Please show me a single attack from the country "Fern Gully" that would have called for someone to kill the country... Is this really what earth has degenerated into ??

I suppose farming the country wasn't good enough...

Ask Rage. Why were you playing the alliance game basically untagged?

Just bored and wanted to see how far the country could go ... is the server really that paranoid ???

can't find it on EE stats... i'm guessing an errant uncontrolled missile or offending spy ops.

whether you guys think it is acceptable or not because its the alliance server, we're never going to grow as long as this fluff carries on.

This instance may not have been a new player, but the next one and the one after could very well be. Stop with the "well they should find a tag" rhetoric and change your policies.

Whats more important to you guys? Your idea of what the alliance server should be, which is stagnant and shrinking under the ridiculous policies. Or the growth and longevity of the game in general?

And yes, that is what it comes down to, so quit fluff footing around it and start giving some of these untaggeds a chance.

war alliances don't need justification to farm/kill untaggeds, but if a netting clan so much as touches an untagged, they are killing the game -- at least according to those who shouted the most on AT last last set.

this server is turning into a trash server pretty quickly now... after a slowed decline over the last year

makes me wonder why we rushed to get this server up so quickly when everyone just treats it like crap :p

lol ... Dibs since i was the one who played the country I can tell you I had 0 spies ... and did not launch any missiles... no offensive action of any kind came from that country.

My only conclusion is extreme paranoia coming from players who feared that some netter was going to suicide them. Never have suicided in almost 8 years of playing earth... but then maybe the rules have changed and anything goes now.

I respect our new, active admins enough to have given up my old habits of multi's and untagged killers before moving to EE.

Maybe its time everyone running untaggeds off the servers gave up their game destroying habits aswell.

RAGE could in theory have a good reason, though I don't see what it could be. The country wasn't very threatening and indeed didn't have any spies.

Dave i played pretty much untagged knowing I would be a land farm there was no delusion on my part. Earth has been that way for a very long while now. There was a time when players had pride in their countries and would hit countries either bigger then themselves or a country almost at the same net-worth. But those days have long since passed us. What they teach the noobs these days is to bottomfeed and think a 26-50k acre country bottom-feeding is some great achievement of prowess.

I used to love earth because you get the posts about some topfeed for 10K acres... that took guts, skill and know how. Farming a country for 10 acres a hit takes absolutely no skill. No better then playing sims. JMHO

This is a Hobbesian state of nature. Might makes right, and whatever you have the ability to do, it is your right to do. There is no powerful force in the game attempting to force an arbitrary idea of fairness upon others. The most powerful alliance in the game decided to topfeed alliances while they were still under the protection of a war-DNH from those alliances. Their justification appears to be that the war-DNH was only given out of fear, not of fairness, so that they are in no way obligated to be fair to those who were fair to them.

Since there are players who play as untagged contrary to the 'best interests' of their country, and there are alliances that enjoy getting killed (specifically imaginary numbers), it is clear that countries in this game lack the self-preservation instinct and desire to thrive that countries and people have in the real world. Without this self-preservation instinct or the desire to meet traditional ideas of success, we find this anarchistic atmosphere to be especially lethal.

Until players and alliances see the continuation of the game as a primary goal, then the game will continue to be subjected to efforts by players and alliances which work towards the decrease of the player base of this game and will lead to its demise.

I think my post is sufficiently long and wordy that no one is reading it anymore, so I can say something inflammatory like "Pang is gay" and no one will even read it. But to prevent people from just reading the last few sentences and realizing the shocking revelation I have just uttered, I must now return to the previous topic.

Might makes right, and there is no morality in this game. If you wish to claim a morality for yourself, then you are in a minority here. Most players make no thought to morality and merely play as their alliances dictates they should. They farm not because they view it as moral, but because they've been taught that farming untaggeds is a necessary evil. And when some untaggeds fight back, alliances kill off all of them. Because this is an alliance based game, the alliance holds responsibility for the actions of any of its members, and unfortunately, untagged countries are forced to take responsibility for the actions of other unrelated untagged countries.

Despite this being an alliance server, we don't seem to have permitted retalling an alliance for a grab, merely retalling the country from that alliance. In Utopia's top kingdoms (back when I played Utopia 6-8ish years ago), retaliation was done kingdom to kingdom, not province to province, and that method was good for the game. It would be interesting to see an alliance try alliance:alliance retals instead of country:country retals.

