Can a leader in LaF get a hold of WOF.

Please talk with Kill4Free or myself.

IRC

Server: irc.scourge.se

channel: #wofchat

can also find us both in #nbk on gamesurge

i found you already ;)

+1

Curious LaF, do you plan for extended FA hours when you guys do the systematic farming thing?

:( i don't know what my members are doing to me recently when i have 80+ hour work weeks

its like they should find a more quiet work week for me to cause all sorts of FA headaches ;)

Balin's formula he posted in our forums sums up the situation exactly:

Step 1 - Laf systematically farms us
Step 2 - We retaliate
Step 3 - Laf whines and we end up pacting them under the auspices of 'improving relationship'
Step 4 - Pact expires
repeat

So I guess we're back at Step 1 this set?

You guys did the first grab this set ;) And how is it any different from the mass grabbing you have going on with other groups like evo. Where you grab them and they hit you twice for 85%+ of their land and then once more for good measure and you take it. (to tan not WoF)

PDM has grabbed Evo 11 times all round.
LaF has grabbed PDM 14 times in two days.

Big difference.

meh evo has hit you 21 times which is 10 more then you hit them and laf has hit 17 which is 14 more. Too lazy to figure stuff out but I do seem to remember you guys saying you were promoting grabbing or whatever. But not my issue. I'd assume you are mad due to an issue retalling some of the bigger ones or something?
But yah I'll drop the topic :P gl

We at WoF are happy as long as no RoR's or Doubletaps :)

if I single tap can you not retal to be nice? :P Its kinda like you are the new guy right...new guys want to be nice... ;)

I like being nice, I decided only to do 1:1 retals for the doubletap on us :P

bah well then I was hoping for really nice :P If I won because of all that land you could claim 1/4 of the prize!

Looks like I'll have to get in touch with you as well hanlong.

I find it funny tags decided to start grabbing us now that they know we're in an arranged war and preparing for it. As if we won't remember this next set.

Gee whiz, I just don't know what the Laf members are up to, by golly! What a strange coincidence that a half-dozen Laf members pumped defense and massively farmed the server's smaller clans in the same 3-day period!

Now, I'm far too lazy to draw any conclusions from the stats I just looked up, but I assume there's maybe like, some problem in retalling 14 hits by top 20 countries in 24 hours? IDK, my head is spinning! Good thing this doesn't happen every time Laf nets!

In the words of the great Solid Snake, "meh heh"

We seem to go through this debate every time LaF nets too, except last reset when LaF decided to try the "other way" and pacted out and went all XP.

Not only did we not perform up to expectations, but we took public mockery over it.

So, is it really that hard to imagine why we would go back to "tried, tested, and true" methods?

Also, I thought everyone wanted to do more land trading this reset?

Im a big fan of getting land :D

i didnt want more land trading :P

Is it not an acceptable option to not pact out, continue to grab, but maybe refrain from the systematic farming of small clans?

Like, I get the shock and awe strategy and don't disagree that it's a great way to catapult your countries into stocking mode while minimizing the retal window, but 14 hits in 24 hours on one alliance (PDM - didn't tally up the hits on ICN and WoF) does not promote land trading. It's called bullying, right?

I had to pass up one retal cause one of em got nuked and chemed and AB'ed :(

The small alliances on the server?

LaF has 43 members. We have a few grabbing aggressively.

We are/were grabbing:

ICN-36 members
Evo-52 members more than us!
PDM-28 members
Collab-39 members
WoF-20 members

The only alliance that is small enough for it to be bullying is WoF and not only are they the only ones not complaining, they're enjoying the exchanges!!

