Verified:

Pang

Administrator
Game Development
5715

Feb 8th 2020, 3:30:20

Hi!

For the start of the next round of each server (and for the current FFA round), the following changes will be applied:


- Building returns from all SPECIAL attacks (BR + AB) are based on 10% of attacker's total built acres, not 10% of each specific building. This should mean that any country that has built the majority of its land will get regular returns for buildings.
- Restart bonus is re-enabled with the following changes:
- Number of defends before dying no longer has any impact on the restart aid calculation
- All restarts will receive 25% of their original country's resources at the time of death as the base calculation for resources to restore on the restart, rather than up to 95%
- All restart will receive 50% of their original country's resources on the market at the time of death, rather than up to 95%
- Turns, bonus points, etc will be counted the same way as before
- When looking up a restart country in-game through the country search, the original country # will be available on the search results page


We'll look at updating more stuff around the restart bonus and perhaps allowing countries to send a higher % of goods to restart countries via foreign aid. But for now, look for these new changes to take effect in the new rounds!

Thanks to everyone for their feedback on our changes from Changeset 18!

Cheers,
-=Pang=-
Earth Empires Staff
pangaea [at] earthempires [dot] com

Boxcar - Earth Empires Clan & Alliance Hosting
http://www.boxcarhosting.com

Ratski

Member
713

Feb 8th 2020, 4:33:19

When are you guy's going to set spy to spy so we don't have to hit the drop down menu, to spy ? On all servers would be nice.

Rokkie

Member
405

Feb 8th 2020, 8:19:12

Originally posted by Ratski:
When are you guy's going to set spy to spy so we don't have to hit the drop down menu, to spy ? On all servers would be nice.


Yeah having 'Spy' by default would be a nice QoL change please.

Pang

Administrator
Game Development
5715

Feb 8th 2020, 13:17:18

That's a good idea. I added that now -- ops will default to Spy now.
-=Pang=-
Earth Empires Staff
pangaea [at] earthempires [dot] com

Boxcar - Earth Empires Clan & Alliance Hosting
http://www.boxcarhosting.com

Crippler ICD

Member
3551

Feb 8th 2020, 17:49:03

bah can't delete all messages in ffa :P lol
Crippler
FoCuS
<--MSN
58653353
CripplerTD

[14:26] <enshula> i cant believe im going to say this
[14:26] <enshula> crippler is giving us correct netting advice

Marshal

Member
32,589

Feb 8th 2020, 20:08:32

Originally posted by Crippler ICD:
bah can't delete all messages in ffa :P lol


you can by going country by country if it's dev mass msg.
Patience: Yep, I'm with ELK and Marshal.

ELKronos: Patty is more hairy.

Gallery: K at least I am to my expectations now.

LadyGrizz boobies is fine

NOW3P: Morwen is a much harsher mistress than boredom....

enshula

Member
EE Patron
2315

Feb 9th 2020, 10:46:21

- Building returns from all attacks are based on 10% of attacker's total built acres, not 10% of each specific building. This should mean that any country that has built the majority of its land will get regular returns for buildings.

this was your original proposal and i can understand if you want to leave in some building requirement on grabbing

but it impacts different strats in different ways you can grab 4.3% of what you have only

so early set it has a much bigger impact than late, and it also had a much bigger impact on techer

techer>casher>oiler>indy>farner

was probably the impact due to relative $/acres and tech requirements

what i think you did is when you wrote the code you put in the 10% requirement then you multiplied it by .43 which is the standard ghost buildings amount to get 4.3%

so it was already about 2.5x harsher for grabbing than BR/AB

cant it just be a flat you can get 10% of the buildings you have rather than 4.3%?