If you wish to play as an untagged, you must realize that you can and will be killed at any time without provocation. But you also have the right to grab any alliance you wish. Since you know that playing as an untagged, that you will not survive the whole reset, then you're self preservation instinct cannot kick in, and thus, you have no reason not to farm/maim a targetted alliance aside from waiting until you have a stronger ability to do harm to whichever enemies you have.

I'm not sure how hitting a country with a lot of acres requires skill.

oh, ahh, well, http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0104254/ must've reminded them too much of Utopia.

slagpit, if it does not take guts and skill then why don't we see more of it ??? ... sorry I forgot to add and actually hold onto those acres i.e. bounce the retals ;)

Because it takes the willingness to piss off the leaders of your own alliance and to risk the netting sets of everyone in your alliance due to your own selfishness. But if you're in a war alliance that's looking for a fight, then it will happen a lot more often.

lol maybe ... but then I never played Utopia so really would not know :)

I don't see a single attack by the country Fern Gully. Seems very odd RAGE would kill it...

omg ... really c'mon what happen to the warrior spirit of this game ... do alliances these days really get their panties up in a bunch when someone does a legit land-grab?

It's foolish to grab an alliance and to believe that 1:1 retals should protect you. It is okay to grab an alliance and to believe that turrets should protect you. Unfortunately, its way too easy to break someone, so the practice of midfeeding has mostly disappeared from the server.

There is nothing inherently 'fair' about 1:1 retals, land:land retals, country:country retals, or alliance:alliance retals. It is all a preference of whatever benefits your own alliance the most, and whether you have the warring ability and willingness to enforce that policy.

Well Anoniem is going to be pissed

granted rockman I know it is not wise to topfeed but mid-feeding and holding your own against the retals shouldn't be that big a deal.

Have the formulas changed that much that the attacker has that much of an advantage? If so then war-clans must be having a field day...

lol... so it was Anoniem hitting me, I remember when Mr. Gainsboro used to try to recruit me for Sanct ... I'm guessing he went back to RD.

edit;
lol just looked up Mr. Gainsboro ... he's in LaF... what is this world coming to. ... nice choice though.

Don't play stupid about Anoniem. He's your University buddy.

lol ... zonk ... wrong ... though we did play earth together for a few set in Poetic Justice :o

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7pOQZwDSRXQ

I think if sol still thinks they are the moral police of the server they should step in and kill whichever rage country did the first hit or most hits to show that that fluff cant stand.

Dragonlance likes fluffing at other people but this cant be justified.

not worth it besides as an x-Valkyrie I wouldn't want a Rage country killed over some puny untagged country I was messing around with in my spare time :p -- As a Valk I more then know the dangers of playing untagged... though I do not recall them ever killing a country that did not attack them first.

I think it'd be damned interesting to restrict the size of countries you can pick on for land, and to remove landgrabs from war ops. If you have to (skillfully) target larger countries for land, and if you can't get land by declaring war, the game would be a whole different experience.

And, as I've said for years, it'd be nice if alliance-wide retals and land:land went out the window for a while as well. Try it and see what happens. :p

That sounds more Melian than Hobbesian to me. :P

Not what he said ingame.

You would see more guys hit for land then triple their NW. That's already a shady tactic, it would be more widespread if what you said were to happen.

Rockman makes a great philospher:)

I speak truth. Right, Pang?

There was one thing in there I didn't agree with, but other than that it was pretty dead on. :) :p

Well as I was one of the Rage countries killing you so I will say this;

You were posted up as a kill target, so I hit you. I did not know why, I didn't ask, however I assumed you were like the other 10 or so untagged suiciders we had had this set.

Was nothing personal of course but I am sure you see it as somewhat personal. Due to the fact we have been peppered since coming oop people have kept an eye out for potential suiciders as well as actual.

Collateral damage is such a crude term in this instance but what can you do... I personally hate what some alliance may or may not do to prep an alliance for war, this set is a prime example, however this is the game we play so I will suck it up and take my medicine.

Prima, it is a shame a non threatening country was killed, however I can't say the higher ups did the wrong thing nominating you as it was the right thing to do more than once this set already. We had hit a few that immediately tagged when they found their game was up.

killing someone who never did anything is never right Vinag.

yep L;L and if someone wants Alliance wide retals then make it so the country hit can retal on any country in the offending alliance. Otherwise just leave it at 1v1. While i do understand the concept of joining an alliance for protection, i.e. allowing another player to take your retal. I do believe that the country hit being an innocent country should have the choice of hitting any country of their choice i.e one innocent country for another innocent country. Talk about your alliance mates being really upset with you for hitting another alliance as their countries potentially go into the cross-hairs.

