Instead of -20% Military Costs like theocrathy, make it have +10% Military Costs. What for? So Fascist is playable once more in solo servers.

They would be able to sell food at 35$. Late jumping would be more balanced by alot.

Offcourse more fascists would PM their food, and so the food prices on public might go up a little on solo server, helping the other farmers.

What y'all think?

I'm not sure that would benefit Fs much since you're also adding 10% to their per turn expenses and 10% to their private market military purchase costs. It would definitely result in Fs having to switch to H to jump to be competitive.

slagpit has said more changes are coming to express

so now is the time for this type of discussion
we have seen for months how the number of people playing Fs is way down
like mortcus apparently many players feel that Fs are either unplayable or a boring play on solo servers.

if respected players like mortcus and dantzig and others push for an updated F, we can probably get more playing gov type diversity

Fs always have to convert to H and then we have problems with people mistiming the conversion
when food prices are down many Fs buy mil tech, that is happening in this current set

what if F's PM regenerated faster than anyone else's?
then Fs would have the same fast close that other gov types do

Mortcus you must mean -10% milcost to give them an extra boost, as it stands now a Fascist Farmer barely holds it's own in Express.

Additional expense would basically sink a fascist farmer to a non-competitive status.

unless what you mean is giving a fascist 90% Military Tech out the gate with an ability to it take to the same or lower level as a Demo. In which case a Fascist Farmer would give a Theo a really good run for it's money.

great idea prima

Fs start with 90% mil tech which means they can sell food on their PM at 34 or 35 and can buy it down further

it gets them out the gate in a hurry
delays cashers entry into the game until such time as the D and R farmers can get food to market
i love this idea

i think mort meant -10%

as dan said +10% would kill a fas

if anything a boost to its production would be better then a decrease in military costs

the oil bonus on express is pretty worthless. most grabbers make their own(well most of it) oil and even then the priv market price caps oil now. there is hardly any killing on express now because its against the spirit of the rules to interact with your allies and ask for help.

Meh. anyway, i've not ever played fasc on express because i don't like playing farmer unless i'm gonna war. even then i would rarely play a fasc if i was farming. would pick tyranny for its returns bonus.

Never liked the fasc as a gov type very much. just seems like a misfit with the rest of the game. if simply using a turn need oil, then a fasc's oil bonus would be beneficial and it might actually fit in better with other strats.

I really dont see why a fasc would be so underpower on the solo servers when they seem to work fine on the non solo servers perhaps people are playing them wrong?

hmmm i think this is new to the game, i always thought when u added military tech u sold bushels cheaper, that must be because i always played theocrathy lol.

Then i guess my new idea would be to just give them 35$ per bushel on pm without altering pm costs. And maybe make them buy oil something like 250?

Ivan

On an alliance server peeps can get away with running a land fat fascist farmer with low def, but on a solo server it would be fish food ;) specifically why the mil buying power was being suggested.

Besides when was the last time you saw a Fascist Farmer take a top 3 position on the alliance server?

I think you are right Mortcus, in old earth buying mil tech would have lowered your PM price for bushels, I like this setup much better.

Not sure about a t3 cause i actually dont netgain that often but i definately see them up there in the t10 every now and then, wasnt too long ago that I ran one myself up there and that was BEFORE the increased bushel prices

Also dont see why a fasc farmer would have to be more land fat then a rep farmer or a demo farmer to make more income and afaik a demo farmer won primary last set

A demo has the ability to bring it's tech to higher levels and has no taxes on sales. Demos can also buy bushels at 38 and resell them at 39 on it's PM. These are all huge advantages for a Demo.

Taking mil tech down to 83% a demo can convert its bushels to military at a much better price point too. So it is not surprising to see a demo farmer take a top 3 position or even win primary. Especially if it was playing the market a little.

don't know on a rep farmer, haven't played one in quite a while, has anyone played one on a solo server into the top 10 ?

A stocking farmer doesnt really need to sell bushels untill its destocking so taxes doesnt come into play there

Also lets not forget the + 15% bushel production fasc farmer has compared to a demo

Fasc max agri is 230%. demo max agri tech is 243%.

fasc has a 2% advantage after tech, assuming both are maxed.

