ok, i have stayed out of this assbattle with Ivan and what not, but seriously.

A suicider hit SoF just now, and within minutes #160 was farming the suicider. Now he may very well have just seen the news, and not be associated with the suicider, but this does not change the fact that its literally 2 stepping. you are robbing them of the chance to get their land back.

if the tables were turned. if i suicided LaF for thousands of acres, and then say evo farmed me while i was hitting LaF. what would you all say? i know for a FACT you would fluff louder than Ivan did last war.

Seriously, where did the respect go on this server? Unpacted clans used to work together to kill suiciders before they could do any more damage to the server. There used to be a unspoken respect about these things.

are you seriously that desperate for land that you are willing to risk a WAR with SoF for what, 600 acres?

i really dont like what has happened to this server, and there are a bunch of things to blame, that is not what this thread is about. Im just really disappointed LaF.

I have to agree with Ford on this one. I have much respect for both alliances, before I start.

I used to do FA and the biggest bunch of BS I had to deal with was Land Snatching.

If you see my alliance was attacked(doesn't matter attack type) stay away and let us get whats owed.

After 4-5 years away I guess its every alliance for themselves.

To the little pissant(s) doing the grabs/ABs/whatever....seriously? Grow a pair and show us who you really are.

And which alliance did we hurt so badly that you feel the need to be a pain in the arse?

?

I have no stake in this argument but

1. Sof farmed the suicider first.
2. 21 from Sanct also farmed the suicider.
3. Most of his suiciding was ABs so why is Sof entitled to any land.
4. Yes the server is in such a state that that little land is worth it.

Sof was the alliance hit highrock.

yes i know that. that still does not address my points.

Sof has a policy for this very situation

Though I couldn't get an answer about why it wasn't enforced the last time this clown suicided on them and was farmed by laf/evo

Stop being a whiny pissant Ford. And stop trying to spin it.

i dont see where i spun, and im not crying at all. if you know anything about me you know i dont care about land or any of that fluff.

stop over simplifying things and dismissing them as this mysterious "spin" that you use too much.

also, no where in my post did i put any blame on the suicider, so you were not insulted iScode

lol stop being a spinner ford. Its obvious. As others said... why is this thread not named... Sanct: Re: #21.

Grow up... long story short you are an idiot. And you have a habit of being a fluff just to be a fluff and I think thats lame.

its not nammed that because when this thread was created, #160 was the only one to of hit him after he hit SoF back

thats a pretty simple spin free explanation isnt it?

i really dont understand your extreme aggressive defensiveness. i havnt been on about alliance server politics in a few months, and i dont ever remember specifically looking at LaF in the past.

who is being the fluff in this thread? i assure you im far from an idiot.

looks like #21 stopped when #748's hits turned into ABs, effectively changing #748's actions from retals into suiciding

Better question, why didn't those SoFers have more tanks!

and when NA did this all the time while you were leading there it was cool, mrford?

I agree with Pang! what has been seen can not be unseen.

*pokes own eyes out and chases De1i around*

He did 1 hit before the sanct guy did a bunch. His other hits were before the attack and then he proceeded to continue. So unless you posted this at the exact moment he hit I doubt your statement is true. Unless you are just too dumb to read the times.

Just let it be ford, if certain pacts starts getting mass suicided i know for one that im not in the mood to help them get rid of them

we will just sit and 2 step and watch the fun!

As for locket/pang we might as well farm them since they are going to suicide on us anyway, a million times ive seen laf/evo/fluff farm untaggeds and then the untaggeds turn around and suicide another tag

Also what certain FA's doesnt get when ive posted warnings or talk to them is that im doing it for them and hardly for me but im sure they will understand that one day

fluff!

If you don't want to get hit have defense.

Mmh I heard that thefist is running suiciders on RD, not suprised at all if yer among them Toma gj big and brave

Firstly, iScode, this thread has nothing to do with SoF challenging #784s decission to suicide on us. (Also check out what I said on the other thread).

It was directed towards LaF directly profitting from suiciding against us. There is two stepping and there is this, farming an untag, while it is ABing itself out of DR against us. It is a whole new level. It is pretty innevitable that our pacts will include two stepping clauses next set. Yes those people should have tanks, but you can't make everyone in a 80 member tag that isnt used to suiciders change its attitude overnight.

Back to Scode... We've been suicided on unprovoked all set, it is hardly any surprise that we've lost all restraint and guilt hitting them. It is my belief that this guy was the same guy who was hitting us earlier in this set. The same guy who sent pacts to us then prepared to suicide on other alliance to make us look bad. The guy was obviously no n00b as his country was setup to do this kind of damage and he knew which types of countries would be effected the most, but again see my other post in the other thread.