(i think currently dicts would get 5.7319% with the bonus, but dont remember for certain so maybe you dont want to allow them to get 13.333%, you could set it so they only required 7.5% land for max rather than 10 though, seems like a more relevant bonus)

needing up to about 12k offstrat buildings last reset felt silly, and that was a set with pretty historically low average grab sizes too

enshula

Member
EE Patron
2315

Feb 9th 2020, 10:50:40

for a max grab of 10% of your land to get max buildings you need 23.2558%

of the buildings to be the same as your target if your grabbing an offstrat country

this has implications on retals as well

not that theres all that many on tag servers now

but for solo servers if someone hits you for a max grab you may be unable to get max buildings back

Gerdler

Member
3786

Feb 9th 2020, 10:55:12

Just make the limitation 23.25% of specific buildings for SS/PS, then the dict will have the advantage its supposed to have and all others will get 10% like they are supposed to.

No fansy stuff. Just change .1 to .2325 for SS/PS. Takes seconds.

enshula

Member
EE Patron
2315

Feb 9th 2020, 11:04:53

btw, not sure if team and primary are deliberately on the old change set or not

team/primary 17
alliance/tourney/express 18
ffa 19

patriottawnn

Member
464

Feb 10th 2020, 3:45:04

yo, seeing a message ingame from u was scary; i thought it was a scam and i didnt copy/paste that link.

u should have special colors, tag, or something when doing ingame messaging from admins etc. so we know its legit and it doesn't look like any other country.

<---almost got scammed out of 25k once in rl

Pang

Administrator
Game Development
5715

Feb 10th 2020, 4:25:34

ya, that's a good idea

yikes for almost getting scammed -- glad it was *almost*!
-=Pang=-
Earth Empires Staff
pangaea [at] earthempires [dot] com

Boxcar - Earth Empires Clan & Alliance Hosting
http://www.boxcarhosting.com

Pang

Administrator
Game Development
5715

Feb 10th 2020, 4:27:24

Originally posted by enshula:
btw, not sure if team and primary are deliberately on the old change set or not

team/primary 17
alliance/tourney/express 18
ffa 19


Everything will get Changeset #19 when the rounds start. Alliance, Team and Express were just changed over now that their rounds have ended.

Primary and Tourney will change over when their respective rounds end.
-=Pang=-
Earth Empires Staff
pangaea [at] earthempires [dot] com

Boxcar - Earth Empires Clan & Alliance Hosting
http://www.boxcarhosting.com

DruncK

Member
2019

Feb 15th 2020, 4:02:46

Can you pin these rules when you create a country. Say what changeset it is too(19 this time obviously)

Will be helpful for the poor lost soul on the internet who stumbles his way into this dark and smelly alleyway

allbymyself87

Member
477

Feb 28th 2020, 3:38:35

[quote poster=Pang; 48510; 931880]Hi!

For the start of the next round of each server (and for the current FFA round), the following changes will be applied:


- Building returns from all SPECIAL attacks (BR + AB) are based on 10% of attacker's total built acres, not 10% of each specific building. This should mean that any country that has built the majority of its land will get regular returns for buildings.
- Restart bonus is re-enabled with the following changes:
- Number of defends before dying no longer has any impact on the restart aid calculation
- All restarts will receive 25% of their original country's resources at the time of death as the base calculation for resources to restore on the restart, rather than up to 95%
- All restart will receive 50% of their original country's resources on the market at the time of death, rather than up to 95%
- Turns, bonus points, etc will be counted the same way as before
- When looking up a restart country in-game through the country search, the original country # will be available on the search results page


We'll look at updating more stuff around the restart bonus and perhaps allowing countries to send a higher % of goods to restart countries via foreign aid. But for now, look for these new changes to take effect in the new rounds!

Thanks to everyone for their feedback on our changes from Changeset 18!

Cheers,
[/quote]

What is the oop turn for restart?
Is it still at turn 16th?

ironxxx

Member
EE Patron
970

Feb 28th 2020, 11:18:05

Yep

Molotov

Member
EE Patron
256

Jun 21st 2020, 20:40:30

How is this change set working out, everybody?

Primary is still mercifully on change set 17 (thank you)

Tournament is stuck on 18 and it sucks, big countries can't even AB or BR the small spy fluff countries if they're running a different building strategy. You can be 4x their size and have no way to hurt them.