Well depends a bit on the prices if its worth maxing tech out completely or not, in most servers i dont think its

Yeah, but along the same lines the demo has a higher percentage for less points per acre. So any give amount of tech points the demo is going to have the higher percentage. Also, we haven't even taken in to account the market commissions.

I think facism sucks personally. All things considered I think demo is a better farmer. Facism should get another 7 to 10% food production bonus to make it a better strategy choice.

Just as an example a 20k facism farmer with 450k agro tech points is 225%, a demo is 238%.

Hmm I didnt realise that demo also had higher tech effectiveness I thought they just had a higher roof?

thought higher tech eff was commie only, either way I still prefer fasc due to the 2 turn per attack and oil production bonus

Doesnt say anything about their tech effectivity in the help that I can find, so easy fix remove the 10% tech eff bonus they get for free apparently

fluffFF

The tech percentage formula calculates based on max tech, therefore it is basically higher effectiveness. Those are real numbers I posted.

everyone has always dogged fascists. ivan is correct (high five ivan) , most people dont know how to play them. in a tagged server fasc farmer beats all other farmer strats how ever you want to do it. ive stocked 1m+ bushels c/i->fasc farmer, gotten t10 with a fasc farmer, seen many other people get t10 with fasc farmer. did turn by turn comparisons of fasc farmers vs rep farmers(years ago, with no demo as it had its tech nerfed at the time) and fasc won every time. i dont see how a demo could keep up in land with the target selection these days. demo farmer on solo servers might not be to bad. honestly though, farmers in general have sucked since food changed from 42.

oh yea, PM price of bushels@42 would be badass.

PM@42 was ridiculous... farmer completely dominated...

no they didnt =p that was the age of no dominant strat. any set a farmer COULD win. just like a techer or casher could win.

of course i would like to see what would happen with some major changes implemented =)

If the eestats tech calculator (http://www.eestats.com/techcalc) is accurate, a country with 10000 acres and 50000 Ag tech points would have the following tech percentages:

D gov't type: 174.35%
F gov't type: 167.59%

Add in F's 15% food bonus, and the F would really be at 192% of an M's production but would also be incurring 6% market commissions and -24% tax revenue.

D farmer should theoretically dominate F farmer...however, an F farmer scored higher than any other D farmer in Express (although he did do an end-set conversion to H).

I personally think F needs just a little something else. Maybe a slight increase to military strength? +10%

This is precisely why a Demo technically has an advantage ..it can sell on the public market @42 and use it like a PM tax free.

Not really cause if bushels are up by 2 for demos they are up by 2 for the fasc as well, well minus the tax

Anyway unless you have the time to play the market like mad, a well run fasc > a well run demo

fasc has the advantage though because it produces at +15% the entire time as it's ramping up; you don't have max tech immidiately; this gives it a huge early-set bonus, which usually translates into more land if you're grabbing....

qz your statement is qualified with early set land-grabbing, a demo can do this also, the only equalizer when comparing would have to be an all-x. It's like saying a tyr techer is better then a theo techer because it can grab more land.

The 15% bonus drops quickly when you factor in the higher tech and no taxes. A demo with $2-3 ($41-50 bushel prices) advantage while de-stocking 300-400 mil bushels can make an extra billion on the market easily.

another part of this is that a demo can resell on the PM at $38 without having to buy military tech early on, something a fascist cannot do. To make the same $ per bushel a fascist would have to sell bushels on the market @ 41.

So the Demo can buy their military tech later when tech prices have dropped some.

A demo also does not have to buy as much biz/res to match a fascist income which means a demo can maintain positive or much higher cash-flow much easier and for less $ up front.

so a demo can save an extra $400-600 mil in tech just by buying it later or not buying as much. Not to mention the ~200 mil or so it saves on taxes when buying tech and military while ramping up.

------------------------------
if both strats reach 10,000k acres with 3K turns left in the reset, with 0 tech on hand, which one will finish higher?

if they were to cash out the rest of their turns:

How much tech will optimize each one to stock with? How much did each country spend?
Mil/Biz/Res/Agri

How much more tech would be needed by each country if they kept exploring their turns.

As for military;

On alliance figure on a mil or so turrets, and on solo 3-4 mil turrets worth of military. <<< which is why it is different when playing a F on an alliance server. On solo you have to run a high mil or get lucky to finish with a higher net.

