Right now, most countries attack exclusively with Jets. A simple change to the way gains are determined could give people an incentive to use troops or tanks as part of their attacking army.

You gain anywhere from 100% to 120% of the normal landgains depending on what portion of your attacking army is jets
You gain anywhere from 0 to 400% of the normal technology gains depending on what portion of your attacking army is tanks
You gain anywhere from 0 to 400% of the normal food & cash gains depending on what portion of your attacking army is troops

These would not be special attacks. If you did a Standard Strike with only tanks, you would still need to defeat the enemy's troops, turrets, tanks, and defensive allies. But your tech gains would be tremendous (and land gains would not have any bonus).

The numbers may or may not be balanced, but obviously could be adjusted to properly balance them. Obviously, since the main reason for grabbing is to gain land, the tech and the food & cash gains need a much higher percent cap. Also, the way DR is affected by LGs would need to be changed.

But on the positive side, this would bring strategy into determining what offensive units to use when attacking, and would increase the demand for tanks and troops as more than just protection against GS and AB, or for networth at the end of the set.

/me shakes fist at qz, ozzite, enshula

I was thinking maybe lump tech in with troops and make tanks responsible for ghost acres (buildings - buildings not being destroyed)

hm
Detmer: at me??

Rockman: interesting idea; in general i like it.



Total Gains
Troops-- (Tr 1Bad 0Good 0Neutral)
Jets (J 0Bad 0Good 1Neutral)
Tanks++ (Ta 0Bad 1Good 0Neutral)

Ghost acres
Troops++ (Tr 1Bad 1Good 0Neutral)
Jets-- (J 1Bad 0Good 1Neutral)
Tanks (Ta 0Bad 1Good 1Neutral)

Food/Cash
Troops++ (Tr 1Bad 2Good 0Neutral)
Jets (J 1Bad 0Good 2Neutral)
Tanks-- (Ta 1Bad 1Good 1Neutral)

Losses (+ is more losses)
Troops++ (Tr 2Bad 2Good 0Neutral)
Jets (J 1Bad 0Good 3Neutral)
Tanks-- (Ta 1Bad 2Good 1Neutral)

Tech
Troops-- (Tr 3Bad 2Good 0Neutral)
Jets++ (J 1Bad 1Good 3Neutral)
Tanks (Ta 1Bad 2Good 2Neutral)

Thoughts/Balance?

what do you mean with bad, good and neutral?

i was tallying them as i went... to make sure that say i don't have all tanks-- and troops++

qz, gimpco folk who aren't me and Rockman =P

so to be sure I understand your point qz - sending more troops would result in lower land gains?

higher troop proportion; and i was thinking base land, not necessarily after ghost acres

but i was asking for thoughts/balance :) it's a neat idea that adds complexity without changing too much

looks good

i'm sure you have an excel sheet with the landgrab formulas qz, simply add your modification and play a bit with "attacks" to see the outcome :)

Awesome idea, generally, a flaw I see with the way it's presented is that jets are predominant in getting more land. Make troops give you more land (logical too, land must be occupied) and jets do something else. Generally very much like though.

i've been thinking a bit lately about how we could include an "air superiority" mechanic, which may dovetail nicely with this discussion

but that is a huuuuuuge shift in how mechanics work as well :-/

cool discussion though :)

I like this thread. Just trying to sort through it in my head.... musing out loud....

Combine idea of troops/tanks for land/ghost gains with air superiority.

-In order to gain land from A SS/PS attackers troop/jet strength must outnumber defenders troop/jet strength (including tech bonuses etc). So long as attacking country breaks defending country land gains will be made.

TROOPS:
- Attack gains range from 80-100% depending on attacker troop strength to defender troop strength.
- If attacker has less troops than defender then gains will be under 100% normal gains to a floor of 80% at 50% troop amount or less.
- If attacher has more troop strength then gains will increase to max of 120% normal land gains at 200% troop strength

TANKS
- Attackers tanks must outnumber defenders tanks in order to gain ghost acres.
- Again oversending increases ghost by 120% for a 200% tank strength.

That would take some major rebalancing of indy production, and a look at how MBR will function.

If you're at it, add in submarines, and make 2 spare slots for when you add aircraft-carriers and astro-vipers.

Or and one of these:
http://www.cracktwo.com/...ed&utm_medium=twitter

koonfasa: you missed the point heh

1) Earth's simplicity that results in complex behaviours is it's strength; additional units are not only bloody difficult to code in, it's also weird to find some balance for them in the game and use

2) minor tweaks within the current framework to make things slightly perturbed and perhaps even more interesting, is not only much more easily implemented, it's also a good way to retain simplicity yet add more complex behaviour

rockman's idea is fantastic

look at three different targets
A H casher with lots of land, no food, little tech, no cash
B D arbitrager small land, high tech, high cash, no food
C F farmer average land, small amount of tech, tons of food

each target would have a different optimized attack squad configuration
you could have an LG country that tailors its force to attack a particular type of target
if the attacker does not want labs he reduces the landgrab from a techer while simultaneously keeping the tech grab high

qz is exactly right, adds complexity for the vets keeps it simple for the newer players
great idea, rockman

hmm

I like it.

Sounds cool. But may get a bit difficult if u ask me

well the average user wouldn't have to know all the nitty-gritty details, but it could be explained somewhere...

It sounds good :)

I did a LONG post in my mobile and before I could finish the bat died :(

In resume this is my Idea

Using the Actual formulas as a base, we could say that a victory would equal 100% of the results, yet by having certain units as predominant in the attack sent the gains would change in a %10

For Example

Troops:
In a army with 100% troops, the attack would have 10% bonus on certain parts

Troops get +10% Buildings, +5% Bushels, +5% Tech and -10% unbuild land.
Jets get +10% unbuild Land, +10% Cash and -10% Buildings.
Tanks get +10% unbuild land, +5% Buildings and -10% Bushels.

The logic behind these silly numbers (that can be changed for balance issues).

Troops are bad on open terrain without cover (hence the need of ditches in WW1) so their ability to occupy it should be limited, urban areas on the other hand should be easily occupied and far less buildings need to be destroyed, also Troops are able to grab some more technology of the nation they invade.

Jets are good to bomb and control the boundaries of a nation, so is easy to keep control of open terrain, however, urban zones are a whole different matter and can't be controlled by planes alone, so the amount of buildings decreases, also the nation would pay hefty "fines" or tax or whatever to stop the air raids, so cash also gets a bonus.

Tanks are good to attack open terrain and are also nice for urban control and battle, so both get a bonus, on the other hand tanks can't enter "farmland" as the terrain is too soft for them, so that gets decreased.


as you can clearly see Tanks would get better LAND returns than the rest, but that is kind of how things work, just remember WW2 :)

lots of time lost, but whatever most of what I wrote is resumed in here :)


How this would work, well in the offence calcs if more than 55% of the attack points come from troops, then is a troop based attack, and so if is jets or tanks...

If no unit has more than 55%, then is a normal attack with no bonus nor penalties :)