Meh... this is rediculous, when all untaggeds are in max dr, people are going to take what they can get, just like the sanct guy did, just like the laffer did.

Im never one to condone suiciding, but to say its unprovoked is a bit of a stretch flamey... The reset you market buyout'd to the top before you did any of it, i told you(sof leaders) flat out aid chains will get you suicided and i was ignored. You cost evo top ranks, evo suicide you when you netgain, it sucks but its the how the game is played by alliances too afraid to war by themselves i.e. evo. The next two resets you've been suicided its not really a coincidence.

Its like rd saying they are being suicided unprovoked when the inter land trade... you have to be a moron not to see the correlation meh. When you do something that pisses someone off, but they are too scared to do anything about it, they suicide, its a sad reality that didnt used to be there because the alliances behind such actions would get stomped on for it before...

@SS:

1. Evo warred SoF just last set, albeit in a arranged war.
2. Evo have 52 countries tagged this set, think we got a "spare" to suicide SoF?
3. Evo have absolutely no gain from suiciding SoF. We'd rather win ANW and TNW.
4. Your accusation is groundless.

Speaking as myself here. I'm no evo spokesperson.

Sorry about bursting your bubble, SS, but Evo hasn't condoned suiciding any established alliance in years, which is more than I can say for LaF...

"i know for a FACT you would fluff louder than Ivan did last war"

I know for a fact that SoF did this very same thing to me. So if they want to fluff and complain to whomever, then they should be prepared to not do it themselves.

"but they are too scared to do anything about it, they suicide,"

I know, SS, and often suicide people who aren't involved in what it is that is pissing them off! :P

you are the most ignorant person on these boards if you think LaF or Evo haven't had their share of suiciders who they didn't touch in the past.
You know how many times there were countries who LaF didn't even touch, but suicided on LaF? More than I can even remember. Up to and including last set. I wish I could discuss all this more, but I had to look into this for multi-related issues last night, so I'm stuck talking about the political implications from now on. :(

I think what you need to realize, or already realize but won't admit, is that you're forcing this issue yourself to create conflict.
I do not at all believe you are doing this for anything other than to push netters away from you to reinforce the current divide between netters and fighters.
Your attitude on this issue has been ignorant, inflamatory and outright stupid from the outset. You're unwilling to do things to protect your tag, you're unwilling to take advice from two of the best anti-suicider players still playing, yet you're unwilling to work with your allies to do things about it, and instead you just want to hurl insults and work to build up public momentum for god knows what.

You know what you should do with these alliances? Go talk to them -- have a sit down with Enshula or qz and discuss what kind of good solutions going forward. This is not a difficult problem, and this is something that at least LaF was used to dealing with as part of a larger group.
If I was still Don of LaF, this would either be a non-issue or I'd be on here calling you out for not actually working to resolve the issue, which I kind of am anyway because I've been tired of your attitude since the outset. There are OBVIOUS easy solutions to this problem (both structural within SoF and political between SoF + Evo/LAF/anyone) yet you seem unwilling to do anything other than keep your countries on low def and complain and complain and complain.

Jesus christ dude, pull your head out of your ass and either admit this is a WWF-style plotline where you're being the heel to create conflict or actually work to solve the problem instead of forcing new conflict on others over your own alliance's inability to defend against 6 day old countries.

My point is not to stir, trash, or cause an issue that's not already an issue.

My main point, speaking as a former FA, is that you see the country is in conflict with SoF. It used to be that other alliances would back off and let you deal with the country. Not jump on the bones and get what you can from it so it benefits YOU.

I just don't see how that is getting lost in Anti-LaF dribble.

You farmed him, you rolled the dice, and you lost. gg wp

Reckless: NA was one of the worst alliances for farming suiciders back on e2025 when they were rampant.

If someone benefits from the suicider, they should certainly be willing to help out killing it/working to help the countries that got hit. That was something that I always worked towards within LaF -- I would often help others (including "netting enemies" such as Evo) kill suiciders just because it's the right thing to do. I'm pretty sure enshula is a nicer guy than I am, so I'm absolutely certain that if anyone from SoF approached him appropriately that the response would be more beneficial for SoF than this smear campaign currently is.

Its not smear what-so-ever. I respect both alliances.

I just have to agree with Ford in the aspect that if this was SoF grabbing countries hitting LaF I don't believe LaF would be happy.

That goes for every alliance. I just don't see how you can do that. Like I said, this isn't Netters Anonymouss' thoughts. Since '99, these are mine. I don't think that's right to do..thats all.

Let's be happy server.

Let it be natural. Like the way we war and goes beyond.