All I'm saying is the higher military maintenance cost coupled to the lower income of a fascist is what ultimately gives the demo it's edge.

The demo simply does not spend as much cash to get their stock, and can ultimately sell it at a $2-3 advantage.

i would correct half that crap, but no one seems to think i have any idea of strats, i'll just sit here and laugh at you all

I think it's more about playing style than anything since they're both very close. If I was playing alliance I see two strategy choices.

1) Play facism farmer, keep my nw low and farm untags
2) Play demo farmer and trade land with people around my nw.

keep quiet about the demo tricks will ya, or they'll downgrade it.

I dont see how you can base if a strategy is good or not by saying if they are at 10k acers, all strategies have different advantages and disadvantages

fasc works fine

Prima: yes, if you get to stocking and both have 10kA then sure, demo will win; but if you played Fasc and still have the same as a demo, then you played the start badly

qzjul yes from a straight production value the fascist should have more bushels to destock <<< hopefully I interpreted your statement correctly.

But the demo should have more cash on hand (unless spent to make up the difference in bushels), and will sell them for a higher profit.

For example a demo can use the extra cash flow to buy all bushels @ or below $39 and this would be the same as stocking with no revenue loss. A fascist attempting to buy bushels @ $39 would loose a portion of their cash-out in the exchange unless they could resell those same bushels on the market later @ $44.

when it is all said and done a Demo without trying to make up the bushel difference will have a ~ 2 bil cash advantage, so the fascist needs to have 60 mil bushels extra to break even.

If the Demo used the extra cash and market advantage even a little i.e. 1-2 sales per day it would beat the Fascist hands down.

Helmet you are right:
The 2 strats are very close, but I would still love to see the fascist get a little umph bump ... ;) :p

....

cash is not a big deal, if you're taking about the -pop jazz;

during the start of the game you essentially have +15% production, which should enable you to stay higher during the grabbing phase, getting the better targets with heavier def, thus coming out ahead by stocking on say 30kA instead of 20kA :) that's my theory anyway :)

Might as well say that a demo techer at 10k outearns a demo farmer at 10k easily too then so lets bump up the farmes even more!

all strats have their advantages and disadvantages

Seriously, fascists are badass, and if you can't play a fascist well you need to buff your skills.

as an early set landgrabber yes you are absolutely right, but then we are up against commie's for this land ;) --- Which actually surprised me to see how well commies are doing in the express resets.




granted the strats have their pro 7 cons, but i wouldn't go as far comparing techer to farmer two completely different commodities ;p





shush I'm working overtime here to makem even more "badass" :p

I still say a fascist is missing the little umph bump other govs have that enable them to place Top 3 consistently. There are the exception resets where market condition enable them to do really well ;) For example the low tech prices in express this reset, would have been good for a fascist.

If you time it right, supplement your farms with some rigs, sell oil to play turns/buy tech and stock food, fascist farmer/oiler on alliance is consistently a very good strat.

Yeah but like it has been said, its not on alliance fascists suck, its on solo servers. On alliance bushel prices stick above 55 for a month, in express its 39-42. And for quick income to not be farmed you need to pm it most times, so 32. Fascists can only afford deffense at the beginning, everyone knows that. So the only viable strategy right now with a fascist is all ex 100% def for a strat that need you to be fatter than everybody you cant even grab.

In short. Your wrong.

Look at the stats. Have a try of fasc for a few sets to get experience. And you will see it works perfectly fine.

And yes i play fasc farmer about 90% of the time.

Drinks my country was squiggles #20 in the last express reset it was the top Fascist out of the 3 that went T10. Like yours it was also an All-X ;)

I also play Fascist 90% of the time.

I have yet to take a top 3 position with a Fascist though. I would definitely like to see someone do this consistently on a solo server without flipping over to a theo to destock before telling me I'm wrong :)

BTW conditions were optimal for a fascist in the last express reset with tech consistently under the 2K sales point.

Why shouldnt people flip over to a theo to destock?! anything else is pretty much insane

Also I was once told that a dict couldnt make it into the t10 on express server so I tried a bit half arsed and i think i finished 12 with a dict farmer and thats with jumping as a dict as well

I still believe that all strats can make it into t10 on all servers if played right and actually trying and destocking as anything but a theo or a demo is just silly and doesnt really have anything to do with how good a fasc farmer is or isnt