Wondering about the future

Edited By: Molotov on Jun 22nd 2020, 1:16:50

enshula

Member
EE Patron
2315

Jun 21st 2020, 21:13:48

that seems unfortunate

maybe theres a way to queue up rule changes for next set so it requires less manual intervention

Bug

Developer
EE Patron
1053

Jun 21st 2020, 21:25:53

Yes there is, but the decision was to leave some servers on differing chansets for a reason.

Gerdler

Member
3786

Jun 21st 2020, 23:26:08

18 is a pretty bad changeset. tourney would do well on either 19 or 17 so ppl can wage war with one another.

All the others are better on 19 than 17 I think. You could debate about express I guess.

Bug

Developer
EE Patron
1053

Jun 22nd 2020, 0:04:03

I think the idea was that bot servers should have the grab changes and thus limit the available land per strat so they are on 19, and the others are still on 17.

Molotov

Member
EE Patron
256

Jun 22nd 2020, 1:16:31

I think that makes sense Bug. Means Tourney should go back to 17 (if not to 19).

KoHeartsGPA

Member
EE Patron
24,434

Jun 22nd 2020, 1:36:02

All servers aren't same, so if coding was changed to better gameplay in bot servers, then it shouldn't have ever been implemented in non bot servers 🤷
Mess with me you better kill me, or I'll just take your pride & joy and jack it up
(•_•)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6VRMGTwU4I
-=TSO~DKnights~XI~LaF=-

S.F. Giants 2010, 2012, 2014 World Series Champions, fluff YEAH!

Bug

Developer
EE Patron
1053

Jun 22nd 2020, 2:56:22

Originally posted by KoHeartsGPA:
All servers aren't same, so if coding was changed to better gameplay in bot servers, then it shouldn't have ever been implemented in non bot servers 🤷


"better gameplay"

Actually it makes it a ton harder to play on bot servers, because you have to grab on like building type.

If you want to discuss this further with me personally I'm on IRC or discord all the time KoH.

Bug

Developer
EE Patron
1053

Jun 22nd 2020, 2:58:24

BTW: I looked and we will rectify this changeset error at the end of the reset for Tourney.

Molotov

Member
EE Patron
256

Jun 22nd 2020, 13:29:06

Thanks man!

Gerdler

Member
3786

Jun 22nd 2020, 13:36:48

Originally posted by Bug:
I think the idea was that bot servers should have the grab changes and thus limit the available land per strat so they are on 19, and the others are still on 17.

It was not because of that at all. thats a side effect. He needed to do something to curb suicides so he did it by removing the ability to grab 500k acres from one tag with a fluffty 15k acre techer that had been stocking for 3 weeks because it doesn't make sense that Monaco declares war on Nato and makes them all 3rd world countries in 30 minutes.

I wanted clan GDI to stop this but the war tags didnt want that so Pang compromised restart rates, grabbing returns and AB/BR returns with these limits to reduce the incidence and damage of those suicides instead.

It's not ideal imo that servers run on different formulas. Thats why I favored the clan GDI solution and still do.

Molotov

Member
EE Patron
256

Jun 22nd 2020, 14:05:46

I don't know... it may/may not make sense to split Alliance (and FFA?) onto a different ruleset eventually. Square peg round hole situation trying to force games with completely different dynamics into the same rules.

Gerdler

Member
3786

Jun 22nd 2020, 15:00:31

Well we have GDI that is different on express and primary. So apart from grabbing in FFA which has been different than all other servers since forever all the formulas were the same on all servers til changeset 17.
I mean that GDI could be set up in 1a to counter the supercharged suicides there which would be better than changing all servers grabbing formulas to counter 1 servers problems.

That said the way the grabbing formulas were changed it also solved topfeeding on team and express which is quite nice really. Thats more of a side effect than the intended effect and some people are as annoyed with that as I am happy with it as far as I can tell.

enshula

Member
EE Patron
2315

Jun 27th 2020, 10:53:38

primary 17 - no bots
tournament 18 - no bots
express 19 - bots
team 19 - no bots
alliance 19 - bots
ffa 19 - 2k bots

with ffa having no min jets

so from that team is an outlier having no bots and 19 if only bot servers are supposed to be on 19

KoHeartsGPA

Member
EE Patron
24,434

Jul 1st 2020, 2:52:06

We should have a non bot express server, I miss the good old days.
Mess with me you better kill me, or I'll just take your pride & joy and jack it up
(•_•)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6VRMGTwU4I
-=TSO~DKnights~XI~LaF=-

S.F. Giants 2010, 2012, 2014 World Series Champions, fluff YEAH!