As simple as "No, we don't like you, naw, take it and eat! /me stuff stroker's cheesesteak to Pang's mouth..

I like CeyLonTEa.

This is actually very solid analysis from SolidSnake. The "uNAP everybody" model has completely broken down alliance "inflicted" discipline, now players are starting to do it.

I was a head in LaF when this happened numerous times to us... my typical response was basically this: go to the alliance who hit it, see what they're willing to do to help us kill it/help those who got hit. Sometimes alliances would help (friends/people who would want it to be a two-way street) and sometimes they wouldn't (people who wanted to start conflict).
However, this was over tens of thousands of acres and billions of stock. We needed to then kill a t10 country a month and a half into the round, sitting on max tech with 1000a and requiring a 14m jet BR break.
This is a 6 day old country who took a total of like 2k acres from countries that a SoF leader described as "pretty inactive."

I've been chatting with LaF and Evo about this issue as it's been ongoing, and the kind of overtures which have been typical in fighting suiciders have been thrown out the window by SoF and replaced with random trolling :p

like I said, I'm mainly just calling bullfluff on the sentiment behind this issue, as this is something that a 10 minute conversation would resolve if ivan was willing to do so. I was in SoF last set and this attitude does not align with what I saw while I was there. SoF's a strong alliance with a storied history of dealing with challenges and adversity by rising to the occasion. This whole manner of discussion just seems like that something that should be below them, as an alliance.

And to be honest the only SoFers who have been complaining about this are Ivan and mrford aka the retards. I think the majority of SoF would recognise that they farmed the country here before it suicided..

I'm not disagreeing that this cannot be fixed. I'm not saying LaF and SoF are just going to battle.

I am agreeing with Mr Ford that there was a time where these type of matters didn't happen. However, when they did, someone got dealt with. My P.O.V. is I don't understand the reasoning to hit a suicider that just attacked your ally to get land. It befuddles me. Old school I guess...

solid argumentative points Pontius Pirate. if all else fails call them a retard!

what a fluffing tool

agreed

but when wars stopped being about legitimate in-game reasons and more about political out-maneuvering, the pact system was bound to move in that direction.

now we have a combination of alliances being completely pacted out and unable to do ANYTHING (even help allies) or they're basically a sitting duck to be hit if the wheel of misfortune lands on their alliance that round.

the natural order has broken down and I'm still waiting for it to be properly re-established. It's been a year and a half and we're still on the same path that led us here.

i think everyone can agree that this server's community is not as healthy as it should be, and realistically it hasn't been since around the time EC started.

those are criticisms across the board, and I definitely bear my share of the responsibility for that -- I was one of the advocates of ridiculous pacting and political maneuvering for years :p
but it's those sort of short-term decisions that have created long-term structural problems in the Alliance style of gaming. And that's unfortunate because the Alliance style is my favourite style, and I know a lot of other folks feel the same way :p

It is the best for me. In over 12 years I never played any other game type.

Everyone is friends with everyone. The game was build on vicious rivalries and Alliance hitting Alliance. It seems as if no leader wants to take a chance in the short of losing member base.

lolski, by your response i assume you know who the suiciders are too. I expect to hear they've been booted in an attempt to cover yourselves claiming they acted on their own.

Although we both know the truth, evo will be evo.

why can't you guys (SoF) just talk to me and we can discuss something that makes us both happy instead of doing AT FA?

i tried reaching out to helmet on IRC earlier this reset after i saw the suiciding with an offer to help, but i was never responded to. he probably just missed it though...

shoot me a message and we can talk...

hlw im not even sure ford is in sof, i think he went back to na for the reunion reset i.e. the we've learned how to run multies again reset.

um, im i SoF, but inactive. and NA isnt running multies, the admins have extensively looked into it and were offered accounts with NA as further evidence.

do you ever expect anyone to take you seriously when you talk out of your ass so often?

i said the same thing for 4 years, you had the same response, i was right, you were lying. Do you really expect me to change my mind when im proven right so regularly? you forget i played in na when they were at 230 members, they had maybe 40 semi-active insite, you're telling me that they have double that now? not impossible, but highly doubtful.

if you think they are cheating, go to the admins. i assure you they arnt as ive read the admin thread about it.

just because the admins cant find it, doesnt mean they arnt doing it, it took the admins a fair few resets to catch them first time around on ee, it wouldn't surprise me it takes a similar information spillage for them to be caught again.

NA was busted for cheating on EE?

news to me. I seem to remember jager, a low level member, being deleted. but i dont remember a mass NA cheating scandal. please enlighten me.

Am still waiting for the Reductio Ad Paradigmum.

ford dont be retarded