Btw most of the alliances started grabbing LaF first. Evo topfed me earlier this set and I haven't grabbed them once. The only hit I've made on FIRE is a retal also.

only because you couldn't compete with Omega who used the same all-x methods h4 ;-)

^i'm glad that people think so highly of us, that we're expected to beat others at their own game, on our first attempt with it.

i admit, it is a little different to farming people, then getting IX to protect you from those people and their allies, then bailing on them mid-server war which was the old LaF method of business ;-) ;-)

so easy to rile up!!

they took the busiest work weeks that i'm getting in recent memory to really add the load to LaF's head FR :P

i apologize in advance, but i'm trying to work the rounds and talk to people.

but i don't think LaF enjoys getting mocked for not running all-x as good as evo. i am the first to admit that evo runs all-x better because LaFfers (as you have noticed) do not like hitting that explore button, but the SS/PS button instead.

i disagree with the systematic farming and i don't think it is good though, because it obviously makes people not happy.

and i want to work with everyone to find the balance between acceptable land exchanges where everyone is happy.

i blame myself for having a high workload making it hard for me to iron everything out before it got out of hand (i was really babysitting the news last reset and beginning of this reset until the RL work load really overwhelmed me recently). and for that i apologize. i promise after we figure it out, we can find the happy medium where everyone can gain acres off ghost acres (which is the new trend right?) instead of exploring all day or farming the same 5 untags who are in range.

a few things tho: we did not intiate grabs to some of the alliances here. and i do find it refreshing that the smallest of the bunch (WoF) is the one that enjoys it the most. maybe they see it as an exciting way other than exploring and just farming helpless untags to gain land.

i'm personally old school though, i don't like the idea of land trading. but everyone seems to be going that direction, and i'm not one to fight against the grain, i'm merely here to make sure it is done in a civil manner where everyone feels happy for the betterment of the server.

with that said, try to find enshula since he is the Don, and he is fervent about landtrading and getting it to work correctly where everyone is happy (and he's a very neutral and fair Don as well as very very pure mathetimatical, so he will probably find a way to make it work for everyone), and he has more time recently that i do =)

P.S. i talked to the members who did the grabs, but the gist i got was if your alliance grabbed us first unprovoked, they took it as you guys wanting to land exchange. i did reprimand them for going a little bit overboard, but if land exchanging with LaF was frowned upon, don't give them the idea by grabbing them first.

i know enshula was talking about some "opt in/opt out" list of landtrading, so only the people who want to landtrade would get/recieve hits. i find it quite civil and fair, and i really suggest you guys talking to him so you guys can iron that out and try some new method that i think will make everyone happy (since you could always opt out) he even had a pretty open idea of setting a limit per hits per countries of the ones that opted in so no one got farmed too hard past his enjoyment, etc. etc. like i said he is really into landtrading and is trying very hard to make it fair/fun for all.

but its too strange for my old school blood, so i'm going to leave it to him to work it out with you guys ;P

meh DL last set it was because of the simple fact that most of Lafs top netters like to landgrab and those that like to bottomfeed seemed to disapear for a couple weeks last set(PHX I think did?)

But you are just trying to get some laffer(LT perhaps) mad so I guess my reply is pointless :P

Omega does great at what they do though you are right there :)

I'll take Tarnava's point that I shouldn't have made a blanket statement about Laf farming "the small alliances on the server."

As far as the "you started it first!" argument...

Feb 11 - PDMer hits LaFer for 300 acres, gets retaled for 550
Feb 13 - PDMer hits LaFer for 430 acres, gets retaled for 690

--- PDM lists LaF as Friend in embassy. No idea if this was communicated to LaF or not. ---

Feb 16-17 - LaF toprankers hit PDM 14 times for 5,000+ acres

I didn't see any notice anywhere of a DNH or friend or whatever with PDM... I hope it wasn't communicated or whomever was told fails :P

5000/14= 350 acres or so per hot Balin, which is a lower average than your hits on us.. Also if/when retalled they will most definitely be much larger than the hits made on you

Dont know to like this or not to like this for WoF. who cares keep the fun going LaF.

i don't care if LaF farmers people.

my gripe is when lafers whinge about being hit by war alliances, in preference to other netgainers.