I also agree the 1/12 size is way too big of a gap, perhaps limiting the grabs an untagged can do even under war ops i.e they can only hit countries 50% their size. Likewise only countries 50% their size can hit them would keep things fair. If a country tags up they must be in an alliance with more then 3 members to break out of this protective shell. All bets are off (i.e. they lose their protective shell) if an untagged (or mini-alliance) country attacks with anything other then a land-grab.

This would at least allow a small alliance to grow on the server without getting farmed by countries 10 times their size.

The downside is it could be used by alliances to protect their restarts but it would definitely make for some interesting wars.

waits for Anoniem to confirm such a wild and speculative accusation ...;p ... Maybe Anoniem can negotiate my ability to agree to such a story for free land-grabs on his country :D Or maybe Thomas's country will be offered in our negotiations hmmm now that would be interesting ;D

/me wonders if Pang and Rockman should debate the one thing for the sake of accuracy of course :p

No prob Vinag, I rarely give a damn about my country these days anyway, it just surprised me that I made the kill list... meh these things happen.

There are ways though to protect netters from suiciders and keep untagged or mini alliance protected or at least more fair for all involved.

then up the attack % strength of the country hit i.e. make it so the countries that were land-grabbed can click on a retal button(available for 72 hours) and their attack strength is adjusted to make the retal possible. Just like in nature a baby rattlesnake is a lot more venomous then their full grown counterparts. Could be applied to mini-alliances or untags too as a differential equalizer so countries that hit countries 1/10 their size need to be careful (i.e. no more free rides at the expense of new players). If the defending country clicks on the retal button the differential equalizer kicks in and they could potentially use it to top-feed 1:1 for each land-grab they sustained.

I would hardly call this a netting set. We figurned our number was up this set and it was certainly a good call.

Vinag is heavil;y intox, please pay no mind to him =P

Rockman's post makes me want to start an alliance with him lol.. good points..

You don't even run the one you're in charge of now!

What better idea than get someone else to run a new one for me!

we already got one going:
http://www.lafamiglia.org

One without all that fake mafia garbage ;)

Thomas:

I didn't know the untagged guy was Prima, though coincidentally, it does appear to be true that we did play in Poetic Justice together years ago. I go to King's College London and I'm English.

Now that we have that cleared up, give it a rest.

If you are Sicilian you will understand the following :)

legge d'honore e di omerta, terra di sangue e damore, bruciatta dal sole.

---------------

U Malantrinu

Ju sugnu 'nomu troppu malantrinu
e sugnu 'ntisu 'ntra lu me quarteri,
li cosi cchiù segreti e cchiù 'mpurtanti
di sutta li me manu hannu a passari.

Li fimmini cchiù beddi ddo paisi
di mia su pazzamenti 'nnamurati
e ju ccu tutti mi cci fazzu zitu
e passu tempu tutti li jurnati.

Me matri già mi fici malantrinu
Turiddu spaccatuttu ju mi chiamu,
ccu mia non ci pò mancu a jttatura
e non mi scantu no di la lupara.

Ccu mia daveru picca s'à parrari
'm'atà capiri ccu na taliata
e 'nzoccu dicu ju prestu s'à fari
sannunca spattu a tutti timbulati.

Mi chiamunu Turiddu mafiusu
na musca non mi passa ppi lu nasu
e quannu vogghiu sugnu priputenti
amara a ccu m'accapita davanti

Ma quannu parru ccu na picciuttedda
e specialmenti quannu mi piaci
diventu bonu e duci 'ndo parrari
e a fazzu prestu prestu 'nammurari.

Me matri già mi fici malantrinu
Turiddu spaccatuttu ju mi chiamu,
ccu mia non ci pò mancu a jttatura
e non mi scantu no di la lupara.

Ccu mia daveru picca s'à parrari
'm'atà capiri ccu na taliata
e 'nzoccu dicu ju prestu s'à fari
sannunca spattu a tutti timbulati.


http://www.tradizionipopolariaulos.com/testo_malantrinu.php

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yx8kWTiOykQ

Grew up listening to this one of my personal favorites ...

-----------------------

On a technical term you are right the Mafia no longer exists, it's all Associations now... for example: The Association For the Arts and Culture of Sicily ;)

darn it you were supposed to negotiate free land from Thomas's country for me :p Now I have a dead country my well thought out plot to get Thomas's land went out the window and Evo end's up with all my land ... so close and you fold on me, oh the dilemma.

Now I have to find a new HFA that will negotiate for me ;p