UgolinoII

Member
EE Patron
1018

Jul 1st 2020, 12:25:18

Can anyone tell me what changeset alpha is on?

enshula

Member
EE Patron
2315

Jul 1st 2020, 12:36:01

https://www.earthempires.com/alpha/serverdetails
https://www.earthempires.com/alphaffa/serverdetails

19 for both
but theres some inconsistencies between them

ps: alpha 20h alphaff 2.777h
humies: alpha 12 alphaffa 255

for example, none of the others would really matter

Bug

Developer
EE Patron
1053

Jul 1st 2020, 13:24:47

KoH: there would only be how many players for that reset?

Gerdler

Member
3786

Jul 1st 2020, 14:23:25

When changeset 18 and 19 was announced it was planned to be on all servers afaik. Changeset 18 needed fixes to the ABs and BRs and that changeset should be no-where. the only reason primary was left out was because Pang forgot to change it initially and then we the players suggested it stay on 17, which has been done for now and is great.

Either way my point is that changeset 18 and 19 are meant 100% to curb suicides. The other effects it has are side-effects, like for instance making grabbing strange, or curing topfeeds. Some of these side effects might seem positive to some people in some instances, like when you get blantantly topfed and can still get back 100-120% of the land in 1 hit in tournament.
On bot servers Changeset 19 makes grabbing more complex and interesting in a way, even tho its counterintuitive, it is interesting at least. It was not the purpose tho.

Edited By: Gerdler on Jul 1st 2020, 14:26:35

Requiem

Member
EE Patron
7101

Jul 1st 2020, 14:49:05

I don’t care for it on bot servers only because it promotes running semi-rainbow which hurts techers the most.

I think a more elegant fix should be implemented.

KoHeartsGPA

Member
EE Patron
24,434

Jul 1st 2020, 15:16:02

Originally posted by Bug:
KoH: there would only be how many players for that reset?


I think, no, I'm pretty sure you're wrong, do you have any idea on how many people left when bots got introduced to express?, I was a regular player in that server back then.
Mess with me you better kill me, or I'll just take your pride & joy and jack it up
(•_•)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6VRMGTwU4I
-=TSO~DKnights~XI~LaF=-

S.F. Giants 2010, 2012, 2014 World Series Champions, fluff YEAH!

Gerdler

Member
3786

Jul 1st 2020, 15:57:16

Originally posted by Requiem:
I don’t care for it on bot servers only because it promotes running semi-rainbow which hurts techers the most.

I think a more elegant fix should be implemented.

I think techers are fine. War tag players have techer as their core and that is the main reason netters can't run a lot of them.
If grabbing was made a lot more difficult fewer would play it and the tech prices would rise. We are not seeing that, and Im pretty sure a decent techer could still challenge for the win every other set or so when the market permits. It's just that no one good has played techer since Changeset 18&19 was implemented.

Requiem

Member
EE Patron
7101

Jul 1st 2020, 18:10:06

In that case I blame SoF then!

UgolinoII

Member
EE Patron
1018

Jul 1st 2020, 22:36:41

Originally posted by enshula:
https://www.earthempires.com/alpha/serverdetails
https://www.earthempires.com/alphaffa/serverdetails

19 for both
but theres some inconsistencies between them

ps: alpha 20h alphaff 2.777h
humies: alpha 12 alphaffa 255

for example, none of the others would really matter


thanks!

Molotov

Member
EE Patron
256

Jul 10th 2020, 16:10:47

Originally posted by Bug:
BTW: I looked and we will rectify this changeset error at the end of the reset for Tourney.

Server details still says 18

Mr Gainsboro

Member
EE Patron
1118

Jul 24th 2020, 17:26:48

Originally posted by Pang:
That's a good idea. I added that now -- ops will default to Spy now.


Thanks :-)
Don of LaF