If you didn't lead the way in farming, you wouldn't be first choice target for warriors ;-) ;-)

Why doesn't Omega ever get hit? because they are allied to war alliances, talk to war alliances, and don't farm small clans.. who often have influence with war alliances, share buddies, chat together in irc etc. ;-)

It's the way the game works, and it's prob LaF's biggest weakness.

Someones gotta be the leader in farming DL.

Although i'm all XP so far so can't be mad at me.

farming isn't the weakness.

Dealing with the consequences is.

i admire the fact that they can be bothered to put that much effort in tbh:p

Are these the same people that whine about LaF getting away with having too little military on their all-explore countries? Now they whine that LaF has countries that aren't all-explore and have too much military?

i think you'll find they are whining about being grabbed mate LOL!

honestly i rather war most of the time and put in solid netting alliances where you can get good land since you back your words up.

maybe i should be playing in SoF instead ;P

ahh your all good kids.

its good fun.

Just noticed insite that things are being worked out, kinda, sorta, possibly.

Poo.

The reason PDM is unhappy is we could have prepared for the inevitable (I have made a killing on this point in the round in past sets by being prepared to retal you) but since we thought we were allies we didn't feel the need to watch out for you. Sure, we grabbed LaF twice - the first time is a guy who will you see has been disregarding our embassy all round and getting reamed for it, and the other guy I contacted LaF about... PDM is clearly at fault here and definitely instigated this...

Well perhaps I'm a bit angry right now and not thinking clearly, but their "tried, tested, and true" methods of landgrabbing will lead to a tagkill if that fluff doesn't stop immediately. I have no problems cancelling the war with SoF to give you guys another beatdown. The question is, is that what you want?

We have had ZERO issues with LaF. All of a sudden we can't get in touch with LaF, can't get a pact, and are starting to get farmed. Had we not been in an arranged war we would be farming you guys right back, and that's probably why we're such nice targets.

I added your HFA and President on ICQ earlier today. Still no response. So let this be a forewarning.... anymore LGs by LaF and we'll retaliate however the fluff we want. My patience is worn thin.

couldnt have said it better myself!

By the way, where are your hits on SoF? Or are you only farming one side of this war?

Lot of people complaining here I've noticed. Seriously people are whining about being hit for 300-400 acres, when a single retal will net you more land then half the hits on your tag took total?

Sure the breaks are tough, but that is part of the game :)

K4F
WoF

Thomas, everyone knows that SoF and LaF have been close friends for awhile.

In fact, that was one of the reasons why LaF wanted to get "closer relations" with PDM -- because our general allies (SoF, Omega...etc) are similar to theirs.

I guess LaF wasn't serious about it. Looks like they just wanted a 2 set pact to protect their netting.

Next LaFer to lg me is going to eat some nukes.

No, it's not.

You blow all stock, screw up your country in order to take retals. So you're behind on techs etc, have to rebuild, while our enemy gets to grow unharmed. That presents more than
a "difficult breaks" issue.

TBH I dont have any qualms with forcing LAF into the war. *shrugs

im still at work, i can't really get on ICQ. but i'll talk to you tonight thomas.

ergh, i told you it's been a busy week :(

just so the madness will stop, i set you to DNH in our db until i can get home and talk to you guys on ICQ (this is directed to sanct and pdm)

so the hits shouldn't be there for sure, assuming they are following our embassy.

yesterday i didnt' get off work until 11PM :( hopefully today will be better. and i will work with you guys on this

Thomas I dont think anyone is grabbing Sof considering they started the set with the stance that they would kill anyone who did or somesuch. But fricking chill. Enshula or hanlong will talk to you. They are both reasonable and like working out solutions. fluff people. Just retal some of the hits -_- At least PDM got hit enough times to give cause for some complaints -_-

And I just made that point pretty clear to LaF as well. I have no issues trading an arranged war for a real war.