously think" perhaps, pass the mirror test even, should be protected sure... but fetuses (heck even infants) don't really pass that.

The other thing that amuses me about the religious right, is that they're the ones who always want the death penalty heh...

Finally did the signature thing.

Dibs Ludicrous

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May 6th 2011, 20:08:24

i should blame a company that is pretty much totally devoted to preventing the human species from perpetuating, so that people can engage in casual sex whenever they want to fulfill their libidos, instead of asking whether or not women have the right and capability of not engaging in the act that'll knock them up in the first place?

think i'm a going need some time to think of or create a decent name to properly address your rubbery non-procreative ass.

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Dibs Ludicrous

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May 6th 2011, 20:24:51

Originally posted by qzjul:

well, see, Humans have a Soul. it's not exactly tangible, and they have not quite located which organ it currently resides in, but it's essentially what they feel will keep them from being eaten for dinner. even though the lions and tigers and bears, oh my! don't particularly care whether it's part of what they eat or not. wonder if they get any extra longevity if they happen to eat a human, usually the end up getting hunted and killed for it, but if they escape that....

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H4xOr WaNgEr

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May 6th 2011, 20:32:34

Originally posted by Dibs Ludicrous:

There are no fees, its free.

qzjul

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May 6th 2011, 20:35:07

Originally posted by Dibs Ludicrous:

Evidence for a human soul? oh right, there ISN'T ANY!

I'm not sure I follow your keeping tigers and bears from getting eaten thing?

Also I have a feeling you're being facetious but I'm not 100% sure.

Finally did the signature thing.

Dibs Ludicrous

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May 6th 2011, 20:44:06

Originally posted by H4xOr WaNgEr:

Originally posted by Dibs Ludicrous:

There are no fees, its free.

just because the mother doesn't pay for it herself, nor out of her husband's pocket does not make it free. wait, a minute, we're talking about Canada right? so, essentially, every citizen coughs up like 1/2 their income to pay for this free stuff?

and to qzjul, well, humans don't get eaten for dinner, do they?

well, also, i don't know exactly why you're going on about a Cat having the same intelligence as the sponge that is simply there to grow up and disturb my trolling because they can bang on the door to the laundry room... err, wait...

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Dibs Ludicrous

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May 6th 2011, 20:53:39

how the heck should i know what to think about any of this crap, they're passing out condoms to 11 year olds in Philadelphia because 25% of them have engaged in sexual activity in the last year.... ain't allowed to work a job, but they can go around fornicating because they don't have anything else better to do.

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Dibs Ludicrous

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May 6th 2011, 21:05:48

http://www.foxnews.com/...gn-targets-kids-young-11/

would be nice if i could just make it up, and not have to live with it being a reality. so, um, what, we have, are people that are 7 years from becoming legitimate adults whom actually have rights under our constitution, that are engaging in sexual activity that could produce children which may at some time in the future have the right to vote, even though their parents were not eligible voters at the time of conception... the country will end up being ruled by a bunch of brain dead retards who can't think past the humpa-humpa i saw a female ass, made me horny so i farked her...

Edited By: Dibs Ludicrous on May 6th 2011, 21:12:28. Reason: engrish corrections.
See Original Post

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Popcom

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May 6th 2011, 21:14:03

Canadians don't cough up 1/2 there income for health care... you been watching to many tea party commercials :P

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Dibs Ludicrous

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May 6th 2011, 21:15:58

really? what percentage do they have to cough up to wait in line until it becomes a life threatening situation?

i honestly don't care how much you have to cough up in the form of income tax to pay for your "free health care", y'all run around and act like it doesn't cost resources and money for people to provide it.

think i'll go play my Rocky and Bull-Winkle table on Pinball FX2, should keep a Canadian on life-support for at least a day...

Edited By: Dibs Ludicrous on May 6th 2011, 21:22:06
See Original Post

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Popcom

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May 6th 2011, 21:18:08

you dont have to wait in line until it becomes a life threatening situation.
once again, you have watched to many tea party commercials.
remember, some people are Canadian. and thus, we know what we're talking about. you may be able to repeat lies and hearsay till they "become" true where u come from. but to me, a spade is a spade, and u cant convince me its a heart ;)

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qzjul

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May 6th 2011, 21:19:13

Canadians actually have a lower taxrate than americans oddly enough...

Finally did the signature thing.

BobbyATA

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May 6th 2011, 21:19:44

lol qzjul your argument is so easily ripped apart. Try getting those cells you lose in the shower to grow into a human adult... Similarly try getting your cat to turn human...

Dibs Ludicrous

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May 6th 2011, 21:24:26

Originally posted by Popcom:

yes, but with you, i can repeat lies and hearsay ad infinitum because you simply imply that there is a greater truth, but don't even come close to delivering a truthful statement.

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Popcom

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May 6th 2011, 21:24:54

[quote poster=qzjul; 9360; 163169
I think anything that can "consciously think" perhaps, pass the mirror test even, should be protected sure... but fetuses (heck even infants) don't really pass that. [/quote]

just noticed this.

so your saying its ok to kill a baby?

if (and i certainly hope) you say no. where does the line get drawn?
this is my problem with abortion. who says when its ok and not ok to have one..
if u can have one at 4 months, why not 6?, why not 9?
IMO once brain function starts its wrong to take that life. before that its nothing but a cluster of cells.
but once u say its ok to kill it, where/when do u draw the line?

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